Tubing - the perfect set up.

[adamkitson]

Really only this year got into using tubing almost exclusively instead of leaders, and thinking about it even more with an upcoming social on Holme Fen where 1m of tubing is a requirement and no leaders of any kind are used.

 

Have to say, the more I think about it, the more I believe it is the safest most versitile setup you can have.

 

With the change of a single knot and accessory you can switch between lead clip, drop off inline, running, and rotary/heli with absolutely no safety compromise. In face, in most cases much safer!

 

Actually think I may be done with leaders all together. I've only used them for heli setups in recent years, but now a solution to that has become obvious I don't even need them then!

 

Anyone else fish like this? People who don't, with the exception of shock leaders, what is the benefit as you see it of a leader over tubing?

[salokcinnodrog]

I much prefer tubing or naked set-ups, although as you say, where tubing is a rule requirement then obviously naked is out the window.

I must admit I've never believed that mono mainline will cut up fish or ping scales, although maybe on a big scaly mirror pinging a scale is a possibility with mainline.

 

Tubing was originally used with set-ups to reduce tangles, usually with braided Dacron hooklinks, hence its full name of Anti-Tangle tubing, and I reckon CM can remember the joys of stripping electrical cable as we used to do.

 

Running leads with soft tubing, big run rings I think do not compromise rig sensitivity, and with inlines and semi-fixed it works a treat, something that tackle manufacturers actually do brand correctly, although as some brand it for fish protection I think a bit of a misnomer.

 

Ages ago I put some pics in Safe Lead set-ups, but I'll requote the section with my running lead set-ups that I have used for many years:

This Running set up is pictured straight on my rods as I was retying rigs after replacing the Mainline.

 

Running Rig with tubing

 

 

version of the Running Lead set-up, where the run ring and lead can both be ejected should the fish or lead get snagged:

 

I still use the top version now almost every trip, although as again, I have said before, by fishing a tight line it becomes a semi-fixed bolt rig.

[newmarket]

No leader no tubing .

 

Unless there's a chance of being cut off on obvious snags like mussels etc.Rig concealment is difficult enough without advertising you are there with a length of blooming great tubing

[adamkitson]

Unless tubing is in the rules!

 

I must say Nick, one thing I haven't given due time to is a running rig. Can't say as I've used that since feeder fishing a quiver tip for roach and bream. Although come to think of it I've done a handful of barbel trips on the Severn in the last few years, and I wouldn't think of using anything other than a running lead.

 

Another interesting thought in terms of safety, swam the lead and rig locations and you've got a heli rig. They still part ways just as easily.

 

Wow I've never heard of stripping electrical cable for rig tubing. I'm an electrician so I'm stripping cable every day. Never though of substituting my supple tungsten tubing for a length of brown insulation! Wouldn't fancy trying to get a meter in one go either, although I bet it goes on the line easier!

[adamkitson]

Yeah. I bet this whole "mainstream" carp fishing movement drives you nuts if you've been in the game for many years. I've fished since I was 7, on and off, which is still "only" 25 years, and I've fished pretty much every fresh water method/species and a few salt water too. I joined my first carp syndicate when I was 17, and have been pretty much just carp, with a bit of barbel and fly thrown in) since then, and I find it hard enough to swallow the preachy nature of some modern day ticket anglers who, as they speak, you can picture the episode of thinking tackle that it came from. No personal experience or trial and error at all, just parroting someone else's incites. Must drive you nuts if you've been in the game for 20/30/40 years!

 

That's why I like my little secluded Shropshire syndi, with nothing much over 30, and a challenge just to get a run. But most of the time I've got it to myself, or other like minded anglers. Drives me mad sometimes, but I've done the day ticket thing sporadically, and always come back to the peace and quiet of harder lakes with smaller fish and less of them.

 

Next time I've stripped off a length of cable I may even be tempted to give is a go! And with the eu harmonised colours there's brown to use now too!

[ianfrog]

Hi Adam

I hate to play the old git card but I used to strip the black sheathing from "firetuff 2000" it was the cable we used to rewire the fire alarms for London underground and because it was silicone rather than plastic a metre at a time was easily doable, hard on the fingers mind.

Sorry I ain`t a spark but I always kept my eyes open lol.

Cheers

Ian

[adamkitson]

Ah, yeah it's firesure now. Softer silicone insulation and a single conductor rather than multicore 4mm. Probably would work better.

(On the other hand, probably will just stick with tungsten tubing.)

[salokcinnodrog]

Ah, yeah it's firesure now. Softer silicone insulation and a single conductor rather than multicore 4mm. Probably would work better.

(On the other hand, probably will just stick with tungsten tubing.)

I thought that tungsten tubing was the answer to many prayers, until I met Reggie and Ronnie

Those things will shred any tungsten, putty or tubing you name it they eat it.

I have had to go back to plain anti tangle or rig tubing, and using pole fishing olivettes for pop-up weights.

 

I used to work in an electrical wholesaler, buying a reel of 1.5 6242y and making sure I got the right manufacturer as Delta and BICC were different, just so I could take the insulation off the cables for carp fishing. Sticking the blooming stuff in a tub of boiling water to soften it for stripping the copper wire out the middle. I did used to sell extra stripped lengths to a tackle shop though

 

Hard on the fingers?

Blooming nightmare it was

 

Fishing for years?

I was fishing in the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's and now the 10's, that is 5 decades

[adamkitson]

I have yet to come across a lake with crays. Long may that continue!

 

This is great! In most walks of life nowadays there are more and more things/people that make me feel old. Good to pop along here where it seems to work the other way!

[hutch]

Sorry to thread hijack 

 

There is a lot written at the moment between invisibility or camouflage of end tackle, I have been of the opinion that the fish brushing against line or possibly something less visible to its eye eg.. fluorocarbon leader etc spooks them more than anything especially if it is slightly sat up off the bottom, as where tubing although being more visible would the fish being able to see it cause then to just work around it as just something lying on the bottom.

 

I'm not trying to attach any form of intelligence in fish, like they know a leader is a leader etc.. , but more looking at them brushing against a certain material makes them more spooked than maybe others 

 

Just interested in peoples thoughts   

[newmarket]

I think it's possible that they spook from both Hutch.

It's why I fish without tubing unless absolutely necessary and why I try best I can to get my line on the deck .

 

But as the Rob Hughes underwater articles prove , I know it's very rarely the case .

[salokcinnodrog]

Sorry to thread hijack 

 

There is a lot written at the moment between invisibility or camouflage of end tackle, I have been of the opinion that the fish brushing against line or possibly something less visible to its eye eg.. fluorocarbon leader etc spooks them more than anything especially if it is slightly sat up off the bottom, as where tubing although being more visible would the fish being able to see it cause then to just work around it as just something lying on the bottom.

 

I'm not trying to attach any form of intelligence in fish, like they know a leader is a leader etc.. , but more looking at them brushing against a certain material makes them more spooked than maybe others 

 

Just interested in peoples thoughts

 

I can remember an Ian Poole article along those lines.

He found that with rig tubing the fish weren't spooking as they did with mono or leaders.

I guess that to some extent, a length of rig tubing looks a bit like a waterlogged twig or stick?

 

Another thought that may or may not be relevant; how well does vibration pass through a tight line or leader from the rod tip to end tackle?

Does this, or can this vibration or even sound be enough to put the fish on edge?

Would the rig tubing absorb and reduce any vibration through the line?

 

As we can't see sound or vibration underwater are we assuming that it is the visibility or invisibility of the line or leader that is spooking them?

 

Would it be possible that although the fish may be able to see the rig tubing, because it is not vibrating, it is not 'creating waves' and making them as wary?

 

On most waters from around 1992 onwards I have used tubing, with semi-fixed pendant leads, helicopter and running leads the majority of the time, although I have caught fish with and without.

 

Tubing does protect the line from rubbing over snags, in fact I have retrieved occasionally over gravel or crayfish where my tubing has been rubbed or scratched through, and with chunks missing. The very fact I have got everything back attests to its use.

 

I now use either Fox or Solar tubing, I honestly can't remember which brand I have left as I bought both as a complete run ring and tubing set, and grab whichever comes to hand when I replace a length.

[Steve001]

I've pretty much only ever used tubing for all my fishing and have never really felt the need to change. The only thing I do is use a lighter coloured tubing and using a black permanent marker paint stripes along its length just to break up the straight line of tubing on the lake bed. I'm convinced this is a little edge that has put a few extra fish on the bank for me. That's interesting thinking that the fish aren't bothered about brushing up against something they can see as said it could be just another twig rather than an invisible enemy

[hutch]

 

 

I guess that to some extent, a length of rig tubing looks a bit like a waterlogged twig or stick?

 

This is along the line that I was thinking that tubing although visible would look more like something already on the bottom which they  could natural just avoid as they can see it (as there eye sight is suppose to be quite good close) as where items like leader materials might feel more unnatural against there flanks if touch or bumping into something they can't see. Also brushing against something they can't see must be weird for them.

 

 

 

As we can't see sound or vibration underwater are we assuming that it is the visibility or invisibility of the line or leader that is spooking them?

 

Would it be possible that although the fish may be able to see the rig tubing, because it is not vibrating, it is not 'creating waves' and making them as wary?

 

Never thought about vibration would this not effect leadcore more as oppose to mono and braid based materials 

[salokcinnodrog]

This is along the line that I was thinking that tubing although visible would look more like something already on the bottom which they  could natural just avoid as they can see it (as there eye sight is suppose to be quite good close) as where items like leader materials might feel more unnatural against there flanks if touch or bumping into something they can't see. Also brushing against something they can't see must be weird for them.

 

 

 

Never thought about vibration would this not effect leadcore more as oppose to mono and braid based materials 

I don't know!

I do know if you attach two paper cups to the opposite ends of a piece of string and pull the string tight, have someone speak into one cup, the other person can hear it clearly.

 

Now both braided main lines, and Leadcore are effectively braid, so a tight line may well not be as invisible as thought, or correctly, may be invisible, but could be felt, the same as mono.

The stretch or elasticity in mono, may cancel out some of the vibration, but by using tubing over the end, it is insulated, preventing vibration into the surrounding area.

So fishing bow string lines may work against you, compared to semi-tight, or even slack, but tight line with semi-fixed leads will give best indication.

[spr1985]

Has the paper cup and string experiment been done with the string passing through water?? Or replace the string with mono/flourocarbon/ leadcore/braid and tested on land? Very thought provoking and I'd be interested to see the results

 

 

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[nigewoodcock]

Has the paper cup and string experiment been done with the string passing through water?? Or replace the string with mono/flourocarbon/ leadcore/braid and tested on land? Very thought provoking and I'd be interested to see the results

 

 

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Or without two cups on each end!!!! Lol

[chillfactor]

Where does this stack up with anglers like Julian cundiff,

who actively fish for line bites with rods up high to help locate the fish ?

As soon as he gets a line bite on the rod a baited rig is put right next to it so he obviously doesn't think they spook off it .

[hutch]

 

 

Where does this stack up with anglers like Julian cundiff,

who actively fish for line bites with rods up high to help locate the fish ? 

As soon as he gets a line bite on the rod a baited rig is put right next to it so he obviously doesn't think they spook off it . 

 

See this is the other side of the coin, I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer, I was looking for peoples opinions as we have a loads of good anglers on here that have a very wide selection of angling experiences.

 

Your last bit takes my initial idea of fish being more spooked by brushing against items they can't see or the feel of that material and turns on its head, or is it the fact that touching the line did spook them but only temporarily and they have just done another circuit of there route and come back for another look as they know there is an easy meal waiting.

 

Obviously the whole sight thing goes out the window at night, as they must be used to brushing against things in the dark but do some materials feel more unnatural to them, knocking against something like tubing might feel more like a piece of debris on the bottom, but then a wet leadless leader may feel just like a bit of weed. 

[chillfactor]

I know it's always been a thought as a pro for slack lines , less chance of any vibration passing down the line .

As you only have to swim underwater yourself to know what sound travels like & sounds like underwater.

But far to many fish get caught on drum tight lines for me to take any notice of that personally.

[salokcinnodrog]

I know it's always been a thought as a pro for slack lines , less chance of any vibration passing down the line .

As you only have to swim underwater yourself to know what sound travels like & sounds like underwater.

But far to many fish get caught on drum tight lines for me to take any notice of that personally.

From my physics lessons I recall that sound travels fastest through a solid, then water then air. It is down to its properties in air that we hear speech and other noises.

 

I know that if you fish tight lines in a pretty strong wind you can hear the line 'thrumming' in the wind, same as that same wind and telegraph or power cables.

Sound creates a vibration, in fact it is that vibration that you 'hear'.

 

 

I'm trying to recall how many fish I have caught in stormy conditions with a tight line; one that stands out was in a gale that actually had me holding onto bivvy with one hand, and trying to play a fish with the other, as well as standing on the bivvy skirt in a strong November gale.

 

 

As with any fishing, I wonder if I fished tight lines how many it scares, as opposed to fishing slack would I have the same results?

Is it even possible to fish a slack line in a gale, unless you have the rod tips under the water?

 

 

More room for experimentation, tight vs slack in a wind, but I honestly don't have the water, or even the time and conditions guaranteed to try it

 

I think in that sort of fishing we have actually reached an impasse, you wouldn't want to be diving in that, you wouldn't be able to even fish a slack line if conditions are ripping any slack line up.

[jim77]

Sorry to be a pain here as I am new to this.. What's the difference between a tubing set and leader?

 

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[cyborx]

as far as i can see Jim, tubing will help to protect the fish from line rubbing its flanks and scale lifting.

tubing will also help stop abrasion on your line from gravel or swan muscles etc and also with the camouflaging of your line.

a leader will also do some of these things but mainly assist in helping you to chuck a three stone lead over the horizon without cracking off

[adamkitson]

Ooh me me me!!

 

Tubing is just that. A length of tubing that the main line runs through. Can be a pain to thread in long lengths. At the end of the tubing is tied the lead arrangement and hooklink.

 

A leader is a length of material, various available, which the main line is tied directly to. The lead arrangement is usually part of the leader, or fixed to it, with the hooklink attached to the end.

 

The issue many have with leaders is that in the event of a snap off, the line will usually break at the knot. If using tubing the fish is only left with the hooklink when used correctly. With a leader the fish is left with the leader and hooklink, and depending on the lead setup, the lead too. The tubing option is undoubtably safer in most setups and situations. Arguably it makes no difference/can be safer with a leader when fishing a rotary rig, but I won't bore you with that!

[adamkitson]

as far as i can see Jim, tubing will help to protect the fish from line rubbing its flanks and scale lifting.

tubing will also help stop abrasion on your line from gravel or swan muscles etc and also with the camouflaging of your line.

a leader will also do some of these things but mainly assist in helping you to chuck a three stone lead over the horizon without cracking off

Beat me!