Constant mouth bleed from hook ups - advice

[maccadinho25]

Hi all,

Had good advice from people on here before and looking for the same again if possible to put my mind at rest!

I dont fish waters with big carp that im aware of but im planning on finding them however in the meantime i appear to be ending up with nearly every fish i land having a very blooming mouth from my hook and i dont know why this is happening - its really putting me off as i hate damaging and potentially hurting anything i catch!

In the last day for example i have hooked a small 5lb ish carp with a bleeding mouth and today at a new pool a couple of pound goldfish (!) and a decent size crucian both on my carp rod with pop up fake corn and their mouths were bad, the goldfish especially. As the goldfish was bad i hardly played the crucian when i realised it wasnt a big carp as i thought id may be been to harsh but the damage was there again. 

I thought maybe im set up way to strong for what im catching but i dont rag the fish in at all - does anybody have any ideas why i may be experiencing this so much of late? Could it be something like a blunted hook?

My set up never really changes so may seem over the top but covers most the pools i fish - i have 9ft 2.75ln test curve rods, 15lb mainline and im using korda dark matter heli leader with a 2oz lead and a coated hooklink which is 15lb and a size 10 barbless hook hair rigged.

If anything jumps out please let me know, the fish have all been hooked in the bottom lip but i guess it could be the hooklink cutting into them? Any thoughts appreciated as whilst the fish im currently catching arent massive id like to keep them healthy! (all swam away strongly). Thanks

Edited April 4, 2021 by maccadinho25

[bluelabel]

Small carp have much softer mouths and are more susceptible to damage... if the fish don't go over 20lbs in the water I'd consider a softer rod and lighter line... the thing with using a 15lb mainline is with small carp you tend to get em in quick so the damage could be occurring at that point... and if, as I said, the fish don't grow much over mid double size then I'd say that a 2.75lb rod is a bit heavy... I'm sure other lads will have their own theories... but thats mine for what its worth

[ouchthathurt]

Have you seen any evidence of the barbless hook moving during the fight? 15lb mainline and a size 10 seems a bit unbalanced, have you tried upping the hook size? The thicker wire may help spread the load as it were. Are you aiming solely for carp? Or are you just happy with whatever comes along? If that was the case, I’d probably go down the Avon/quivertip route or a float outfit with lighter line and smaller hooks. If I was aiming for solely carp, I’d increase hook size to an 8 or 6 and use baits that smaller species can’t easily take. 
 

do you use any form of clinic or carp antiseptic solution on your hook marks before returning them? This is important regardless of size as it can help heal marks like these and prevent infection. Some also harden on contact with water, so will help minimise bleeding. 

[framey]

40 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

Small carp have much softer mouths and are more susceptible to damage... if the fish don't go over 20lbs in the water I'd consider a softer rod and lighter line... the thing with using a 15lb mainline is with small carp you tend to get em in quick so the damage could be occurring at that point... and if, as I said, the fish don't grow much over mid double size then I'd say that a 2.75lb rod is a bit heavy... I'm sure other lads will have their own theories... but thats mine for what its worth

I believe the action of the rod is more in keeping of it rather than the test curve

I would up the size of the hook personally I couldn’t even see a size 10 nowadays lol

[salokcinnodrog]

7 hours ago, maccadinho25 said:

Hi all,

Had good advice from people on here before and looking for the same again if possible to put my mind at rest!

I dont fish waters with big carp that im aware of but im planning on finding them however in the meantime i appear to be ending up with nearly every fish i land having a very blooming mouth from my hook and i dont know why this is happening - its really putting me off as i hate damaging and potentially hurting anything i catch!

In the last day for example i have hooked a small 5lb ish carp with a bleeding mouth and today at a new pool a couple of pound goldfish (!) and a decent size crucian both on my carp rod with pop up fake corn and their mouths were bad, the goldfish especially. As the goldfish was bad i hardly played the crucian when i realised it wasnt a big carp as i thought id may be been to harsh but the damage was there again. 

I thought maybe im set up way to strong for what im catching but i dont rag the fish in at all - does anybody have any ideas why i may be experiencing this so much of late? Could it be something like a blunted hook?

My set up never really changes so may seem over the top but covers most the pools i fish - i have 9ft 2.75ln test curve rods, 15lb mainline and im using korda dark matter heli leader with a 2oz lead and a coated hooklink which is 15lb and a size 10 barbless hook hair rigged.

If anything jumps out please let me know, the fish have all been hooked in the bottom lip but i guess it could be the hooklink cutting into them? Any thoughts appreciated as whilst the fish im currently catching arent massive id like to keep them healthy! (all swam away strongly). Thanks

I must admit I would only be using Specialist or Avon style rods on a water like this, with 8lb line. 

 

Hook size sounds possibly a bit big, for me it would probably be a 14 or 12.

[Carpbell_ll]

Sometimes smaller fish take a a hook too far back in the mouth, on waters with a stock of fish up to the 10lb mark  it's a rod in hand job hitting bites before they hook themselves might want to avoid using a hair rig if you are.

[framey]

Re read this and seeing the fish you are catching I would go down to a method feeder rod or float rod or like Nick has suggested an Avon style if you can find one nowadays 

Match style route would be better 

[maccadinho25]

Thanks all, good to get different suggestions. I am aiming for doubles and up and the fish yesterday in particular were not expected to say the least! I do use a float rod too and yesterday caught an 8lb mirror on a size 18 hook on it 🙄

I think I've picked the other species up and more smaller carp when I downsized the pop ups I used in winter so as mentioned I may increase this and get a spool of lighter line set up. There are bigger fish in the waters I fish I just haven't found any yet. Saying they a few weeks back a smallish orfe took my pop up with the set up above and there was no damage at all.

Will have a think, thanks.

Edit: yes I have a carp care spray etc so all fish are treated and rested before return to ensure they go strongly

Edited April 4, 2021 by maccadinho25

[maccadinho25]

Sorry for the double post.

After just checking the korda dark matter leaders I can see they're a 30lb breaking strain 😲 I used them when getting back into fishing for ease however they're so strong it may be a good place to start in dropping these and fishing naked? 

[ouchthathurt]

Well my leadcore leaders are 40-50lb breaking strain, but my mainline is 12lb, so that’s the overall breaking strain of my set up. I couldn’t apply 50lb of pressure as although the leadcore (correctly spliced) could take it, the mainline would part long before! I wouldn’t worry about the leader breaking strain too much mate, the over all strength of your set up is governed by the weakest component. 

[salokcinnodrog]

4 hours ago, maccadinho25 said:

Thanks all, good to get different suggestions. I am aiming for doubles and up and the fish yesterday in particular were not expected to say the least! I do use a float rod too and yesterday caught an 8lb mirror on a size 18 hook on it 🙄

I think I've picked the other species up and more smaller carp when I downsized the pop ups I used in winter so as mentioned I may increase this and get a spool of lighter line set up. There are bigger fish in the waters I fish I just haven't found any yet. Saying they a few weeks back a smallish orfe took my pop up with the set up above and there was no damage at all.

Will have a think, thanks.

Edit: yes I have a carp care spray etc so all fish are treated and rested before return to ensure they go strongly

A water I fish for carp to double figures, I still concentrate on fishing the float with sweetcorn and lift float. 

 

If you put in much groundbait, you get other species more than carp so I use loose fed sweetcorn. 

 

On occasion I do use pop-ups I don't put any, or very little, feed around them. In fact I almost fish them zig rig style, well off the bottom. 

 

[maccadinho25]

8 hours ago, ouchthathurt said:

Well my leadcore leaders are 40-50lb breaking strain, but my mainline is 12lb, so that’s the overall breaking strain of my set up. I couldn’t apply 50lb of pressure as although the leadcore (correctly spliced) could take it, the mainline would part long before! I wouldn’t worry about the leader breaking strain too much mate, the over all strength of your set up is governed by the weakest component. 

Fair point!

Whats strange is the rods im using now are modern, brand new and have much more give than my last rods which were 20 year old 3lb test curve broom handles and ive caught small carp on those for years without ever experiencing the level of damage im seeing now.

Ill try upping the hook size and go back to a a bigger bait than the 10mm pop ups that have been very successful recently and see how i go and make other adjustments if i dont see an improvement. Im also looking to try different pools with less stock and a bigger size as we go through the year so maybe ill see a natural improvement.

Thanks for all your comments and i appreciate that no one has talked to me like a child which ive certainly found in other places when you ask for advice to improve yourself!

[ouchthathurt]

I know what you mean, my first carp rods were 1 3/4lb t/c and 11ft long, I moved onto 11ft 2lb test rods that bent through to the butt cap. Back then, a 3lb rod was a broomstick! Now, 3lb test is about normal! My rods are fox torque, 12ft 3lb test rods that have a lovely action. If this is a recent problem you’ve been having, (I’m guessing since you fined down for winter?) then that would suggest to me that you may need to adjust your end tackle to filter out the other species if carp are the intended target pal. 
 

I'm glad you’re finding the forum helpful mate, don’t be afraid to ask questions on here, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people that will help and we learn through asking questions! We all have areas of angling that we are perhaps “weaker” at, I am probably the worst zig rig angler going! Lol! 

[bluelabel]

As a general rule of thumb, if the fish only run to doubles, I use stepped up match gear... over 20lb I use proper carp gear... fishing a lighter softer rod will alleviate any damage in smaller fish... plenty of stepped up match rods, float or feeder, that are perfectly capable of landing doubles.... 3000 for float and 4000 size reels for feeder is plenty for carp up to mid doubles

[salokcinnodrog]

12 hours ago, maccadinho25 said:

Fair point!

Whats strange is the rods im using now are modern, brand new and have much more give than my last rods which were 20 year old 3lb test curve broom handles and ive caught small carp on those for years without ever experiencing the level of damage im seeing now.

Ill try upping the hook size and go back to a a bigger bait than the 10mm pop ups that have been very successful recently and see how i go and make other adjustments if i dont see an improvement. Im also looking to try different pools with less stock and a bigger size as we go through the year so maybe ill see a natural improvement.

Thanks for all your comments and i appreciate that no one has talked to me like a child which ive certainly found in other places when you ask for advice to improve yourself!

Always nice to receive thanks for advice and opinions. 

Something else that may be relevant is the lake bed, if much of it is silty, the fish that feed regularly over silt may possibly have softer mouths than gravel bottom feeders.