Split, Safety and Thinking, Ronnie Rig Lead Help

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

I use a Ronnie rig with a leadclip set up, personally I will use a lead clip as often as I can, the only time I use a helicopter set up is if I need to chuck a chod into rough spots, 

I also never used to like dropping leads but now I much prefer to tbh, the lake I fish is weedy and the cost of a lead isn't worth the pain of losing a biggun (that hurts way more) 

 

I dislike the helicopter setup as bite indication can be compromised. The number of times I have watched fish move with no or minimal indication at the buzzer and indicator. 

I have seen a fish take, and the indicator did not move, the buzzer did not sound, it was only seeing the line arcing through the water that gave away that a fish was on, at only around 40metres. (Pre Delkim).

 

Even with Delkims, at around 120metres in the middle of the night, I had a 24lb mirror that bleeped a few times, which I hit. I recast, same spot, same distance, a couple of hours later had 1 bleep, no movement. In the morning the line was in a totally different angle to where I had cast it, and was running into a snag on the island. The fish had moved some 50metres.

 

Regarding your fishery rules and 'no fixed leads', I would suggest you check exactly the meaning with the bailiffs, as I do know some where no fixed leads does include lead clips, inline leads, and helicopter leads. I.e they do insist on a run ring or totally running lead.

[yonny]

3 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Regarding your fishery rules and 'no fixed leads', I would suggest you check exactly the meaning with the bailiffs, as I do know some where no fixed leads does include lead clips, inline leads, and helicopter leads. I.e they do insist on a run ring or totally running lead.

Any fishery or bailiff that considers clips/in-lines/heli's to be examples of fixed lead set ups is just stupid imo. Anyone with any experience or sense knows that a fixed lead is simply a set up that cannot ditch the lead.

[Carpbell_ll]

bailiffs lol most of them couldn't run a hook a duck stall, think they call themselves some sort of business director these days, i know there are loads of top woman anglers about today far better than me, but a water i looked at had some crazy looking doris running the membership not an angler herself and very patronising towards her members in a nice way, no thank you. 

i'm thinking of stiffening up the section of mainline my rig sits on in the heli set up ad a splice of boom about six inches long held in place with shrink tube and a cover of tubing, never heard or seen it done before so any thought would be welcome, i thinking it might improve bite detection time, or it might just fly up the mainline on the cast lol.  

[salokcinnodrog]

2 hours ago, yonny said:

Any fishery or bailiff that considers clips/in-lines/heli's to be examples of fixed lead set ups is just stupid imo. Anyone with any experience or sense knows that a fixed lead is simply a set up that cannot ditch the lead.

@yonny it was done because lead clip tail rubbers, inline leads being pushed on so tight, or even glued in place and the bad indication of helicopter rigs near snags, that the only way to stop people fishing with inappropriate setups was to make it a rule.

[yonny]

15 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

@yonny it was done because lead clip tail rubbers, inline leads being pushed on so tight, or even glued in place and the bad indication of helicopter rigs near snags, that the only way to stop people fishing with inappropriate setups was to make it a rule.

It is not the only way to stop people fishing with inappropriate setups Nick. There are countless fisheries that allow clips etc without issues.

It is counterproductive to ban decent tackle because idiots aint using it right. Ban the idiots, not the gear. We can ban whatever we want but that doesn't stop idiots from being idiots which is the root cause of the problem.

It is this mentality of banning the use of tackle and baits to fix the problem of idiots that sees fisheries ruined imo. You end up with everyone queuing up fishing running rigs on tubing with boilies because every other set up and bait is banned. But an idiot can still cast his running rig/tubing/boilie into someone else's swim or into the snags. Ergo the tackle/bait bans solve nothing.

Imo banning tackle/baits to account for idiots is just an excuse for running a lazy fishery that can't be bothered to vet members, enforce rules, or bailiff effectively.

[Carpbell_ll]

it not always down to stupidity some anglers don't know better i come up with some right daft stuff but i guarantee the safety of all fish a i catch, i mainly fish straight through anyhow my lead setups are super basic i will be using a lead clip on one rod this year the other on a heli, and if i get a third rod out it will more than likely be a solid bag re-cast every hour or so, then come the evening i will drop a boilie rig on the bag spot with the lead clip rod. all the lakes i fish are small so margin spots and snags are the norm, you know when a certain bailiff don't like you but can't fault your set ups or rig placement, you know your angling standards are above par. good enough for me. 

[yonny]

22 minutes ago, Carpbell_ll said:

it not always down to stupidity some anglers don't know better

That's where vetting members, enforcing rules, and bailiffing effectively comes in to play.

Tbh not knowing any better is no excuse for unsafe rigs these days imo. There has never been so much info relating to safety available, it's all right there at the tips of our fingers for anyone that can be bothered to look. But the fishery has to stand up and take some responsibility too. Banning everything so you don't have to look after the membership is not a healthy way to run a fishery.

[salokcinnodrog]

15 hours ago, yonny said:

That's where vetting members, enforcing rules, and bailiffing effectively comes in to play.

Tbh not knowing any better is no excuse for unsafe rigs these days imo. There has never been so much info relating to safety available, it's all right there at the tips of our fingers for anyone that can be bothered to look. But the fishery has to stand up and take some responsibility too. Banning everything so you don't have to look after the membership is not a healthy way to run a fishery.

@yonny I would love to agree with you, but sometimes you have to remove the idiot factor, if this means roping off the snags or banning the lead clip and having rig checks...

 

Personally I don't like lead clips, but that is me. They jam up with weed, which itself can stop the tail rubber coming off.

Despite having to use helicopter setups at times, I don't like them either, much preferring to use run rings or inline leads.

 

 

I do fish to snags at times, and try to consider even the hooklink. I want a hooklink that won't stretch and abrade like mono or fluorocarbon, preferring coated braid, and I sit on my rods, figuratively, not literally, 😆. 

 

@Bruce

Many anglers get confused and kerfuffled in the world of rigs and bait, with both, try to keep it simple, find the fish first, put your rig where they will take your bait. 

Rigs get fashionable, get forgotten, then make a rebirth with a rebranding, yet while that rig catches fish, normally so will any other, in the right place.

Years ago I fished Trimley lakes near Felixstowe, the lake had never produced a 'big' fish, biggest caught being 16lbs.

I cast out a simple braided pop-up rig, on Merlin braid, Trigga pop-up, the pop-up height being the height just above the leaf litter, a piece of putty moulded around a power gum stop knot.

.

I caught 2 fish in the 'quiet time', middle of the day, a cracking 16lb mirror and even better the lakes first 20lb carp.

Even betterer than that, it was from Welders favourite feature, the margin corner to my right.

Simple rig! Simple fishing!

 

I really must find those pics to look at those fish again!

 

 

 

[yonny]

13 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

@yonny I would love to agree with you, but sometimes you have to remove the idiot factor, if this means roping off the snags or banning the lead clip and having rig checks...

See for me the ability to adapt to various angling situations is what makes an angler an angler. Take this away and it's no longer angling. It's just guys queuing up to take their turn to chuck the same rig at the same piece of water. There is no challenge, skill or excitement in doing that.

Although I agree that rig checks are acceptable. Rules should be policed or there's no point having them.

[salokcinnodrog]

16 minutes ago, yonny said:

See for me the ability to adapt to various angling situations is what makes an angler an angler. Take this away and it's no longer angling. It's just guys queuing up to take their turn to chuck the same rig at the same piece of water. There is no challenge, skill or excitement in doing that.

Although I agree that rig checks are acceptable. Rules should be policed or there's no point having them.

@yonny

I think I'm going to split our discussion from this Ronnie rig thread, it's become an interesting topic in its own right.

I do agree with you, but sadly it seems we are bringing up a generation of non thinking, parrot fashion learning, even sheep. That is not just fishing, but all over.

Anglers copy Korda (choose any tackle brand) vids, rigs, rods, reels, even baiting up with spod mix etc,  but there is no thinking behind it.

 

You can see the queue for swims, "that swim produced, I'll fish there", the swim saving for mates, the identical angling from water to water.

I keep going back to Brackens, but almost everyone fishing it fished the same; rigs, (lack of) baiting (a sneaky catty pouch), semi fixed leads on leadclips. It took a different approach to catch consistently and regularly.

I do prefer to keep it simple, why tie a super complicated rig when something basic and simple will work?

Why fish the same spots as everyone else?

 

Most of us, I guess, probably fish high stock waters, where that fashionable rig will catch anyway. It catches, (for now) why change? 

3months later the next fashionable rig is publicised in Carpology, everyone turns to the Far side and uses that.

 

Baiting up is the same, in with DF's Spod mix, chuck 2 or 3 rods on top of it, fish queuing up to be caught on that high stock lake. 

Have baits progressed or regressed?

Particles, OK, can't change them, but boilies?

I know fishmeal is in short supply, or high priced, yet we have come away from food source baits back to instant attraction, dosed up to the nines in hydrolysates.

There are alternatives to fishmeal that provide all the required nutritional amino acids. I miss the DT baits, his chicken meal was a very good alternative.

Tails up, Liver Meal mixed with birdfood, semolina and maize meal.

The Biollix, beef meal.

 

Everyone is chucking in the same bait, just mixed with a different soak to the same spot.

 

 

 

 

[yonny]

31 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

sadly it seems we are bringing up a generation of non thinking, parrot fashion learning, even sheep.

Is this not a byproduct of fisheries banning the creative tactics that can by employed by using different tackle and baits? If we ban such tackle and baits because we can't be bothered to ensure our fishery members understand basic carp safety then of course we end up with non-thinking parrot/sheep. We're taking away the opportunity to think creatively and innovatively by banning everything, so what do we end up with.... anglers that do not think.

Lead clips, braid, nuts, maggots, barbed hooks, lead core, home prepared particles, in-lines etc etc....... all fantastic and completely safe when used properly but no, lets just ban the lot so we can let any old idiot on the lake, charge them 25 quid and let them run rife. It makes no sense whatsoever. Ban the idiots, not the gear.

Edited March 8, 2022 by yonny

[Carpbell_ll]

The nearest i have come to fishing a run rig is with inlines that come off the sleeve, it's not good in weedy water or at least i don't like it too many balls of weed on the line 10 foot in front of the fish  that was on pine pool, i have found the heli works best in weed the line is better bow string tight and that looks awful.

Always thought running rigs were for clear areas? 

[Carpbell_ll]

Novice carp angler run from weedy lakes that's why they are getting hard to find i'm not a fan of that blue lake dye it makes the angling more difficult, plus i cracked a joke or two about the portaloo leaking also tried a spool of blue fluro, that got a real dirty look even i swapped the spool back, it did work though.

[Carpbell_ll]

I know it not a angling analogy but if you look at the attitude in this country to products on the black market you will see that a total ban cause more problems than the product itself when in a legal environment, most people in holland don't like Amsterdam, i don't like Amsterdam been once as an adult found real boring, but it does work. total bans don't do much to solve a problem just means society can blame an individual person thinking they have solved the issue by punishing the transgressor, it is a leftover from victorian era policing. 

[yonny]

4 minutes ago, Carpbell_ll said:

I know it not a angling analogy but if you look at the attitude in this country to products on the black market you will see that a total ban cause more problems than the product itself when in a legal environment, most people in holland don't like Amsterdam, i don't like Amsterdam been once as an adult found real boring, but it does work. total bans don't do much to solve a problem just means society can blame an individual person thinking they have solved the issue by punishing the transgressor, it is a leftover from victorian era policing. 

Exactly my point sir!

[salokcinnodrog]

On 07/03/2022 at 18:40, salokcinnodrog said:

On 07/03/2022 at 14:48, yonny said:

Expand  

@yonny I would love to agree with you, but sometimes you have to remove the idiot factor, if this means roping off the snags or banning the lead clip and having rig checks...

 

Personally I don't like lead clips, but that is me. They jam up with weed, which itself can stop the tail rubber coming off.

Despite having to use helicopter setups at times, I don't like them either, much preferring to use run rings or inline leads.

@yonny

Here's my point exactly, I've just retrieved this from the lake, the lead clip rubber was jammed on by weed. I can only think birdlife has removed the real bait.

Around 450mm of tungsten tubing, 4oz Fox lead, Korda hybrid lead clip, curved shank size 4(?) Ronnie/Spinner rig on coated braid.

You (generally not personally) can effectively only use leadclips especially with tubing on weed free lakes, otherwise go back to run rings.

[yonny]

On 11/08/2022 at 13:36, salokcinnodrog said:

The lead clip rubber was jammed on by weed.

Based on the bulging tail rubber I'd say the user has jammed it on. User error imo. Absolutely agree with you that this set-up is no good for weedy situations. That lead should have been gone on the take.

[salokcinnodrog]

On 08/03/2022 at 09:47, yonny said:

Is this not a byproduct of fisheries banning the creative tactics that can by employed by using different tackle and baits? If we ban such tackle and baits because we can't be bothered to ensure our fishery members understand basic carp safety then of course we end up with non-thinking parrot/sheep. We're taking away the opportunity to think creatively and innovatively by banning everything, so what do we end up with.... anglers that do not think.

Lead clips, braid, nuts, maggots, barbed hooks, lead core, home prepared particles, in-lines etc etc....... all fantastic and completely safe when used properly but no, lets just ban the lot so we can let any old idiot on the lake, charge them 25 quid and let them run rife. It makes no sense whatsoever. Ban the idiots, not the gear.

I don't think that it is Mate.

I think that used in the right situations, original ideas are brilliant, but we take that original idea, copy it and use it absolutely everywhere, but in many cases where that set-up is not suitable.

I'm not extolling it's use, but Terry Hearn and leadcore on Yateley, for a particular purpose, now used in every situation without thought.

You can go back further, the Bent Hook rig, invented specifically for very big spooky Longfield fish I think, went everywhere and caused damage and mayhem.

 

The thinking anglers are few and far between. There are very few articles in Carpology or on Carpfeed that are original, no matter whether about a water, a fish or anything. It is as if almost every article could be written by the same person.

This non-thinking is a product of today's world, not just angling, but society wide.

 

Let's for example say I fish a 45 acre lake, stock level of 50lb of carp per acre. To catch in that I really have to think. Do I become creative or do I just copy 'bait and wait'?

Bait and wait doesn't work, what next?

Many anglers fish the same old waters, you could be on the same water in Essex as in Somerset, only the scenery is different. That's club or day ticket, overstocked with carp...

[salokcinnodrog]

I  just had to go wading to retrieve this after it caught up my Spomb. It was snagged up to a bundle of weed.

Leadcore with a Korda heli-safe at the end, a mono or fluoro Ronnie rig caught up a kink.

I'll bin it and keep the lead.

We have lost 'thinking' anglers.

How many times have I ranted at people using leadcore in weed. Any time the weed, even though it will easily pull free like below, leadcore is a NO NO.

Even in that weed, I am still likely to have to go out in chest waders or a boat if a fish gets into it. Leadcore just snags up and makes the whole lot immovable.

[Carpbell3]

That's a long strip of lead core, have been thinking if adding a 12 inch bit to my set up on a bottom bait rod just enough to take the top bead at the join there is that much mess on the lake bottom I would like something that sinks in as opposed to riding over any lumpy bits of chod.

 

[Carpbell3]

Did once or twice ponder shrink tubing a length of core alongside the mainline just 10 inches or so.

[salokcinnodrog]

On 25/10/2022 at 17:00, Carpbell3 said:

That's a long strip of lead core, have been thinking if adding a 12 inch bit to my set up on a bottom bait rod just enough to take the top bead at the join there is that much mess on the lake bottom I would like something that sinks in as opposed to riding over any lumpy bits of chod.

 

Around a metre, or 3feet, of leadcore.

I've had more fish with totally slack mainline and running leads on mono or fluorocarbon than with anything tight, and at short ranges on this lake.

Only one fish came from anything like distance, at about 100metres, when the weed hadn't come up in April time, and I was using 30lb Amnesia with a 3.5oz lead and a homemade helicopter setup, 2 beads at either length of a short section of tubing with the rig swivel in between.

Everything else fish wise for myself and others is at short range, less than 40metres, even when the weed hasn't grown up.