Tighter fit Inline Leads

[Simon KG]

When fishing inline leads I find that they loosen from the swivel a bit too easily. Do any of you have any tip for tightening the fit? I feel that I'm not using the full weight of the lead as a bolt resistance and it also messes up the indication a bit and might let fish swim inside heavy weed with little movement on the bobbins. 
I use Kordas flat pear. 

[elmoputney]

Have a look at the fox tadpole insert set up, perfect for inlines and PVA bags, they have a ridge on them so initially they stay on, but will easily detach when playing a fish so they are safe to use, the swivel always stays put btw the lead detaches from the insert, 

I use fox leads with these haven't tried Korda inlines so may be worth checking they fit, you also have to remove the original insert 👍

 

[salokcinnodrog]

6 hours ago, Simon KG said:

When fishing inline leads I find that they loosen from the swivel a bit too easily. Do any of you have any tip for tightening the fit? I feel that I'm not using the full weight of the lead as a bolt resistance and it also messes up the indication a bit and might let fish swim inside heavy weed with little movement on the bobbins. 
I use Kordas flat pear. 

I would play around with inline leads, and found that rubber tulip beads would hold better than the Korda insert. A couple of manufacturers rubber buffer beads also hold inside the lead.

 

I did go through a stage of neoprene sleeving on the (original) Korda stiff plastic insert to hold onto the swivel.

 

This is a rubber tulip bead in an inline lead. Think that holds pretty well, I'm lifting the lead up myself from the worktop.

[Carpmaster]

I use the fox inline pear and chop the incert just behind the thick bit place the swivel which I find a better fit than korda leads into the thick cut piece run the leader or line over the top in the groove rubber sleeve on the end good to go drop the lead on a take but take a very substantial cast etc

[elmoputney]

This is the tadpole bag insert, I just use a std size 8 bank tackle ring swivel with it, 9/10 the lead discharges before the swivel, I did try a few but this one was the best I found, it just works everytime 

 

[Simon KG]

Ok I think I will try and look up different inserts then. Ideally I don't want either the lead or the insert to loosen "too easily" from the swivel cause that makes it harder when near weed. 

[carpepecheur]

Actually there is a very good case for a looser fitting swivel in an inline lead. It was discussed on this forum here:-

 

 

[Simon KG]

30 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

Actually there is a very good case for a looser fitting swivel in an inline lead. It was discussed on this forum here:-

 

 

Not if fished in or close to weed though (same with a real running rig) cause then the lead distancing from the fish becomes a big problem. I started fishing run rigs last year on clear gravel patches and I love that where it's possible. But since I fish for fishes with hard mouth I need as much instant bolting effect as possible and then the lead can't discharge on every take because then the weight of the lead won't be fully utilized as a resistance when the fish gets pricked by the hook. At the moment I have leads loosen from the swivel on failed takes and that means the rig won't fish as a fixed bolt rig afterwards. Not acceptable for me

[carpepecheur]

So do I understand you correctly Simon, in that you are saying that when a fish goes into the weed, you want the lead to be tight enough not to be released? Also you don't want the lead to slide down the line (discharge?) when playing a fish.

Edited August 5, 2020 by carpepecheur

[framey]

You “could“ add a piece of shrink tube To the existing that will make it tighter 

[Simon KG]

Ideally I want the lead to stick to the swivel unless line cracks but that is likely hard to achieve. It's just too easy to remove it as it is at the moment.

[framey]

I found the avid bag stems fall out too easy and the above is how I overcame it just enough

[elmoputney]

2 hours ago, Simon KG said:

Ideally I want the lead to stick to the swivel unless line cracks but that is likely hard to achieve. It's just too easy to remove it as it is at the moment.

The tadpole set up shouldn't detach unless you get a take think about it that ridge will be pulled right Into the lead when casting from the weight of the lead and will only come out when the rig is pulled, if I don't get a take they usually don't detach, I have caught about 15 carp and some tench this year using this set up so I am pretty confident it works as I want it too 👍

[carpepecheur]

No for the first time in my life, I find myself at odds with many others.

The purpose of a semi fixed lead is to provide a safe rig in the event of a crack off or when pulling for a break in snags. By increasing the pressure required to release it, surely you are making your rig less safe? If a double figure carp takes your bait, I am sure it will have little trouble shifting even the stiffest semi fixed lead. However, on two occasions I have caught a 6-inch carp on a 20mm boilie, even though the boilie was too big to fit inside its mouth. That 6-inch carp could grow up to be a record breaker. It would be a shame to expose it to such a dangerous rig so early in its life.

Another problem with a semi fixed lead is that if a small fish takes the bait but is too small to shift the weight, it just hangs there without you knowing thus preventing you catching something larger. When using a free running lead, you will detect even small fish movements but you lose the bolt effect of the lead. This is where the technique described in the video that Highy posted is so interesting. You can have a bolt effect and a free running lead. I intend improving on it by using a Fox COG lead and then adding a collar to turn it into an ACTIVE bolt lead.

[Simon KG]

1 hour ago, carpepecheur said:

No for the first time in my life, I find myself at odds with many others.

The purpose of a semi fixed lead is to provide a safe rig in the event of a crack off or when pulling for a break in snags. By increasing the pressure required to release it, surely you are making your rig less safe? If a double figure carp takes your bait, I am sure it will have little trouble shifting even the stiffest semi fixed lead. However, on two occasions I have caught a 6-inch carp on a 20mm boilie, even though the boilie was too big to fit inside its mouth. That 6-inch carp could grow up to be a record breaker. It would be a shame to expose it to such a dangerous rig so early in its life.

Another problem with a semi fixed lead is that if a small fish takes the bait but is too small to shift the weight, it just hangs there without you knowing thus preventing you catching something larger. When using a free running lead, you will detect even small fish movements but you lose the bolt effect of the lead. This is where the technique described in the video that Highy posted is so interesting. You can have a bolt effect and a free running lead. I intend improving on it by using a Fox COG lead and then adding a collar to turn it into an ACTIVE bolt lead.

The effect you describe with fish biting and not detecting is precisely what happens to me when the lead slides and the fish can move a bit of line around when the lead is left in the weed.

Before this year I used cog to gain the same benefit as the inline theoretically gives. I've landed a lot of fish with it but it is a bit more prone to tangle plus it requires special bits which in it self is a bit annoying. The idea of switching to inline for me is to have the line closer to the bottom since I use short hook links and also to avoid loosing the lead.

I'm obviously not trying to construct a death rig here.

Think more of the difference between a weed style leadclip that drops anything and a normal lead clip that won't drop most of the times in normal usage.

[elmoputney]

The tadpole set up is as safe if not much safer than a normal inline as the bore of the lead is bigger, as the original insert is removed, you can use the tadpole set up with the fox cog leads also if you wish, basically the lead over the ridge acts kind of like a shocker set up where it will give you a bolt effect and then discharge easily, I can't express enough I wouldn't use if the lead isnt able to discharge 

 

[carpepecheur]

I did not want to give the impression that I thought what was being suggested was dangerous. I was trying to make the point that the looser the swivel was coming from the lead the safer it was for smaller fish. Often I have wound in and found something small on the end that not only has wasted all the time that rig was in the water but, if it had been a breakoff, would have killed that small fish.

I agree with Simon that inline leads are superior because they are less prone to tangle. That is why I think the Fox COG is head and shoulders above the Korda COG. Lead clips also have more play in them before the bolt effect comes into play which gives the fish that little bit extra time to eject the bait. This is clearly demonstrated in the video Highy posted. Like Simon I prefer short rig lengths for the same reason. It gives the fish less time to eject the bait.

I do not understand why, once the swivel has pulled clear of the lead, a small fish cannot be detected in weed. Is this because the weed causes too much friction on the line for its small movements to be detected? Either way free flowing or stiffly fixed you are not going to detect it.

My solution, which I confess no one else seems to like, is to turn your weight into an active bolt lead. Simply put a large steel washer on the lead just short of the COG. Wind your line as tight as you can so that the washer bites in the silt or comes against a small unevenness in the lake bed. You then fish with a bend in your rod. When a fish takes, the hold of the washer is released, the rod springs straight and it jerks the weight towards you just a little bit. This increases the bolt effect by adding this extra force to the COG weight. More importantly (and I am only guessing here) the sudden movement of the weight frightens the fish into moving off before it has had time to eject the bait.

This photo shows how I got it wrong.

[yonny]

I think this subject is being completely over-thought.

On 02/08/2020 at 11:10, Simon KG said:

I feel that I'm not using the full weight of the lead as a bolt resistance........ 

If your hooks are razor sharp and your rig can reset you're worrying about nothing imo buddy. You have to bear in mind that the tighter you fix that lead, the easier it is for carp to use that lead to throw the hook. 

On 02/08/2020 at 11:10, Simon KG said:

.......and it also messes up the indication a bit and might let fish swim inside heavy weed with little movement on the bobbins. 

If it's that weedy just fish bowstring tight lines. The lines will be hidden in the weed and a single beep equals a bite. Dead easy mate.

17 hours ago, Simon KG said:

Ideally I want the lead to stick to the swivel unless line cracks but that is likely hard to achieve. It's just too easy to remove it as it is at the moment.

There are numerous inline set-ups available, and heli set ups, and lead clips, and they all work as intended out of the packet. You don't need to be butchering them unless you're looking to create something really far-out or completely unique. Jamming the lead on is just not the one mate.

If you truly believe that this issue is costing you fish then you need to be thinking about the feeding situation imo. If they are feeding that gingerly that the lead systems that work for everyone else are not working for you then there is something fundamentally wrong with feeding situation.

If it were me I'd be chucking a lead clip out there with a very sharp hook knowing full well it'll empty the place if put in the right spot.

[carpepecheur]

I agree with many of your points Yonny:-

It goes without saying that sharp hooks are a must.

Of course sort out the feeding situation.

And yes the carp can use a tight lead to throw a hook

But as for overthinking and there being enough existing solutions I disagree. I have been using my active lead solution very successfully for over 6 years now and I am still improving it. I do not know of anyone else doing the same thing. The following is an early prototype.

 

 

[yonny]

6 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

But as for overthinking and there being enough existing solutions I disagree. I have been using my active lead solution very successfully for over 6 years now and I am still improving it. I do not know of anyone else doing the same thing.

I don't disagree mate:

1 hour ago, yonny said:

There are numerous inline set-ups available, and heli set ups, and lead clips, and they all work as intended out of the packet. You don't need to be butchering them unless you're looking to create something really far-out or completely unique.

I think your active lead solution very much counts as something far-out and completely unique👍

[elmoputney]

2 hours ago, yonny said:

I think this subject is being completely over-thought.

I have tried to keep it simple, I just don't think anyone noticed 😁

my standard answer to myself now when I start to worry about rigs, bait or anything is? 

Rigs will work, bait works, you just fishing like a noddy boy 😭 seems to work for me these days 😂

 

 

[Simon KG]

6 hours ago, carpepecheur said:

I did not want to give the impression that I thought what was being suggested was dangerous. I was trying to make the point that the looser the swivel was coming from the lead the safer it was for smaller fish. Often I have wound in and found something small on the end that not only has wasted all the time that rig was in the water but, if it had been a breakoff, would have killed that small fish.

I agree with Simon that inline leads are superior because they are less prone to tangle. That is why I think the Fox COG is head and shoulders above the Korda COG. Lead clips also have more play in them before the bolt effect comes into play which gives the fish that little bit extra time to eject the bait. This is clearly demonstrated in the video Highy posted. Like Simon I prefer short rig lengths for the same reason. It gives the fish less time to eject the bait.

I do not understand why, once the swivel has pulled clear of the lead, a small fish cannot be detected in weed. Is this because the weed causes too much friction on the line for its small movements to be detected? Either way free flowing or stiffly fixed you are not going to detect it.

My solution, which I confess no one else seems to like, is to turn your weight into an active bolt lead. Simply put a large steel washer on the lead just short of the COG. Wind your line as tight as you can so that the washer bites in the silt or comes against a small unevenness in the lake bed. You then fish with a bend in your rod. When a fish takes, the hold of the washer is released, the rod springs straight and it jerks the weight towards you just a little bit. This increases the bolt effect by adding this extra force to the COG weight. More importantly (and I am only guessing here) the sudden movement of the weight frightens the fish into moving off before it has had time to eject the bait.

This photo shows how I got it wrong.

Don't worry I wasn't offended I just wanted to be clear that I'm aware of the balance of fish safety and effectiveness. It is not something that can be taken for granted I'm afraid. 

I think what happens is that the fish nails itself on the hook, loosen the lead up the line and then swim around in the weed a bit basically tether the line around weed and then the movement it makes won't register. And that's even if not fished that hard of a clutch.

[Simon KG]

5 hours ago, yonny said:

I think this subject is being completely over-thought.

If your hooks are razor sharp and your rig can reset you're worrying about nothing imo buddy. You have to bear in mind that the tighter you fix that lead, the easier it is for carp to use that lead to throw the hook. 

If it's that weedy just fish bowstring tight lines. The lines will be hidden in the weed and a single beep equals a bite. Dead easy mate.

There are numerous inline set-ups available, and heli set ups, and lead clips, and they all work as intended out of the packet. You don't need to be butchering them unless you're looking to create something really far-out or completely unique. Jamming the lead on is just not the one mate.

If you truly believe that this issue is costing you fish then you need to be thinking about the feeding situation imo. If they are feeding that gingerly that the lead systems that work for everyone else are not working for you then there is something fundamentally wrong with feeding situation.

If it were me I'd be chucking a lead clip out there with a very sharp hook knowing full well it'll empty the place if put in the right spot.

I get your point, truly. But thinking everything known today is optimized in every way is untrue imo. Im sure people thought the same 15 years ago and todays end tackle has obviously devolped since. All to solve different kinds of problems, in different ways. 

In most situations, not much is needed to hook a carp. But big grass carp that I fish for with these leads have hard mouths and they require very sharp hooks and instant penetration to the bend, else they will throw the hook or bend it like it's a sewing needle. Thats why I really need the resistance from the lead to be able to achieve that without loosing the grip from the swivel beforehand. 

Im totally not sure this is the most effective way to fish in this lake but I have been fishing it for more than 12 years as a "home lake" and I´ve tried most there is imo, with pretty good success all in all. So far, tight baiting with particles and short hook links with sharpened hooks and somewhat heavy leads have been the most successful approach for me.

[emmcee]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

 

 

Rigs will work, bait works, you just fishing like a noddy boy 😭 seems to work for me these days 😂

 

 

And as hard as it to admit sometimes that's the truth.  I've been there, we've probably all been there at some point.  Its bait, it's this, it's that, when its us. 

[Simon KG]

5 hours ago, carpepecheur said:

I totally agree that confidence is everything. I never go fishing without knowing I am going to catch a fish. Of course, sometimes I am wrong in my convictions and then I learn something new.

 

 

I like the challenge of solving problems and have learnt some new things by participating on this thread. I do not understand the thinking behind the need to make a swivel tighter in a semi fixed lead but I can offer an alternative solution. Instead of changing anything about the lead, before threading your line, put some conventional float stops on the line then when the lead is tied on, simply push them up against the back of the lead. The more stops you put on the larger the force required to slide the lead.

 

My Fox COG leads turned up in the post today so I am going to be in my element experimenting with them.

Thanks. 
Whats the name of the leads from Fox  you are referring to? They don't seem to be named Cog like cordas.