Pop ups in pva bags

[adamkitson]

Anyone got any good rig suggestions for pop ups in solid bags?

 

I'm thinking a D rig with un-stripped N trap, an inch after the hook coated with the rest stripped and a weight/putty to hold it down. Or a small multi rig stripped completely after the hook loop.

 

Just trying to think of ways to get a good pop up presentation, without the rig mis-shaping a lot in the bag. Simple hair rig with a pop up on and putty won't get the pop up presentation I want I don't think, and a stiff hooklink section could easily get bent when packing the bag.

 

Any thoughts?

[androoooo]

I've used the multi rig as you say but with hydro link and removing the inner. Just use a mega buoyant popup so it lifts itself free from the offerings.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[beanz]

Is it presentation your actually worried about or hooking mechanics??

 

I use a nice limp braid and knotless knot.

 

Try a few different set ups in the margin or tank and see what you like most.

[beanz]

Idont use them often but take a korda made up choddy and tie it on your mainline at the end with a bit of putty at the end of the ring, bung it it in a bag of pellets and you wnt go far wrong.

 Would it still work as well if using a fox or Nash ???

[adamkitson]

korda made up choddy

Surely that's a breach of the "no swearing" rules CM?

 

I do occasionally use a version of a combi/stiff hinge rig by tying a 1 inch chod rig to a length of coated braid, pulling the knot tight strips a nice clean hinge, then putty on the knot. Usually for me a multi is more suitable though, and much simpler to tie.

[adamkitson]

Is it presentation your actually worried about or hooking mechanics??

 

I use a nice limp braid and knotless knot.

 

Try a few different set ups in the margin or tank and see what you like most.

For me the hooking mechanics of a multi are unrivalled. It sits like a choddy with less of a curve, but still a nice aggressive down facing hook, and if you ask me the softer material makes it harder for a fish to deal with. I will definitely have a try with pop ups on a supple braid. Would be nice and simple.

[beanz]

A shot on a tiny loop of braid over the hook just back from the barb( I cant remember what the media name for this rig is) works a treat on limp braid pop up rigs to get that same point angle, with added weight...It not one iv use often but a mate used to use loads and it all ways surprised me that the hook holds were good...I always expected the loop and shot to restrict the depth of hold.

[newmarket]

I think a pop up surrounded by a small pile of freebies from a solid bag might stick out like a sore thumb ?

[nigewoodcock]

I think a pop up surrounded by a small pile of freebies from a solid bag might stick out like a sore thumb ?

Hopefully!!!!

[newmarket]

Yeah ok I asked for that lol

[Carpbell_ll]

I use a combi rig in a pva bag, fill the bag with some chopped and a few whole boilies and some tiny pellets to fill the gaps, twist the bag closed, try to have it looking like a cake icing pipe bag, cone shaped when tied. Thread the rig from the bottom corner, with the loop end coming out of the centre top of the cone shape bag,

The bag should sit nicely on the hook and pull the rig out straight on the cast

[adamkitson]

Hmm, that's an interesting thought. A solid bag threaded onto a multi rig like a stick, Shall have to try that!

 

Doesn't really help with this problem though. For some background, it is becoming very obvious that on the lake I'm fishing this year, dropping the lead is a good idea! It is shallow, and weedy. Not awful, but in a lake that's only 4/5 feet deep, a couple of feed of weed and it is beneficial to play fish up in the water!

 

I usually fish helicopter with a leader, and a multi. That way I'm pretty sure I'm getting presentation in the low weed. As the weed gets deeper though I think a little added attraction will help them find it quicker, so, solid bag with a pop up and a drop off inline lead fished on tubing pretty much ticks all the boxes. I need something that will sit nicely on a clear patch, but will still fish if it ends up in the weed. Also the "bolt" element of this setup sits well with me. I've been fishing heli's for a while, and only had a couple of real screaming runs.

 

I don't think I need to worry a lot about the hookbait being on top of the pile. I'm going to be using a bag mix of very small pellets, a bit of groundbait and boillie crumb. Shall probably bung some liquids in there too. The pop up will match the bag mix anyway unless I give a fluoro a try. I think it'll need to pop up maybe an inch or less. Pretty much just so it works its way to the top of the pile when the bag melts. Generally I always bung a pop up in there to use as a marker to aim the freebies at. Had the idea of pva threading this to the hookbait so it pulls it out of the bag mix and sits it back on top when it melts, but I think I prefer the idea of the popup just making its way tot he top of the mix.

[rosstheangler]

I've stopped using pop ups in solid bags. Instead I use a wafter on a short uncoated supple braid.

[newmarket]

I've stopped using pop ups in solid bags. Instead I use a wafter on a short uncoated supple braid.

That sounds like a better presentation to me ....

 

A Sufix braid

Edited May 19, 2016 by newmarket

[adamkitson]

I've stopped using pop ups in solid bags. Instead I use a wafter on a short uncoated supple braid.

Yeah that's how I'd fish a bottom bait in a bag. Just interested in popup ideas too. Can't hurt to have more weapons in the armoury!

[rosstheangler]

The reason I stopped using the pop ups was in my mind the pop up would only want to be 15 - 20mm popped up for it to be effective and I had a few fish landed on this method that were hooked outside the mouth and up the gills a bit.

 

Almost as if the carp were feeding on the bag contents but the pop up was to high to go in its mouth.

[keeno86]

ive been playing with the new korda dark matter braid, very heavy for a braid, very supple, ideal for a bag. id use that with a weight/putty at your desired distance from the hook to get the pop up presentation your after.

[adamkitson]

ive been playing with the new korda dark matter braid, very heavy for a braid, very supple, ideal for a bag. id use that with a weight/putty at your desired distance from the hook to get the pop up presentation your after.

Don't think it would get the presentation I'm after unfortunately. Have experimented with pop ups just on a supple link and it just doesn't seem to get the effect. Sounds great for a bottom bait though!

[beanz]

Yeah ok I asked for that lol

LOL big time !!!!!

[beanz]

That sounds like a better presentation to me ....

 

A Sufix braid

which way do your bags land up then???......If wafters are neutral, then if upside-down then the only visual is the bag contents.... A pop up (blatant or not) will sit above the contents ....speeding up the chances......or is that crazy talk????(Im thinking shotted not zigging styley)

[salokcinnodrog]

You could have different presentation without knowing it, sometimes a bait sat on the top of the pile of freebies, and sometimes under or in the middle of it. It may do your head in not knowing which way you are fishing.

 

I can understand all perspectives, a mouthful of bait picking up a fish that just cleans up a PVA bag of bait with a hook attached somewhere in there, the hookbait in the middle or under could be good, or on top it may be able to 'see' the bait and avoid it, or it being more blatant make the hookbait stand out more.

 

I really hate this 'drop the lead', in most cases it is not needed, is actually a form of pollution, littering. In weed an inline zipp shaped lead will play through the weed far better than anything with a lead clip attached.

 

Add to that fishing a leader in weed is a big  no no. You are moving the weak point further up the line, and increasing the chance of a fish getting tethered. The leader knot in itself is a weed collector, if because you are fishing a leader in weed, if a break off occurs, that leader can go round plenty of weed, creating the chance of tethering.

 

Also helicopter set-ups in weed are also a No, they don't give fast enough indication, the fish can move miles before you get any indication at the rod end. An additional point is that weed can be quite abrasive, not necessarily the weed itself, but snails, mussels etc, and a heli set-up increases the chance of the line giving way where the rig runs over it. 

 

Only a couple of screaming runs?

That actually sounds to me like you are often being done, the fish getting away with it without any indication at the rod end. Try switching to a different set-up, maybe a 'paternostered' style running lead on a weak link (which will only give way if the lead is snagged) and you could find yourself getting far more fish.

which way do your bags land up then???......If wafters are neutral, then if upside-down then the only visual is the bag contents.... A pop up (blatant or not) will sit above the contents ....speeding up the chances......or is that crazy talk????(Im thinking shotted not zigging styley)

 

 

I've stopped using pop ups in solid bags. Instead I use a wafter on a short uncoated supple braid.

 

 

Hmm, that's an interesting thought. A solid bag threaded onto a multi rig like a stick, Shall have to try that!

 

Doesn't really help with this problem though. For some background, it is becoming very obvious that on the lake I'm fishing this year, dropping the lead is a good idea! It is shallow, and weedy. Not awful, but in a lake that's only 4/5 feet deep, a couple of feed of weed and it is beneficial to play fish up in the water!

 

I usually fish helicopter with a leader, and a multi. That way I'm pretty sure I'm getting presentation in the low weed. As the weed gets deeper though I think a little added attraction will help them find it quicker, so, solid bag with a pop up and a drop off inline lead fished on tubing pretty much ticks all the boxes. I need something that will sit nicely on a clear patch, but will still fish if it ends up in the weed. Also the "bolt" element of this setup sits well with me. I've been fishing heli's for a while, and only had a couple of real screaming runs.

 

I don't think I need to worry a lot about the hookbait being on top of the pile. I'm going to be using a bag mix of very small pellets, a bit of groundbait and boillie crumb. Shall probably bung some liquids in there too. The pop up will match the bag mix anyway unless I give a fluoro a try. I think it'll need to pop up maybe an inch or less. Pretty much just so it works its way to the top of the pile when the bag melts. Generally I always bung a pop up in there to use as a marker to aim the freebies at. Had the idea of pva threading this to the hookbait so it pulls it out of the bag mix and sits it back on top when it melts, but I think I prefer the idea of the popup just making its way tot he top of the mix.

[adamkitson]

The reason I stopped using the pop ups was in my mind the pop up would only want to be 15 - 20mm popped up for it to be effective and I had a few fish landed on this method that were hooked outside the mouth and up the gills a bit.

Almost as if the carp were feeding on the bag contents but the pop up was to high to go in its mouth.

Yup, totally agree that I would only want it to pop up by 1 - 1.5 cm. Anything higher and it'd look un-natural to me. Pretty much the eye of the hook would be near enough on the deck with the popup above. The idea is that it still looks like part of the pile of food from the bag but works its way to the top so is likely to be the first item taken every time. The popup requirement in my thinking is that I feel that a popup fished like this with an inline (drop off) is more likely to result in a hook up the first time it is taken, or at least give some indication. For me bag fishing is one hit. I don't want the rig done a few times while the fish eat the bag mix, leaving only the hook bait and a few crumbs for hours. Not really the right rig for that.

[adamkitson]

which way do your bags land up then???......If wafters are neutral, then if upside-down then the only visual is the bag contents.... A pop up (blatant or not) will sit above the contents ....speeding up the chances......or is that crazy talk????(Im thinking shotted not zigging styley)

That would be my thinking too.

 

Another thing I've found to work in a tank test, once the bag is tied up, tie a couple of pva nuggets to the side of the bag you want up. Pretty well always lands well.

 

My bags, with pop ups, doesn't really matter which way up they land cause as you say, the popup will work its way to the top.

[adamkitson]

You could have different presentation without knowing it, sometimes a bait sat on the top of the pile of freebies, and sometimes under or in the middle of it. It may do your head in not knowing which way you are fishing.

 

I can understand all perspectives, a mouthful of bait picking up a fish that just cleans up a PVA bag of bait with a hook attached somewhere in there, the hookbait in the middle or under could be good, or on top it may be able to 'see' the bait and avoid it, or it being more blatant make the hookbait stand out more.

 

I really hate this 'drop the lead', in most cases it is not needed, is actually a form of pollution, littering. In weed an inline zipp shaped lead will play through the weed far better than anything with a lead clip attached.

 

Add to that fishing a leader in weed is a big  no no. You are moving the weak point further up the line, and increasing the chance of a fish getting tethered. The leader knot in itself is a weed collector, if because you are fishing a leader in weed, if a break off occurs, that leader can go round plenty of weed, creating the chance of tethering.

 

Also helicopter set-ups in weed are also a No, they don't give fast enough indication, the fish can move miles before you get any indication at the rod end. An additional point is that weed can be quite abrasive, not necessarily the weed itself, but snails, mussels etc, and a heli set-up increases the chance of the line giving way where the rig runs over it. 

 

Only a couple of screaming runs?

That actually sounds to me like you are often being done, the fish getting away with it without any indication at the rod end. Try switching to a different set-up, maybe a 'paternostered' style running lead on a weak link (which will only give way if the lead is snagged) and you could find yourself getting far more fish.

 

Yup, not dropping the lead and using a lead that will play through the weed is one train of thought, another would be that dropping the lead means spending much more time playing the fish above the weed rather than through it, meaning nothing can or will get snagged up.

 

Said before on the leaders thing, I only use leaders for heli fishing where I want to retain the lead as I feel with a lead on the end, no trace bead, and every likelyhood of it snapping at the knot this actually gives the fish a much better chance of only being left with the rig than many other setups. I'd fish a heli with no leader if using a lead drop system, but it's not my favourite setup. My thinking with cracking the PVA bag with drop off inline is to be able to fish a tubing based setup, fish a bolt rig, fish neatly in a bag, and drop all weight from the line on the strike so as to play the fish up in the water. If the weed makes it bottom to top in the summer I shall think again.

 

I have had a lot of runs on heli setups. By "screaming runs" I mean full on explosive one toners. What I usually get is a tightening up, maybe a bit of drop back, I'm usually on the rod by then. Only a couple of occasions I've struck into this air, mostly I connect, and I have had my fair share of runs. On the indication thing, on a heli I fish a back lead with a tightish line between the lead and the back lead and a light bobbin. My thought on the take is that the leads remain in place and the line is moved by the rig giving indication almost immediately. It may help that I always set the top bead about a foot up, so it fishes more like a chod. As soon as the hook catches and the fish rises up it has the weight of the line like a clothes line creating tension but following the fish up and down in the water making it very hard to deal with. The fish trying to deal with it gives the "stop start" indication by which time I've hit it and set the hook. I am as confident as I possibly can be that the indication works very well. There is a swan or two on the lake I fish, and I get picked up by them regularly. As I can see them getting to the spot, and see them picking up the bait, and see the alarms at the same time I can honestly say that every pick up is registered on the alarms. I can't see how it would be conceivably possible for the lead to be moved from the hook without indication. Dragging from the bottom bead, bobbin pulls up. Dragging from the top bead, drop back. In fact if you think about it the heli setup is the most like a running rig, as the fish can move and give indication without moving the lead. Of course fishing this type of lead setup on a slack line would just be stupid!

[salokcinnodrog]

This is C&P'd from the Slack vs Tight lines thread

 

 

I fish both slack or tight depending on conditions and lake.
Currently due to undertow and currents I am having to fish tight lines, but on the same lake when the sluice is shut, I prefer running leads and slack lines.

If I go through my fishing and lead set-ups in terms of lakes and times, then maybe it will give some indication (sic     ) of conditions etc.

Taverham is quite weedy, and originally I fished it with an inline lead and tight lines semi-fixed. I did land a number of fish, but I was targeting the edge of lily pads and beds or gravel patches. I started getting swivels damaged when it crashed onto gravel, so I extended the neoprene sleeve over the hooklink swivel, and that appeared to be problem solved, although Phil ( Wamps) had a couple of fish move a long way in a perfect arc with no drop or rise on the indicator and no sound from the buzzer (I think this was just before the release of the vaunted Delkim), it was only watching the line from the rod tip that gave us notice of a take. I did try going to helicopter leads, but lost a number of fish where the swivel wore through the mainline, or the line fractured. Line twist was a major problem with any make of line with this set up, which bearing in mind it should be twist free was a weird one.

When I moved back to Suffolk and fished B pit, I moved onto helicopter leads and the original plastic coated Leadcore flyline, and found that indication with the tight line was slow. Fish could move a long way before you got any indication at the rod end, which if you had a bream on the end could be what appeared to be a liner, and then reset indicator, it went back to its original position. Tench would give a continual twitch up and down, bream a single bleep, then silence, and as Tim pointed out you could reel in a bream from a single bleep.
I did lose a couple of fish from the far side of a gravel bar, snapped above the leader, but figured the rig would be ejected as the beads could slide.

I started playing with running leads, no leaders as part of the rules, originally fishing them tight on Earith, as a bolt rig, and most of the time got good results, plenty of fish. Most indication was a proper run, no dropbacks.

Ardleigh and Suffolk Water Park was a case of running leads on a pendant set up with a leadcore leader, and fished slack. I was getting a series of bleeps from bream, and proper runs from carp. My reason for coming off this set up was Goblin and Jemsue questioning its safety, and when I lost a run at Suffolk Water Park, above the Leadcore to a cut off I started thinking about it. The Leadcore kept the line down no problems, but a fish which ran over and down the other side meant that the line got fragged and I got cut off.

At this point I really started experimenting with tight and slack lines, helicopter, semi-fixed and running on Thwaite. The best indication of all came to running leads and slack line, whichever way the fish ran, towards you, or away you got a run. The single bleep was usually the precursor to a proper run.
With semi-fixed pendant or inline leads if the fish ran away you got indication, however, you did get some single bleeps, which if you struck at could result in a fish or nothing. After being able to watch, head leaning over the far bank, and a mate casting it, I discovered that some of the single bleeps were proper takes, others were the rig being ejected, the fish just moving the lead on a tight line as it was being spat out.
Slack lines and semi-fixed leads meant that the fish could move a long way with no indication. Strangely this was in an arc as it ran along the bank, until the slack line had been taken up, or in the form of a dropback, with absolutely no movement on the indicator.

Helicopters were even more strange.
A rig fixed in position gave better indication than a running helicopter rig, basically the same as a standard semi-fixed, as long as it was on a tight line. As soon as fished on a slack line the indications were nil at the rod end.
With a running helicopter, the movement increased before any definite indication, on either a single bleep needed to be hit!
The carp could actually, slack or tight, take the rig up and down the mainline without any indication at the rod end. A number of fish were able to eject the rig without any more indication than a single bleep, and in some cases no indication.

This is what convinced me of the effectiveness of running leads, and big run rings. A small run ring (as in a lead clip) could clog up with detritus and become semi-fixed. In very silty areas it was better to fish a buoyant run ring with a lead link to the lead, so the run ring was not pulled into the silt. This also worked well in weed, better than a 'Chod' or helicopter rig.

However as has been pointed out, the line needed to be slack, needed to be 'laid' on the lakebed, sinking was never instant, could take as much as 20minutes, before putting a slack line indicator on at maximum drop.