Hookpulls and how to cure them

[elmoputney]

Hi guys thought I would start a thread about hook pulls and see if I can't learn something about why they occur, 

I've been having a few lately on 2 rigs both using bait screws, I wonder if this may be leaving the hookbait too close to the shank and whether a longer gap may solve this, I've had a lot more takes on wafters but have had a couple of hookpulls on pop ups and wafters 

I think a lot of the carp in this lake have big overslung hoover mouths so I really think that is why I get more takes on the wafter as I don't think they are tipping more feeding almost flat to the deck 

I'm using a semi stiff coated hooklink kind of like a German rig at the moment with a baitscrew with a piece  of shrink tube to help it turn, 

I know what I am going to try next and that is a bait screw with a swivel attached, that will push the hookbait slightly further and also allow it to swivel, I'm only changing 1 thing at a time 😁

If anyone else wants to post up any rig woes, I don't want this to just be about my rigs but more a general problem solving thread that may help anyone 

[yonny]

Sometimes they just happen, we can't land them all.

That said, you do seem to be having an abnormal ratio of losses.

18 hours ago, elmoputney said:

a bait screw with a swivel attached, that will push the hookbait slightly further and also allow it to swivel

Defo worth a try mate.

What is key to you is what the hook holds were like on the fish you landed. they should be able to tell you a great deal. Did you have a look?

[elmoputney]

45 minutes ago, yonny said:

Sometimes they just happen, we can't land them all.

That said, you do seem to be having an abnormal ratio of losses.

Defo worth a try mate.

What is key to you is what the hook holds were like on the fish you landed. they should be able to tell you a great deal. Did you have a look?

Hook holds have usually been quite good, when I've got them in tbh,mainly bottom lip somewhere,and if I land them they are usually OK, I think it's one of four things

 Fishing locked up and having to bully them a bit from the off I usually walk back to help this , 

using an inline and not dropping it,

the bait screw, 

Hooks blunting maybe could try a beaked point, or always use a mesh bag to soften the fall through the water, my lead does land with a crack these days 😂

 

[fangus15]

Iv had a few hook pulls. I changed leads style hair length. 

What it was hook type and sharpness. I do drop off heavy leads now.circle or curved type hooks stay in better as all my waters are barbless. 

 

[yonny]

12 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Fishing locked up and having to bully them a bit from the off I usually walk back to help this , 

I find fishing locked up leads to better hook holds tbh mate.

12 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

using an inline and not dropping it,

Are you losing them in the weed? Or are they just dropping off?

13 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Hooks blunting maybe could try a beaked point, or always use a mesh bag to soften the fall through the water, my lead does land with a crack these days 😂

I have honestly never had an issue with hooks blunting on gravel (and I've been using sharpened hooks for many, many years. I would suspect your hooks are being damaged during the fight which is completely normal imo.

[elmoputney]

4 minutes ago, yonny said:

I find fishing locked up leads to better hook holds tbh mate.

Are you losing them in the weed? Or are they just dropping off?

I have honestly never had an issue with hooks blunting on gravel (and I've been using sharpened hooks for many, many years. I would suspect your hooks are being damaged during the fight which is completely normal imo.

That's one off the list then it wasn't my main concern tbh I don't think I give it excessive force 

I lost one in the pads bit slow getting to the rod that time though my mozzie mesh wouldn't let me out quick enough, but mainly dropping off once I'm in the safer area, they do fight hard and go for anything that could make life tougher, but very strange times they've pulled out tbh 

I noticed one yesterday came in burred over, that was on a wafter rig though,I do get more bites on those  😬

[yonny]

7 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

mainly dropping off once I'm in the safer area

Agree mate, that's a bit strange. You'd expect to lose them on the initial battle against the pads/weed if the hook hold was poor.

Let us know if your rig modification works buddy.

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, yonny said:

Agree mate, that's a bit strange. You'd expect to lose them on the initial battle against the pads/weed if the hook hold was poor.

Let us know if your rig modification works buddy.

Thanks

I may try 2 mods next time switch to leadclips, 4 oz leads and use the longer bait screw, only been using 3oz leads lately 

[yonny]

8 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

switch to leadclips

I don't think that will achieve anything.

One change at a time bro.

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, yonny said:

I don't think that will achieve anything.

One change at a time bro.

My thoughts were just ditching the lead may help as the inlines can sneak up the line I'm mot ditching those tbh they are fox ones 😁

[yonny]

2 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

My thoughts were just ditching the lead

I see. If you were struggling with the weed I'd maybe agree, but since you're not I'm not sure that is the answer.

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, yonny said:

I see. If you were struggling with the weed I'd maybe agree, but since you're not I'm not sure that is the answer.

I've just had a play and made a new rig with the swivel bait screw I also had a play in water and noticed it didn't always turn quick enough or the right way, so I am going to strip the end of the rig so it turns quicker maybe even just do that first, you almost need a pop up to hold up the swivel screw anyway, the wafters I am using are buoyant enough but I'm not convinced using one on the wafter rig is a great idea will probably Improve the pop up rig though so first stage is stripping some coating off its probably what it needs anyway tbh 

 

[emmcee]

Do the fish have hard or soft mouths? If you get burred over hook points I'd say hard mouths, maybe they've toughened up due to feeding over gravel. What hook size are you using? 

I fished a lake many years ago, suffered hook pulls, burred points. Switched from my size 4 straight point hooks to beaked point hooks. After trials I ended up with size 10 beak points and if I recall only had 2 more hook pulls from over 100 fish. 

[framey]

My last 3 slip ups ups 

changed to lead clips from helicopters 

gone from 9” Ronnie booms to around 5

hook size 5 trighammers from curves lol

 

 

[elmoputney]

2 hours ago, emmcee said:

Do the fish have hard or soft mouths? If you get burred over hook points I'd say hard mouths, maybe they've toughened up due to feeding over gravel. What hook size are you using? 

I fished a lake many years ago, suffered hook pulls, burred points. Switched from my size 4 straight point hooks to beaked point hooks. After trials I ended up with size 10 beak points and if I recall only had 2 more hook pulls from over 100 fish. 

I wouldn't say they are hard but I wouldn't say soft either lol, quite often really overslung mouths with long barbules but I guess some of the bigger older ones maybe have seen a few battles in there time so maybe harder, but on the whole they are in pretty good nick, I think they don't need to fully tilt and maybe able to feed fairly flat to the bottom usually 

 I'm using a size 4 curve mainly at present there are a lot of nuisance fish and the spot is quite firm now so I think it's probably being picked up and moved quite often, might just have been some unlucky pick ups , I do perhaps think that using a stripped back section will help it turn, which may improve the hook hold and hopefully rule it out, maybe, 😂

Cheers guys for the replies certainly lots to think about 👍🍺🍻

 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, framey said:

My last 3 slip ups ups 

changed to lead clips from helicopters 

gone from 9” Ronnie booms to around 5

hook size 5 trighammers from curves lol

 

 

I found out by accident there is a lot of flex in the smaller sized trig hammers, I was tightening a knot down and it opened up quite a lot almost like it had a potential weak spot, 

 

[Pete Springate's Guns]

17 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I found out by accident there is a lot of flex in the smaller sized trig hammers, I was tightening a knot down and it opened up quite a lot almost like it had a potential weak spot, 

 

That’s interesting. I do like the look of the Trigs. The shape and shank look great for wafters/balanced bottom baits but I do have my reservations about their strength-they appear quite light gauge for size/gape. Not actually used them yet-been using pop ups on hinges with my favourite Conti size 4s. 
Wouldn’t be happy to risk a ‘flexi’ hook in demanding conditions/big fish.

[yonny]

4 minutes ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

Wouldn’t be happy to risk a ‘flexi’ hook in demanding conditions/big fish.

Lads, a hook is essentially a very stiff spring (they're made from high carbon spring steel). They need to flex to absorb the forces loaded during the fight. If they didn't flex, they would snap. Flexing is absolutely critical to any hook. Without it they cannot absorb the load/force.

[Pete Springate's Guns]

42 minutes ago, yonny said:

Lads, a hook is essentially a very stiff spring (they're made from high carbon spring steel). They need to flex to absorb the forces loaded during the fight. If they didn't flex, they would snap. Flexing is absolutely critical to any hook. Without it they cannot absorb the load/force.

Agreed. But surely too much flex must impact the security of the hookhold? i.e. a hook ‘opens’ momentarily due to a powerful, lunging fish and the hook slips/pulls?

[yonny]

4 minutes ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

surely too much flex must impact the security of the hookhold?

Nah, you'll only struggle when the yield strength is exceeded. Then the hook straightens. But that's almost impossible unless you have a dodgy hook hold (so force isn't loaded as intended) or if there is a quality problem with the hook (or more specifically the hardness of the steel).

I work in this field (metal forming and treatment), trust me, they're fine mate.

[yonny]

Just now, yonny said:

a dodgy hook hold (so force isn't loaded as intended)

This is the reason hooks snap as well as open up, in 99% of cases.

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

That’s interesting. I do like the look of the Trigs. The shape and shank look great for wafters/balanced bottom baits but I do have my reservations about their strength-they appear quite light gauge for size/gape. Not actually used them yet-been using pop ups on hinges with my favourite Conti size 4s. 
Wouldn’t be happy to risk a ‘flexi’ hook in demanding conditions/big fish.

I have caught fish on them and they have been fine, and the way yonny explained it actually made me think it might not be such a bad thing to have some flex as it could almost act like a shock absorber when the fish lunges , I think it would take quite a lot of force to straighten one out, but I have never noticed a hook do that before so maybe that was why it puzzled me and made me worry a bit 

Edited September 15, 2020 by elmoputney

[framey]

When I used to tie flies we were taught to ping the hook in the vice before tying on them 

if it sounded dull throw the hook away and don’t waste time 

they were always the weak ones and it surprising how many are weak when you ping them

[framey]

And I always ping carp hooks in a sharpening vice lol

[elmoputney]

6 minutes ago, framey said:

And I always ping carp hooks in a sharpening vice lol

Can you get them to sound like this though 😁

https://youtu.be/VDnio2axqNI