Tips for old leafy lake

[BankTrampBowler]

Recently joined a syndicate and the lake is about 300 years old. it’s tree lined all the way around the lake with the trees predominantly being old oaks. There is lots of leaf litter on the lake bed and quite silty to. I’ve done 3 sessions and not a single run/bite. Any bait or rig tips or just any advice would be great and really helpful.

[greekskii]

It's probably the slowest time of year for bites anywhere, maybe dont be too worried about a lack of action. Unless its rammed full of carp! 

Could just fish solid bags so you know you're presented, or rake a spot. If there is leaf litter it's unlikely the carp are feeding there, as they'd clear a spot off. Look for clear areas instead of casting on the leaf litter. 

[BankTrampBowler]

4 hours ago, greekskii said:

It's probably the slowest time of year for bites anywhere, maybe dont be too worried about a lack of action. Unless its rammed full of carp! 

Could just fish solid bags so you know you're presented, or rake a spot. If there is leaf litter it's unlikely the carp are feeding there, as they'd clear a spot off. Look for clear areas instead of casting on the leaf litter. 

i’ve had a lead about but find it hard telling the difference between a clear spot and a leafy spot. maybe i should get braid on my marker rod for maximum sensitivity and feel. 

[ouchthathurt]

Also get the marker leads with grippers and drag the spot, then reel in smartly, it should pick up leaves and give you some idea. 

[Golden Paws]

If you are worried about soft silt, get a long prodding stick and poke around in the margins. Alternatively, tie on a few foot of light coloured wool on your line and attach a heavy lead and let it sink in and see how much of the wool is discoloured. If it is quite deep, as greeksil says try a PVA bag with a lightish flat lead or a pva mesh stocking of bait on a longish supple braid on a helicopter rig rather than a lead clip.

This time of year, it's all about the windows of opportunity that arise when the temperature climbs or a low pressure system comes in. Plot where the sun is shining when it is at it's maximum and aim for that area. This time of year, shows can be pretty rare and if you don't have any previous knowledge to go on, it could be a struggle.

[BankTrampBowler]

This is all very helpful thank you so much!

[salokcinnodrog]

On 14/12/2023 at 20:08, BankTrampBowler said:

Recently joined a syndicate and the lake is about 300 years old. it’s tree lined all the way around the lake with the trees predominantly being old oaks. There is lots of leaf litter on the lake bed and quite silty to. I’ve done 3 sessions and not a single run/bite. Any bait or rig tips or just any advice would be great and really helpful.

You've picked a tough time to start fishing a lake.

 

The big question is are you sure you have found the fish?

Sounds obvious I know but no point fishing the margins if they are in the middle of the lake.

Spots to look for the fish, near snags, tree roots, maybe any rushes, dead or dying weedbeds, possibly natural food beds (bloodworm), which can be found by casting out and dragging a lead along, the grippa leads are good for this as 

@ouchthathurt mentioned.

Over leaf litter is when I pretty much stick exclusively to pop-ups, making sure I have my bait above it, although in silt I try to get my bait to the level the fish are feeding at. 

That doesn't sound like it makes sense, but carp might not feed on top of the silt, but dig into it, picking up mouthfuls of natural food. On other lakes they might feed on top of the silt, especially if its horrible stinky stuff.

Talking of stinky stuff, leaf litter I've heard can make the area more acidic, and put the fish off feeding for a while.

On my syndicate lake, the lake is a pretty consistent depth, no drop-offs other than the old stream bed, however there are some softer holes in the silt where carp have dug them out. Imagine the lake is 4feet deep, and then you suddenly drop to 5feet deep. These holes gradually fill back up, but the bottom is softer.

 

 

Those pop-ups, about the only time that I have a bait off the lake bed, normally I fish close to the lakebed, the counter weight directly below the hook, but in leaf litter I will fish with the weight a thumb or even forefinger length below the hook. 

Are you able to attract smaller silver fish and get them feeding? Their feeding might actually get the carp investigating.

For that a groundbait with very little solid food content, maybe fine ground breadcrumb, liquidised or creamed sweetcorn. 

Hookbaits, obviously try sweetcorn, maybe maggots or boilies.

Boilies: you might find in winter certain flavours work better than others. I used to do very well on Dynamite Green Zing, Solar and Nutrabaits Pineapple and N-butyric pop-ups, along with my own recipe Garlic and Spice ones.

The occasional fish in winter on my syndicate comes out on pink pop-ups.

 

I have to keep going back to it, years ago, I did a  session between Christmas and New Year. For 2 days I caught on the high attract pop-ups mentioned above (my original garlic spice) then after feeding a few of my normal food bait boilies every day, I started catching on them, ordinary bottom baits. In that week I think I ended up with 10fish, nothing massive, but any fish in freezing winds and temperatures near 2 or 3⁰ Celsius is a good fish.

The yellow and green pop-ups on the second lake worked on day trips when we hadn't got a bait established.

 

On those two waters Other pop-ups just didn't cut it! 

 

 

6 hours ago, BankTrampBowler said:

i’ve had a lead about but find it hard telling the difference between a clear spot and a leafy spot. maybe i should get braid on my marker rod for maximum sensitivity and feel. 

Braid definitely gives a better sense of feel than mono. 

[BankTrampBowler]

7 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

You've picked a tough time to start fishing a lake.

 

The big question is are you sure you have found the fish?

Sounds obvious I know but no point fishing the margins if they are in the middle of the lake.

Spots to look for the fish, near snags, tree roots, maybe any rushes, dead or dying weedbeds, possibly natural food beds (bloodworm), which can be found by casting out and dragging a lead along, the grippa leads are good for this as 

@ouchthathurt mentioned.

Over leaf litter is when I pretty much stick exclusively to pop-ups, making sure I have my bait above it, although in silt I try to get my bait to the level the fish are feeding at. 

That doesn't sound like it makes sense, but carp might not feed on top of the silt, but dig into it, picking up mouthfuls of natural food. On other lakes they might feed on top of the silt, especially if its horrible stinky stuff.

Talking of stinky stuff, leaf litter I've heard can make the area more acidic, and put the fish off feeding for a while.

On my syndicate lake, the lake is a pretty consistent depth, no drop-offs other than the old stream bed, however there are some softer holes in the silt where carp have dug them out. Imagine the lake is 4feet deep, and then you suddenly drop to 5feet deep. These holes gradually fill back up, but the bottom is softer.

 

 

Those pop-ups, about the only time that I have a bait off the lake bed, normally I fish close to the lakebed, the counter weight directly below the hook, but in leaf litter I will fish with the weight a thumb or even forefinger length below the hook. 

Are you able to attract smaller silver fish and get them feeding? Their feeding might actually get the carp investigating.

For that a groundbait with very little solid food content, maybe fine ground breadcrumb, liquidised or creamed sweetcorn. 

Hookbaits, obviously try sweetcorn, maybe maggots or boilies.

Boilies: you might find in winter certain flavours work better than others. I used to do very well on Dynamite Green Zing, Solar and Nutrabaits Pineapple and N-butyric pop-ups, along with my own recipe Garlic and Spice ones.

The occasional fish in winter on my syndicate comes out on pink pop-ups.

 

I have to keep going back to it, years ago, I did a  session between Christmas and New Year. For 2 days I caught on the high attract pop-ups mentioned above (my original garlic spice) then after feeding a few of my normal food bait boilies every day, I started catching on them, ordinary bottom baits. In that week I think I ended up with 10fish, nothing massive, but any fish in freezing winds and temperatures near 2 or 3⁰ Celsius is a good fish.

The yellow and green pop-ups on the second lake worked on day trips when we hadn't got a bait established.

 

On those two waters Other pop-ups just didn't cut it! 

 

 

Braid definitely gives a better sense of feel than mono. 

 

7 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

You've picked a tough time to start fishing a lake.

 

The big question is are you sure you have found the fish?

Sounds obvious I know but no point fishing the margins if they are in the middle of the lake.

Spots to look for the fish, near snags, tree roots, maybe any rushes, dead or dying weedbeds, possibly natural food beds (bloodworm), which can be found by casting out and dragging a lead along, the grippa leads are good for this as 

@ouchthathurt mentioned.

Over leaf litter is when I pretty much stick exclusively to pop-ups, making sure I have my bait above it, although in silt I try to get my bait to the level the fish are feeding at. 

That doesn't sound like it makes sense, but carp might not feed on top of the silt, but dig into it, picking up mouthfuls of natural food. On other lakes they might feed on top of the silt, especially if its horrible stinky stuff.

Talking of stinky stuff, leaf litter I've heard can make the area more acidic, and put the fish off feeding for a while.

On my syndicate lake, the lake is a pretty consistent depth, no drop-offs other than the old stream bed, however there are some softer holes in the silt where carp have dug them out. Imagine the lake is 4feet deep, and then you suddenly drop to 5feet deep. These holes gradually fill back up, but the bottom is softer.

 

 

Those pop-ups, about the only time that I have a bait off the lake bed, normally I fish close to the lakebed, the counter weight directly below the hook, but in leaf litter I will fish with the weight a thumb or even forefinger length below the hook. 

Are you able to attract smaller silver fish and get them feeding? Their feeding might actually get the carp investigating.

For that a groundbait with very little solid food content, maybe fine ground breadcrumb, liquidised or creamed sweetcorn. 

Hookbaits, obviously try sweetcorn, maybe maggots or boilies.

Boilies: you might find in winter certain flavours work better than others. I used to do very well on Dynamite Green Zing, Solar and Nutrabaits Pineapple and N-butyric pop-ups, along with my own recipe Garlic and Spice ones.

The occasional fish in winter on my syndicate comes out on pink pop-ups.

 

I have to keep going back to it, years ago, I did a  session between Christmas and New Year. For 2 days I caught on the high attract pop-ups mentioned above (my original garlic spice) then after feeding a few of my normal food bait boilies every day, I started catching on them, ordinary bottom baits. In that week I think I ended up with 10fish, nothing massive, but any fish in freezing winds and temperatures near 2 or 3⁰ Celsius is a good fish.

The yellow and green pop-ups on the second lake worked on day trips when we hadn't got a bait established.

 

On those two waters Other pop-ups just didn't cut it! 

 

 

Braid definitely gives a better sense of feel than mono. 

i’m not sure at all if i’ve found the fish. it’s not a highly stocked lake to be fair. i’ve not seen any fish roll or and signs of fizzing but i expect it to be quite dormant at this time of year. I’ve tried a high vis pop up but no joy, but i suppose if i’m not on the fish i’m not going to catch! i think i need to put some more work in maybe go down and spend the day and not fish, watching the water and walking around. Thanks for your reply it’s all very very helpful and has got me thinking. Anymore information you think of will be greatly appreciated.

[framey]

Chuck a helicopter out  

(Search “chod rig”)

Get down and bait a couple of days ahead to put a bit of bait out (if you can)

keep eyes open and move if you see anything

Edited December 16, 2023 by framey

[salokcinnodrog]

10 hours ago, BankTrampBowler said:

 

i’m not sure at all if i’ve found the fish. it’s not a highly stocked lake to be fair. i’ve not seen any fish roll or and signs of fizzing but i expect it to be quite dormant at this time of year. I’ve tried a high vis pop up but no joy, but i suppose if i’m not on the fish i’m not going to catch! i think i need to put some more work in maybe go down and spend the day and not fish, watching the water and walking around. Thanks for your reply it’s all very very helpful and has got me thinking. Anymore information you think of will be greatly appreciated.

As the seasons roll on into winter fishing can be really tough.

We had a wet autumn, with a couple of big storms putting a lot of cold water into the waterways.

My syndicate lake rose a metre in 12hours. That is water level, not bank space. In terms of bank space, I had to move my rods and bivvy back 5metres. The constant cold water going in from rain, flowing in off the land and inlet stream put the fish off feeding. 

I don't know the depth or size of your lake, but walking and watching may or may not show you where the fish are, it may be that you have to fish it, a different area each time.

It's so tough as so many different possibilities.

It may be that the carp have been an learnt to avoid hi-viz/hi-attract pop-ups in the obvious flavours that 'everyone' uses. They may take a washed out pink or white bait, they may prefer a food bait, or even the 'smell' created by liquidised corn, or liquids in PVA bags. It may be that silver fish feeding attracts them.

Watching the birds can be useful. Coots can suddenly surface looking flustered if they come across a big fish, it might be a pike, but it can be a carp.

Fizzing in winter is not always carp, it can be a pike hitting the lakebed or turning the bottom as it hits a fish.

2 or 3 rod limits change how you fish; you have lost or gained an option.

I'll go through my 3 rod fishing as that's what I do, but you will have to decide what to drop if you only have a 2 rod limit:

Rod 1 is fished with a washed out pink pop-up in my garlic spice combination a thumb length off the lakebed. My lake has a reputation for the occasional winter fish on washed out pink baits (not much is caught through the winter), the garlic spice is one of my favourite combinations that catches well for me on many waters.

Rod 2 is fished with my food bait (KMG) fished as a low pop-up, a Ronnie, 360 or D-rig tight to the lakebed, cast in with a PVA bag of crumbed boilie.

Rod 3 is a snowman bait, the food bait tipped with a 12mm purple Monster Crab pop-up and again in a bag.

 

I don't tend to put in any extra bait actually while I'm fishing, saving it until I leave, prebaiting for the next session a week later. (I normally fish 4day sessions).

 

 

I don't have many silver fish in my lake, so using them is not really an option for me, but baiting up with any of or a combination of maggots, liquidised sweetcorn, finely ground breadcrumb can be a way to get fish feeding.

I prefer red maggots, simple reason for me, they are the same colour as bloodworm, and in clear water, harder for those pesky coots and tufted ducks to see than white maggots. A teaspoon of mixed chilled powder and turmeric in 2pints of maggots degreases them, and adds a little attraction. 

Try to avoid oily fish meal groundbaits. Cold oils really don't release in cold water, and can take ages for the fish to digest. Lighter oils like sunflower or rapeseed may still work but don't use too much, you do want the oil 'breaking free' and coming up.

[framey]

How many acres.

how many fish?

what size fish 

what rigs are you currently using?

what type of silt is it 

 

bait…hard to actually get a bait nowadays a fish won’t actually try to suck in once…

(carp will suck in a dog end)

Edited December 16, 2023 by framey