Carp dietary requirements and digestive system

[johnplumb]

I thought this was an interesting read hopefully you will too

 

part 2: The digestive system and dietary requirements

Hi All

 

This post has taken me a while to get on top of, as there is a vast amount of information on carp nutriention some more helpful than others. In this post I will break it down so that I look at the carps digestive system first and how it is effected by temperature and then will go in to more detail about the types of nutrients that Carp need and why.

 

 

 

Carp and temperature

Carp are cold blooded fish and hence draw their heat from the water around them, hence when the water is hotter ie in the summer the fish will be more active and vice versa in the winter. The carps metabolims just like the carps activity is controlled via the water temperature. A carps digestion iss controlled by enzymes and enzymes have a set temperature that they work best at, if the fishes body temperature is not at the correct level the fish will not be able to metabolise the food as well and hence it will eat less. So in the later part of summer from August through until November the carp are active eating as much as they can ready for winter. This means there digestive system has to be able to handle the large amounts of food they eat. Summers like what we have had this year for carp could prove difficult as the water temperature will reflect the air temperature. This could mean that the period between now and winter for potentail affective carp feeding could be reduced as we have had some very unsummer like weather

 

Carp digestive system

In this section I plan to go in to some detail about the structure of the carps digestive system. But before this I want to clear up a couple of technical terms. The first one is chemical digestion and the second is physical digestion. Chemical digestion is digestion that is undertake by enzymes, the enzymes interact with the food and break it down into small fragments. The other is Physical digestion this is the process of physical movement of the fish ie chewing to break down the food it has eaten in to small pieces.

 

Once a carp has located a food item and it feels is safe to eat it it obtains it by using the mouth and the buccal cavity here it is broken down in to small pieces by phyiscal digestion using its pharyngeal teeth and grind ing the food against leather like pads. The purpose of this is to break the food down small enough ready to enter the gut. Any food that is not need to move forward in to the gut is ejected via the operculae (the gills)

 

 

Here we can see the pharyngeal teeth of a grass carp. These are used to break down the food ready for chemical digestion.

 

The next step in the digestion process is to transport the food from the buccal cavity to the start of the intestine. This is done by passing the ground food along the eosophagus to the start of the intestine and the receptive sack.

 

Carp unlike other fish do not have a stomach and because of this they do not break down there food with acid.Carp have instead an intestine that is twice the lenght of the fish. This will allow for digestion and absorption of the nutrients that the carp requires. As the food moves throught the fish it is broken down in to water soluble parts. This is done by the use of enzymes. Carp have to break down large insolubale molecules such as carbohydrates, protein, lipids and fats so that they can be used by the carp for its growth and maintainance. Below is an explanation of what enzymes are.

 

 

 

This picture shows the lenght of the carp gut. The lenght of the gut makes up for not having a stomach and allows for extra absorption of nutrients

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Enzymes for carp

Enzymes are defined as biological catalysts - catalysts are substances that increase the rate of chemical reactions without being used up. So what does that mean? Well for carp to digest its food it uses these enzymes to help break the food down in to useful products so that it can be used to fuel the carp for movement, growth etc. Another way of thinking about Enzymes is that they are like a glove you wear when it gets cold. The glove itself does not change but it speeds up the rate at which your hands warm up as it traps the warmth given off by your body. Enzymes speed up the breakdown of food but are not altered themselves. Carp have 100s of different types of enzymes in there bodies, all having a variety of different roles and functions. The ones I will be concentrate on are relating only to digestion. The one listed below are the most comon ones used and will give you an idea of the

 

An example of some of the enzymes responsible for the digestion in carp are as follows.

 

To digest Carbohydrates (sugars) Carbohydrases enzymes are needed an example of those are Amylases

 

 

Here is an example of what happens the enzyme break the long sugar molecule up into smaller parts that are easily absorbed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To digest Proteins a group of enzymes called is required. An example of these are Chymotrypsin and Trypsin.

 

 

 

Protein is broken down in to amino acids which are used for growth and repair in carp. The amino acids are also easily absorbed.

 

 

 

 

There are many more examples of carp enzymes that can be added but the above give you an idea of how they work. Often in baits now adays enzymes are added to the bait. This helps the carp to digest the food and hence encourages the carp to feed. This in tern should allow you to have a greater catch rate.

 

Absorption of nutrients

Once the carp has digested and its food it is absorded into the circulatory system. Like in all animals the circulatory and the digestive systems are linked. Without the interactions of both these systems the carp would not be able to survive as it would not be able to maintain its body functions. The food that it has digested and broken down in to water soluble bits could not be transported around the body if the two systems where not related.

 

I have delibertly simplified the carps digestive system because it would not aid this post to go in to much detail. The next question that should be asked is how can this information help us in the quest to catch carp? Well as we have already seen a carps metabolism is controlled by temperature. In the summer when the water temperature is higher digestion would be more efffective, there for more complex nutrients such as complex carbohydrates, proteins, fats and lipids are more easily digested so it makes sense to feed these in the summer months. These foods also promote growth, just like us the more protein or arbohydrate we eat the bigger we get. The same for carp in the summer they are trying to put on as much as weight as possible to get ready for the winter so they will target foods that will allow them to do this.

 

In winter the carps digestive system will slow down as the water temperature decreases and the ability of the enzymes to funtion at their optimun is decreased. Hence high protein or carbohydrate based bait would not be the best to target a carp with as they may not take the bait due to the effort it would take to digest the food. It would take more energy to digest the food than the carp would recieve from it and hence it would be unfavourable for the carp to do this.

 

Nutrient requirements

 

We have looked at how a carp breaks down it food and what enzymes are involved it is now time to look at what each nutrient does and why it is important to the fish. By having a good understanding of these it will help us to bait more wisely. There is little point in baiting up with a bait that would be great for summer but is next to useless in the winter and vice versa. Below I shall look at each nutrient explain a little about it and why a carp needs it and how this should be related to your fishing.

 

Carbohydrates

Carp like any another animal uses carbohydrates as an energy source for daily activity and like us they will store them as fats if they have to many. Unlike us and because carp do not have a stomach they are not able to break down complex carobohydrates (ones with lots of bonds) or in cold weather as there ability to digest food is reduced to reduced activity of enzyme action. There for in winter it would be advisable to use carbohydrates that are not complex and sweet, this may get you an extra bite as the carp would be more likely to take them as they would be easier to digest.

 

Protiens/amino acids

Carp need amino acids and protiens for growth and repair. Amino acids are used to construct DNA and Protiens. The ten types of amino acids that are needed for good growth in carp are arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine. Therefore if you are making your own bait and are wondering what type of amino acids would be the best then any of the above would be a good place to start. Remember carp are omnivours and will get a supply of amino acids form there environment. Trail and error will help you to discover the ones they are missing or needing. Also as mentioned above high protein feeds in winter would not be a great idea as it takes to much energy for the carp to break them down. The key to winter baits are high energy but easy to break down and digest.

 

Vitamins

 

Below is a table showing some of the common deficiniencies that can occur if carp do not have enough vitamins within there diet. This chart gives you a good guide about the things you should be aware of when looking at fish carp. It also gives you an idea about the role of individual vitamins and what you could add to your home made boilies. However what I would say here is that Vitamins only need to ne added in very small amounts. If you are not 100% confident with what you are doing do not do it. Buy a good base mix as these will contain the correct vitamins at the correct concentrations.

Vitamin Carp Cyprinus carpio

(mg/kg diet) Major vitamin deficiency signs in carps

Thiamin 2–3 Fin congestion, nervousness, fading of body colour.

Riboflavin 7.0 Skin and fin hemorrhages, mortality.

Pyridoxine 5–6 Nervous disorders

Pantothenic acid 30–50 Poor growth, anemia, skin hemorrhages, exophthalmia.

Nicotinic acid 28 Skin hemorrhages, mortality

Biotin 1 Poor growth

Folic acid N None detected

Vitamin B12 N None detected

Choline 500–600 Fatty liver

Inositol 440 Skin lesions

Ascorbic acid 30–50 Scoliosis and lordosis and impaired collagen formation

Vitamin A 10,000 IU Faded colour, exophthalmia, warped operculum, fin and skin hemorrhages

Vitamin D N Not tested

Vitamin E 200–300 Muscular dystrophy, mortality

Vitamin K N Not tested

 

 

Minerals

Carp need minerals for a variety of reasons these are for normal bone growth, tissue, blood plasma and hemoglobin formations and also for many enzymatic reactions. As minerals are not easy to obtain in an aquatic enviroment they are a very important to carp. In many boilies these are added to the boilie. Also carp will get there minerals from natural sources such as invertibrates. An important mineral that carp need is Calcium, this they absorb from water and the rest they get from their diet. The point here is that Carp need minerals to function and lead a healthy life. Having a good understanding of the dietary requirements of the fish allows us the tailor our bait to the needs of the fish depending on the time of the year.

 

Fat

Carp just like any other animal needs a source of fat as it provides a source of energy and can be used as a fuel store for the winter. In the Autumn you will noticed that carp increase their feeding rates this is because they are building themselves up for winter. As the water temperature drops the carps ability to digest high fat and high protein foods are reduced so they build themselves up before the water temperature drops. However just like us Carp do not need a hugh amount of fat as it will cause damage to the fish and even death.

 

Know your carp diet

 

Knowing what to feed carp with as an angler is a hugh advantage you are able to match your bait to the time of the year you are fishing. A good guide that I use is easily digested food in the winter which is low in fat and protein as it takes longer to digest and the carp are less likely to take it. In summer high fat and protein baits as they are easier to be digested and they carp are more likely to take this type of food type in the winter as it can break down the food and use it effectively. Again like I have said before think abit about our quarry and match your angling and you will be surprised with the effects.

 

I hope some of this helps gives you an understanding of the basics of carp dietary requirements. I have started work on Carp Biology Part 3. This will cover carp behaviour and how they interact with there surrounds including factors like pressure, wind direction and water temperature.

[ianain]

Very interesting read, thank you John

[Turnip]

Interesting read, John.

I guess the crux falls down to Amino?

Obviously, it also depends on what the fish is eating at any given time, just as it stands to reason that the size of the fish should be taken into account.

With over 100 Amino Acids to choose from within nature, the protein count of structures to build a protein is almost infinite, yet only 20 Amino Acids (EAA and NEAA) are required to sustain Carp, and even then, the total of 20 is a contentious figure to quote, however, working on the assumption of the 20 (*10 EAA* and 10 NEAA), research carried out by the learned has produced some marvellous reading.

On a daily basis, all things considered, and the Carp is a healthy fish, the daily requirement to maintain a healthy body is estimated to be very close to 1g per kilo of body weight, and for maximum Protein retention it is estimated to be 12g per kilo of body weight. However, the efficiency of Nitrogen utilization for Carp growth is estimated to be between 7g and 8g per kilo of body weight, with Crude Protein ranging from 30% to 38% being the optimal. As stated previously, this depends entirely on the diet that the Carp is eating and providing the diet contains sufficient digestible energy, the optimal Protein level can drop from 30%-38% to a level of between 30% and 35%.

As mentioned above, the required intake differs depending on fish size, health of the fish at time of feeding, but studies carried out has given results as such:

 

Essential Amino Acid daily requirements

 

Arginine ---------- 4.3% of Protein ------------- 6.4% of Diet

Histidine-----------2.1% of Protein ------------- 0.8% of Diet

Isoleucine --------2.5% of Protein --------------0.9% of Diet

Leucine -----------3.3% of Protein --------------1.3% of Diet

Lysine -------------5.7% of Protein --------------2.2% of Diet

Methionine -------2.1% of Protein --------------0.8% of Diet

Phenylalanine ---3.4% of Protein --------------1.4% of Diet

Threoline ---------3.9% of Protein --------------1.5% of Diet

Trytophan --------0.8% of Protein --------------0.3% of Diet

Valine -------------3.6% of Protein --------------1.4% of Diet

 

Cysteine and Tyrosine can spare or even replace certain amounts of dietary requirement as is Methionine and Phenylalanine and as such, the reading(s) where relevant is thus:

 

Cysteine ----------5.2% of Protein --------------2.0% of Diet

Tyrosine ----------2.6% of Protein ---------------1.0% of Diet

 

*The figure 10 EAA could be 9 EAA and 11 NEAA due to inconclusive study into Histidine. Some research states it is EAA whilst other research has stated it could be NEAA. Either way, it is, for topical debate in this conversation, being classed as an EAA.

 

I 100%, whole-heartedly agree with your comment regarding bait, John. If you don't know what you're feeding them, how do we know it is good for them?

[Gazlaaar]

Turnip

I hope you don't mind me asking but, amino's, pH levels and enzymes all have a very close relationship, wouldn't an effective amino depend on the pH level in the water your fishing, and seeing as pH levels fluctuate, I would assume this would make deciding which amino's are best very hard indeed.

Or would using a number of amino's cater for most pH fluctuations.

[Gazlaaar]

I have a big interest in baits, making my own, and I genuinely think this is the only area that carp fishing can progress.

[muftyboy]

The theory that carp will reject a bait a bait after a while because it doesn't fulfill there dietary requirements doesn't wash with me, if that was the case then why have I caught more carp on bread then any other bait?

[Gazlaaar]

I just have a genuine interest in bait, im one of those people who likes to understand what works and why

[salokcinnodrog]

 

 

John, really good write up.

 

 

Same here as Gary

 

If a water existed with only weeds as a food source, then the carp would suffer as some of the essential amino acids have to be provided for by animal proteins.

 

Yes, carp have lived for thousands of years long before our interference, but our interference has improved growth rates.

 

The Romans were using carp as a food source, which makes feeding them likely to have been going on for 2000 years.

 

Why does a fish get wary of a bait?

Regular catching, learning by association.

 

Why does a bait that does not fulfil all dietary needs catch?

The first requirement that has to be fulfilled is that of energy. As it happens, bread is high in carbohydrates, which are an energy source, and also a fairly quick transfer from digestion to energy.

They require the energy to break down the proteins.

 

In addition, baits/food sources can work together, basically like the particle and food boilie approach, and it does not have to be an individual anglers baits.

The particles are providing the carbohydrates, and some easily digested fat sources as energy, and the boilie provides the minerals and useable proteins.

 

Add into that, the sweet on the table. I can be totally full up, stuffed to the gills (sic!), but put a chocolate mint by my coffee after dinner and I will.

 

Your bread could be providing that sweetie, or high visibility attraction.

[Gazlaaar]

I still remain convinced that a good nutritional bait will out score any other bait, long term.

Yes if you put any bait in front of a hungry carp it will get taken, but when your fishing blind, and lets be honest we all fish blind to a certain degree, you are relying on a good quality bait to catch you fish.

It also comes down to how you fish as well, if your fishing a lot of waters a good shelf bought bait will pay dividends. However if your concentrating on one particular water for a length of time your better off using a good nutritional profiled bait to keep the fish eating again and again.

You can by some very nutritious, good baits now, but most of them have high attractor levels which can with time be associated with danger.

Which is where making your own comes into its own, you can make any shape, any buoyancy, you can even change something as simple as the flavour label, should your catch rates start to slow up, hence the interest in amino's and other attractors. I am relatively new to making my own and I have a very big thirst to know more, all in a step of maybe giving my baits that extra 1%.

[Turnip]

Hi nm,

For the third time of trying to reply to you. (Reply disappears when pressing post. Hopefully this works)

 

The ph reading will very rarely be the same from 1 month to the next (not a truly accurate reading), but, I certainly accept that it plays a major part in attraction - obviously dependant on topography, depth, size, temperature, fish mass, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc, etc, - and I am also a firm believer in that a perfect bait will never be produced by human. How can it be possible. With so many connotations available on a specific lake, in say, Birmingham - it would be utter madness to think the fish in a lake the same size in the South of France would require the same diet in the month of May? .

As research carried out shows, water with a higher ph was/is detrimental to fish. It slows the brain of a Carp down. (If you read some of the replies here, you'll soon see who has been drinking water with a ph of 36 ) With the slowing down in mind, and the benefits that Glutaminic has as a dietary 'requirement', personally I class it as the most important part of the puzzle. It certainly outweighs my concerns of ph change.

As with the results I posted above - the research was carried out on Common Carp by feeding a single source, highly digestible, Fishmeal diet. (Nose, Watanabe)

What I can say with *certainty* - a bait with a correct balance of Amino Acid will always be better for a Carp over a period of time/adjustment than a bait that contains 'quick fix' ingredients. Regardless of water ph. As an example to my thought process  Certain times of the year, especially if we, here in the UK, are lucky enough to have hot, decent weather early on in the year, could see Carp spawn more than once. With spawning comes the inevitable injury - be it, as we humans would call it - physical as well as mental stress. Feeding a bait which contains the Amino's to help the Carp recover from the ordeal, in my opinion, has nothing to do with ph of the water. However, feeding a bait whereby the ingredients contain the Amino Acid to help recover, plays a vital part.

Also, just as I mentioned Glutaminic - Cysteine is another AA that, personally, I believe plays a major part. The quicker it comes out - the quicker the proteins are working - the more bait the Carp is eating - the closer it is to the fish taking the hook-bait.

 

In short, nm - I believe the difference that ph makes is vast - but I also believe that Carp are clever.

 

 

*certainty* - I am certain - I am confident in my appraisal - it does not make my appraisal correct.

[Gazlaaar]

Thank you for your reply Turnip, its funny you mention, Glutaminic, (monosodium Glutamate) as I was talking to a good friend of mine discussing the 5th taste bud (umami) the other day.It hasn't long been officially recognised as a taste bud,so I believe, hmmmm

Edited May 29, 2015 by nm01

[bishops]

it is interesting John, but carp have been around longer than we have, it smacks of the toothpaste  food for astronauts, give me a burger anyday, give them the particle, they love it, sometimes its down to taste not a scientific analysis of whats good for you, but thanks it is interesting.

 

&

 

why bother worrying about it, its very interesting but these fish have existed for millions of years before man

Sorry these statements are just plain wrong, carp as we know them today (Cyprinus carpio) evolved around 10,000 years ago

[johnplumb]

Here is another something to read I remember it from some years back . Not sure what it means but again some may find it interesting

 

 

Many companies claim to have found a revolutionary new flavouring or additive that fish just can't resist, it is after all a potentially profitable business so it's hardly surprising that these claims are made all the time. Unfortunately most of these so called innovations are more successful at catching customers than fish.

Because of our usual cynicism and dislike for the general angling scene we have been reluctant to enter the bait market and have always restricted our research to developing and expanding our knowledge of fish behaviour and dietary requirements. As the years have passed we have gradually developed and refined our research program with the help of I.S.H.A members, Supafish and a few very trusted anglers.

PROTEX 3A is a totally new concept and unlike anything ever seen before. Every aspect of this new science is completely unique.

A bold statement but true none the less.

The way PROTEX 3A is used and the reasoning behind its success is quite simply revolutionary.

At the moment we have no intention or releasing details of the neural trigger Protex onto the general market or any intention to make the product available commercially but this new approach to understanding innate fish behaviour is a fascinating subject and one which will certainly spark a great deal of controversy .

 

The trigger itself has been developed over the course of around 15 years and was never intended as a commercial exercise. Understanding fish behaviour was a natural requirement of our research program and feeding habits were obviously of prime importance.

The information gathered from our unique relationship with ISHA and work in our own labs inevitably led to trials relating to baits as a secondary issue.

The trials themselves were conducted in an entirely different way with the most important factor being that we use underwater cameras and proximity sensors, rather than just throw a bait out to see if a fish picked it up which is all any other company has ever done, we can actually monitor every fish that comes within 12 feet of the bait.

As a result we gradually began to see a whole new aspect of fish behaviour that for many years completely baffled us but gradually the picture became clear as the data and observations began to make sense and produced a quite remarkable line of research. We experimented further on genuinely natural Carp in Kerr lake, North Carolina. These fish are incredibly difficult to catch and are not influenced by angling pressure simply because no one ever fishes for them, they were ideal candidates for the final trials.

To understand the principles behind Protex 3a you will have to forget everything you think you may know about not only Carp but fish in general as this new approach does not rely on either flavour or appearance, in fact neither of these has anything to do with the feeding response at all.

 

Our research program into fish behaviour in general has cost well over £1.5 million so we are obviously reluctant to share more information than we have to but we'll try and give you an idea of how the system works without getting too detailed.

To understand the basics you must forget all the usual methods used by bait companies and completely ignore taste, colour, shape etc as none of these have anything to do with why a fish feeds. We realise that statement will sound odd but bear with us. Try to look at the fish as a simple organism that survives without preferences, likes or dislikes and feeds not for pleasure but purely because it needs nutrients to survive. There are of course Carp fisheries where they have become boilie buckets and their behaviour has adapted to respond to anglers influence but even these shadows of true carp respond to our baits simply because they have to, Protex 3a is a trigger, not a bait in the strictest terms.

As an organism the fish itself is continually monitored by parts of the brain that examine all aspects of its condition, vitamin requirements, energy levels etc etc. When the brain detects a deficiency or nutritional requirement it switches on the appropriate receptor and the fish responds.

Remarkably these receptors are on the outside of the fish, not inside the mouth.

To make this easier to understand try to imagine the outside of the fish covered in microscopic holes of varying shapes, for example squares, triangles, rectangles etc etc. Each of these relates to a particular nutrient, amino acid and so on. These 'doors' are usually closed but once the brain detects that a particular requirement of the body is in need of replenishing it opens the corresponding receptor and the fish swims off in search of the nutrient. This is an entirely reactive response rather than rational thought. As the fish swims along the outside of its skin is bombarded with a whole range of particles which it is entirely oblivious to. Almost all the shapes relating to naturally occurring food bounce off the closed receptors as they are not required at that specific time until particles of the right shape go through the open door and the fish responds by instinctively following the trail to the source. This is one of the reasons why a bait will work brilliantly one day but completely fails the next because the comparative trigger has been turned off. In fact we have watched fish on many occasions completely ignore something they would have eaten the day before and swim right over it as though it wasn't there. Sometimes a fish will investigate a bait, nudge it etc but eventually ignore it purely because the trigger contained within it is insufficiently strong to stimulate a clear response usually because there are just too many other 'shapes' confusing the issue. This has nothing to do with taste.

The next problem for us was to identify the triggers or shapes that act as receptors on the outside of the fish and discover what nutrient they related to, not an easy task.

Slowly we began to compile a list of common triggers, of the thousands we think exist, all of which we formulated chemically. Each had to be identified individually as there would be no point whatsoever in producing a feed that contained all the nutrients in one go as the particle trail left in the water would not be specific enough, too muddled if you like to effectively get a strong instinctive response from the fish.

The next problem, that has taken many more years to solve, was to try and guess what trigger was the most likely one to be switched on at any given time in a specific environment as all lakes vary from day to day, sometimes even changing hour by hour. Every lake is like its own individual planet and will have its own naturally occurring deficiencies, tendencies and so on. To say this was a complicated task is somewhat of an understatement ! Put the wrong trigger in at any given moment and it simply will not work. On top of this is the fact that each fish is an individual entity in its own right and often subject to genetic imbalances.

It is a very complicated subject which in one way is why we are prepared to go public as it were because we know that no other company could possibly reproduce the research we have carried out for many years, it would take any competitors a great deal of time, effort and money to produce a comparative bait, in fact we could never have done it ourselves if it hadn't been an integral part of other related research programs. We have also of course spent a lot of time and effort protecting the bait by incorporating literally hundreds of 'fake' chemical triggers within the formula that have no effect on the fish at all so anyone analyzing the contents of the product will get absolutely nowhere when trying to identify the active ingredients.

 

Finally, we needed to incorporate something that would help the angler identify the most likely trigger at any given time or location without having to have an advanced research based degree in marine biology ! This took even more time. What we have ended up with is a harmless liquid that is included in the bait kit, similar in looks to say a pH tester. The colour response when dipped in the lake will relate to a colour code on the bait itself and each box contains six colours. The corresponding bait is then selected ( this is not in boilie form incidentally ) and fished as a single entity with no free offerings. The bait itself will remain effective for around 6hrs depending on conditions. There is no point in it lasting any longer as if it hasn't been taken during that period, either the angler has chosen the wrong trigger or the fish just aren't feeding.

The system is species specific in that it will only work on Carp. Research into other species is ongoing.

 

That's a very basic but we hope sufficient outline of the system itself. As you can see, it really is a revolutionary and very advanced bait system that is many years ahead of current research and thinking.

If you wish to take the matter further you will need to contact our Managing Director, Steve Marriot, initially via email to admin@diobas.com and write 'Managing Directors Office' in the subject line.

[newmarket]

Interesting thread this . Of course , being a Neanderthal man i dont understand a word of it .

 

Interesting nevertheless

[johnplumb]

it means some yank claims to have invented some super boilie.

That is what you got from that ? They are based in Devon I think and are not a bait company did you not find it interesting in any way shape or form ?

[Turnip]

You are not neanderlithic, Tim.

Being an 'ammer, your arms are longer. :razz: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Edited May 29, 2015 by Turnip

[bishops]

Even that is long before the boilie, sadly the wildie is now on the official red list of endangered species, there used to be loads of them and now a few estate lakes are there final haven, is it right.

No not quite, every larger animal is on the red list, it's where they are on the red list that matters, wild carp are only listed as vunrable on the red list, not endagered. http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/6181/0but it is currently impossible to identify pure carp by genetic analysis, so it's very likely, only very few stocks remain genetically unpolluted from the more domesticated populations.

[newmarket]

No not quite, every larger animal is on the red list, it's where they are on the red list that matters, wild carp are only listed as vunrable on the red list, not endagered. http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/6181/0but it is currently impossible to identify pure carp by genetic analysis, so it's very likely, only very few stocks remain genetically unpolluted from the more domesticated populations.

Welcome to the forum your grace .

 

Bath & wells ?

[androoooo]

The one I pointed you to is completely different to what John posted here from that company.

 

One I sent talked a lot on enzymes but difficulties incorporating in a bait. As they are temperature and ph dependent and their inclusion will start to break down a bait so it's unusable on a hook.

 

The one that John posted is about creating a chemical signal with no food source/substance behind it and attracting carp through meeting a deficiency it has and is seeking out.

 

This thread had some great potential to educate and enhance people's knowledge. Maybe it will get going with people who understand bait and can add positively to it.

[newmarket]

The one I pointed you to is completely different to what John posted here from that company.

 

One I sent talked a lot on enzymes but difficulties incorporating in a bait. As they are temperature and ph dependent and their inclusion will start to break down a bait so it's unusable on a hook.

 

The one that John posted is about creating a chemical signal with no food source/substance behind it and attracting carp through meeting a deficiency it has and is seeking out.

 

This thread had some great potential to educate and enhance people's knowledge. Maybe it will get going with people who understand bait and can add positively to it.

Lets hope so.......

[bishops]

Welcome to the forum your grace .

 

Bath & wells ?

A fellow black adder fan I feel there is a lot still to do with carp nutrition and finding feeding responces to chemical and nutritional triggers, what made me join and post was the finding and dispersal of knowlage in this field can only help in the long run and it's not to be poopooed as you well know "what more evidence do you need? The poo-pooing alone is a court-martial offence!"

[Gazlaaar]

Oh, I'm sorry, sir. I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation

 

Sorry, I just had too, one of my favourite lines

[newmarket]

A fellow black adder fan I feel there is a lot still to do with carp nutrition and finding feeding responces to chemical and nutritional triggers, what made me join and post was the finding and dispersal of knowlage in this field can only help in the long run and it's not to be poopooed as you well know "what more evidence do you need? The poo-pooing alone is a court-martial offence!"

Absolutely , theres more and more information available these days and it is fascinating hearing all the different bits and bobs that people find .

 

Welcome once again

[Turnip]

Shame on you for discombobulating a Pork Chop! You should know it is impossible to edjumikayte Pork! 

 

Vicar, you've been promoted. Don't suppose you want more tea? :mrgreen:

 

Androoooo -

 

Pineapple. Got to be pineapple, unless of course you have managed to utilise synsepalum dulcificum, which I'm sure you will agree - would really ficum up!

[androoooo]

Turnip I only commented to clear up an inaccuracy associated to my name. Maybe someone else will want to have the discussion.

 

There's too much hyperbole, conjecture and incongruence on the board for me to want to contribute.