elmoputney Posted May 16, 2019 Report Posted May 16, 2019 On 16/05/2019 at 18:02, Leonard said: Sounds a bit like my venue On some lakes they do move around a LOT which makes all this swim hopping ''getting on them'' nonsense the bigshots force down our throats in the media a complete waste of time mate Can I suggest doing a long session of 72 hours or so, sitting on your hands with minimal bait out, waiting for them to come to you and having rigs out before they arrive? (Good book or two helps)! PS one thing overlooked in silt is, I think, just use a big 18mm boilie, far less chance of it wahsing out quickly, i.e try matching the hatch, I don't go for the flash little pots any more, all I use is minimal 18mm freezer baits and a little tiny tub of groundbait Expand If you can get my misses to agree to a 72 hour session you are a better man than me i have to do short sessions really as I have little ones I am lucky in that I can spend time walking the lake as it's close to me and I can get in a bit of pre baiting and area research but prepping for the trips in advance is as good as it gets for me , I think I've just got to keep baiting areas and hope it comes good in the end, and actually once I get my waders I will be able to set some super sneaky traps which they will hopefully not be able to resist and hopefully spots those chuffing birds won't find so quickly by being covert Quote
Leonard Posted May 16, 2019 Author Report Posted May 16, 2019 On 16/05/2019 at 19:06, elmoputney said: If you can get my misses to agree to a 72 hour session you are a better man than me i have to do short sessions really as I have little ones I am lucky in that I can spend time walking the lake as it's close to me and I can get in a bit of pre baiting and area research but prepping for the trips in advance is as good as it gets for me , I think I've just got to keep baiting areas and hope it comes good in the end, and actually once I get my waders I will be able to set some super sneaky traps which they will hopefully not be able to resist and hopefully spots those chuffing birds won't find so quickly by being covert Expand Baiting spoon mate? Tacklebox do 12 metre ones reasonable elmoputney 1 Quote
elmoputney Posted June 3, 2019 Report Posted June 3, 2019 On 15/05/2019 at 20:19, emmcee said: ive been using prem's goo in its various forms for donkeys years. absolutely love the stuff. Expand I had some emails with Tony the other day he sent me a little sample of goooed up and matrix soaked bottom baits there is no going back now they smell fantastic can't wait to try them out and I shall be using the same for all my baits smells like a winner to me Quote
emmcee Posted June 3, 2019 Report Posted June 3, 2019 On 03/06/2019 at 15:52, elmoputney said: I had some emails with Tony the other day he sent me a little sample of goooed up and matrix soaked bottom baits there is no going back now they smell fantastic can't wait to try them out and I shall be using the same for all my baits smells like a winner to me Expand you wpn't regret it. cracking bait on its own and it certainly won't harm your catch rate being glugged or gooed elmoputney 1 Quote
elmoputney Posted June 3, 2019 Report Posted June 3, 2019 On 03/06/2019 at 16:09, emmcee said: you wpn't regret it. cracking bait on its own and it certainly won't harm your catch rate being glugged or gooed Expand I seem to be able to harm that all by myself 😀 Seriously though it seems like a great solution to the weedy silty situation I find myself in, and I reckon them wiley carp won't be able to resist for long Quote
carpepecheur Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 Wow, things get really complicated in UK. I use straight forward maize (used for animal feed) at 30p per kilo. I do boil it but I am not convinced even that is necessary. The main requirement is to use lots of it over a long period of time. It also makes a good hookbait with 4 or 5 raw graines fished on a hair. It is quite resistant to crayfish. commonly 1 Quote
oscsha Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 08:53, carpepecheur said: Wow, things get really complicated in UK. I use straight forward maize (used for animal feed) at 30p per kilo. I do boil it but I am not convinced even that is necessary. The main requirement is to use lots of it over a long period of time. It also makes a good hookbait with 4 or 5 raw graines fished on a hair. It is quite resistant to crayfish. Expand Please make sure you soak and boil the maize before use . Used raw can result in killing fish due to the swelling of the grain occurring in the fish . I like fishing simple and use maize on some waters hair rigged and using a float ,beats sitting behind alarms . yonny and commonly 2 Quote
carpepecheur Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 I understand your point Oscha and because I am uncertain, I do soak and boil the maize. However I have scoured the internet for any factual evidence that raw maize swells up inside a carp and kills it. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence but no hard facts. I did read that a well known carp fishery in Eastern Europe fattens their carp with raw maize although again this might be fake news. Who knows these days? Try this test. Put some raw maize in a jar and let it soak for a couple of days and then measure it and tell me how much it has swollen up. Quote
oscsha Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 We know carp can be greedy when feeding , say they fill them selves 95% full with raw maize what happens if it swells before the digestive system breaks it down , just not worth even considering . No testing in jars is ever going to give you an answer . commonly 1 Quote
carpepecheur Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 I share your concern if true but where is your evidence. Quote
yonny Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:06, oscsha said: say they fill them selves 95% full with raw maize what happens if it swells before the digestive system breaks it down Expand Ah but carp cannot fill themselves..... they have no stomach, just a digestive tract, therefore food just passes through them. I think we're all agreed that unprepared particles are a no-no all the same. On 04/06/2019 at 09:58, carpepecheur said: I did read that a well known carp fishery in Eastern Europe fattens their carp with raw maize Expand Euro Aqua by any chance lol? oscsha 1 Quote
oscsha Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:10, carpepecheur said: I share your concern if true but where is your evidence. Expand This will end up going round in circles , there's no benefit to using raw other than saving time preparing . It's one of those situations where you don't need hard evidence just logic ! Some times trying to win an argument /debate is not worth it . commonly 1 Quote
yonny Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:14, oscsha said: Some times trying to win an argument /debate is not worth it . Expand No arguments, this is a healthy debate lads👍 commonly 1 Quote
oscsha Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 Are Yonny thats why I didn't say stomach the system can still get full though I would have thought ? yonny 1 Quote
yonny Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:16, oscsha said: Are Yonny thats why I didn't say stomach the system can still get full though I would have thought ? Expand I'm nor sure they can mate, they could as I understand it just eat, and eat, and eat - if they chose to. I have seen fish feed to the point that they're eating the chewed up tigers they've just crapped out!!! Now that's what I call recycling lol!!! commonly 1 Quote
elmoputney Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 08:53, carpepecheur said: Wow, things get really complicated in UK. I use straight forward maize (used for animal feed) at 30p per kilo. I do boil it but I am not convinced even that is necessary. The main requirement is to use lots of it over a long period of time. It also makes a good hookbait with 4 or 5 raw graines Expand I would like to just be able to use maize but in the shallow lake I am fishing the ducks and swans would eat it all before it even saw a fish, its just too visible, even if you use it to prebait those pesky blighters seem to remember your spots and wait for you to turn up Quote
yonny Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 Sweetcorn is twice as effective as maize imo. Unless you're mass baiting due to cost i.e. kilos of the stuff, I can't see why maize would be used before corn as anything but a hookbait. On 04/06/2019 at 10:31, elmoputney said: I would like to just be able to use maize but in the shallow lake I am fishing the ducks and swans would eat it all before it even saw a fish, its just too visible, even if you use it to prebait those pesky blighters seem to remember your spots and wait for you to turn up Expand Agree, can be difficult to use within the reach of bird life, once they've found it they'll not leave you alone. Have you tried hemp? commonly 1 Quote
oscsha Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:20, yonny said: I'm nor sure they can mate, they could as I understand it just eat, and eat, and eat - if they chose to. I have seen fish feed to the point that they're eating the chewed up tigers they've just crapped out!!! Now that's what I call recycling lol!!! Expand It's a very interesting subject , I wonder how long their digestive system needs to utilise the nutrients , in the case of tigers I've witnessed that aswell but I wonder if the digestive system is actually pulling any nutrients out of them . i should read up on it a bit more . yonny 1 Quote
oscsha Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 One of the waters I use Maize on is full of Rudd and corn just gets devoured in minutes hence the use on maize . yonny 1 Quote
salokcinnodrog Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:31, elmoputney said: I would like to just be able to use maize but in the shallow lake I am fishing the ducks and swans would eat it all before it even saw a fish, its just too visible, even if you use it to prebait those pesky blighters seem to remember your spots and wait for you to turn up Expand That can be a bonus in itself, use unprepared maize to fill the ducks and swans up, it can be put on the bank rather than in the lake. Because ducks and swans do have stomachs, it does swell up, once they are full they just go mooch and 'sleep it off'. On 04/06/2019 at 09:58, carpepecheur said: I understand your point Oscha and because I am uncertain, I do soak and boil the maize. However I have scoured the internet for any factual evidence that raw maize swells up inside a carp and kills it. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence but no hard facts. I did read that a well known carp fishery in Eastern Europe fattens their carp with raw maize although again this might be fake news. Who knows these days? Try this test. Put some raw maize in a jar and let it soak for a couple of days and then measure it and tell me how much it has swollen up. Expand I'm not sure on the digestion of maize, i'm sure it is mostly broken down by the pharyngeal teeth before swallowing. However, I am sure it is more attractive and more nutritional once it has been soaked and boiled. If it is sprouted then I think it is at its best. I'm sure a number of fisheries use raw wheat grain to supplement fish diets. On 04/06/2019 at 10:47, oscsha said: It's a very interesting subject , I wonder how long their digestive system needs to utilise the nutrients , in the case of tigers I've witnessed that aswell but I wonder if the digestive system is actually pulling any nutrients out of them . i should read up on it a bit more . Expand With nuts, grains and legumes that are not broken into pieces, only the outside is giving nutrients. The rest is contained inside the unbroken pieces. I think you will find that is why despite peanuts being rich in Vitamin E that vitamin is unable to be used. Even in our acid rich stomachs, you will excrete peanuts, tiger nuts, sweetcorn or unchewed grains. In sweetcorn you excrete it almost exactly as it goes in. The carp's alimentary canal can only take nutrients from ingestion to excretion, (sounds obvious), and they will eat until the nutritional need is fulfilled, not, being as they don't have one, their stomach is full, which we do as humans. commonly and yonny 2 Quote
elmoputney Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:46, yonny said: Sweetcorn is twice as effective as maize imo. Unless you're mass baiting due to cost i.e. kilos of the stuff, I can't see why maize would be used before corn as anything but a hookbait. Agree, can be difficult to use within the reach of bird life, once they've found it they'll not leave you alone. Have you tried hemp? Expand Funnily enough all my tench and bream have come when using plain hemp and boilies, when I've used mixed particles I just attract the birds, yonny and commonly 1 1 Quote
oscsha Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:58, salokcinnodrog said: With nuts, grains and legumes that are not broken into pieces, only the outside is giving nutrients. The rest is contained inside the unbroken pieces. I think you will find that is why despite peanuts being rich in Vitamin E that vitamin is unable to be used. Even in our acid rich stomachs, you will excrete peanuts, tiger nuts, sweetcorn or unchewed grains. In sweetcorn you excrete it almost exactly as it goes in. The carp's alimentary canal can only take nutrients from ingestion to excretion, (sounds obvious), and they will eat until the nutritional need is fulfilled, not being as they don't have one, their stomach is full, which we do as humans. Expand Maybe we're doing it wrong by using boilies that meet a carps needs , as they may eat less due to their nutritional need being fulfilled , this leading to the fish being on the feed less. Playing devils advocate a little yonny 1 Quote
yonny Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:50, salokcinnodrog said: they will eat until the nutritional need is fulfilled Expand I'm not convinced it's that simple Nick. Imo atmospheric conditions play a huge part in feeding behaviour too. commonly 1 Quote
elmoputney Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 10:50, salokcinnodrog said: That can be a bonus in itself, use unprepared maize to fill the ducks and swans up, it can be put on the bank rather than in the lake. Because ducks and swans do have stomachs, it does swell up, once they are full they just go mooch and 'sleep it off'. Expand This could be a good idea I think feeding the ducks off isn't a bad idea tbh would certainly help anyway If we used baking powder maybe they may explode 🤔😁 commonly 1 Quote
yonny Posted June 4, 2019 Report Posted June 4, 2019 On 04/06/2019 at 11:37, elmoputney said: baking powder Expand I was just waiting for someone to say that 😂🤣😂 elmoputney and commonly 1 1 Quote
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