willi4692 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Korda recently announced their new "Heli-Safe" system and are touting that it revolutionises the safety of helicopter rigs. For anyone that doesn't know, it is a form of clip that drops the lead on the end of the helicopter set up. People have been dropping leads on the end of helicopter rigs for years, but I have always considered doing so as unsafe. My thoughts are that the lead acts as a vital piece in allowing the fish to be able to free itself from the trailing line or leadcore in the event of a cut or crack off. The lead pins itself to the bottom, leaving the fish and the rig to slide up the trailing line and off the end. Without the lead on the line, there is no counter weight to aid the fish in freeing itself and the fish could be left trailing long lengths of line that can lead to them becoming tethered, and ultimately condemned to death. Please let me know your thoughts and let me know if I'm missing some information about this product that makes it safer than it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 i totally agree with you willi. nash are releasing a similar item,though it looks less stream lined. and both are being branded as "safe" ...well it can only be safe if the lines connected to rod and reel, and then yeah i guess loosing the lead makes things slightly safer when playing a fish in and around snags... but its like they ignore the fact that crack offs and breakages happen occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborx Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 looks to me like SAFE no longer means safe, its now just synonymous with 'more money in the bank' would be interesting to get danny and kevins take on the SAFETY aspect tho. salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpbell Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Never been a fan of dropping the lead, must be the environmentalist coming out salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I dont think k use the term "safe" in the sense that we understand it tbh although some people , usually the young and inexperienced fall for it. Maybe im just losing it in my old age . What i really need is somebody to explain to me , in words of not many syllables, how a helicopter rig that drops the lead is safe ? In the event of a break AFTER the lead ejection , HOW is the carp supposed to get rid of the leader ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Korda originally used the term 'Safe Zone' I think it was; not as safe in terms of angler use, but 'safe' for the fish to feed in the area, i.e. the tackle was camouflaged, hidden or difficult to see. It did not in any way make it safe for the angler to use it, and some of the products (leaders etc), made it not at all safe in terms of breakages, the risk of fish towing leads around and the potential for tethered fish. Having recovered a snapped off Safezone leader, attached to many metres of line, with a plastic bait on the end, and a lead that would not release all jammed up with weed, it definitely does not make it safe! As others have said, my view is that using helicopters, you need the lead on the end of a leader system, so that the leader does not fold in the middle preventing the rig being ejected at all. A Heli-safe system will only be safe if not using a leader, but cannot be used where there is any snag, weed or anything that could catch up on the line, andf the rig must be able to be ejected. Again, I do NOT like ejecting the lead, unless I absolutely have to, to prevent a fish becoming snagged up. In most cases I don't need to drop the lead on the take, and even in weed, using an inline lead there is often no need to drop the lead, even more so if using zipp shaped inlines as the weed will pass over it. I understand that tackle manufacturers have a need to make money, its a business world out there. Problem is that as anglers, you only really need a lead on the line that can be ejected safely in a break off or snag, attached to a hooklink with a hook and bait on the end, and to fish that safely, you don't need to buy loads of tackle, yet tackle manufacturers wouldn't exist if that is all we bought newmarket 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Ejecting the lead on every take is the biggest load of old tosh I've heard in all my years fishing. The ridiculous reason that most sponsored money grabbers anglers give is that you are 'in direct contact with the fish'. Rubbish, there are 16 ounces in a pound, so a five pound fish weighs 80 ounces, what difference is even a four ounce lead going to make? cyborx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborx Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Ejecting the lead on every take is the biggest load of old tosh I've heard in all my years fishing. yeh but it do generate some revenue, if 500 anglers around the country use those rigs on any one particular day, they catch an average of 3 fish each and they drop the lead on each one. at around £2.00 per lead and taken over say a six month period that only equates to £18000 so even if the lead isnt dropped on every one. still a lot of wonga init Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Ejecting the lead on every take is the biggest load of old tosh I've heard in all my years fishing. The ridiculous reason that most sponsored money grabbers anglers give is that you are 'in direct contact with the fish'. Rubbish, there are 16 ounces in a pound, so a five pound fish weighs 80 ounces, what difference is even a four ounce lead going to make? yeh but it do generate some revenue, if 500 anglers around the country use those rigs on any one particular day, they catch an average of 3 fish each and they drop the lead on each one. at around £2.00 per lead and taken over say a six month period that only equates to £18000 so even if the lead isnt dropped on every one. still a lot of wonga init It is not just the money from ejecting the lead on every take, but litter. If you walked down the road, and every 100metres or so you threw a lead away it would be classed as littering. Now equate that to fishing, every time you lose eject a lead on the take you are effectively littering the lakebed. It is not just the lead you are ejecting either, it is a plastic coating, usually a copper insert for the loop and a swivel which is some other metal, or for just an inline, the plastic coating and insert, which are elements which do NOT break down in the environment in a hurry. Years ago, when my leads were dead, bashed, cratered, pitted etc, and beyond even marker rod use, I would give them to a friend of mine. He would then melt them down, and then use the lead for new leads. The copper insert would go into our copper pile for scrap and melting down. Effectively, our green and pleasant society has forgotten how to recycle, despite the various coloured nice big bins we have. Glass bottles, deposit for the children to take back to the local shop, or milk bottles every day, cleaned, re-used recycled. Tin foil, taken to the local shop, and a payment made for the amount (and the occasional stone when we wanted to bilk, sorry bulk out ) This 'fad' for apparent rig safety and ejecting the lead is simply that, a fad, as tackle manufacturers have discovered that they need to make money, and more (and more and more) tackle manufacturers mean the slices of cake that they eat are getting smaller. Rig safety is not rig safety as it stands any more, many many items of tackle are sold which are dangerous to the fish (don't give me that sticking hooks thingy argument), ready made leadcore leaders in inline and pendant set-ups, even helicopter ones. They are sold, not because they are safe, but because tackle manufacturers have discovered a market for people who will buy them. They may be the least dangerous available, or properly manufactured, but are not fish friendly in the event of a crack off. It is not just one manufacturer, sorry, it is many, in fact just about any tackle manufacturer sells a ready made system. As I said in my previous post, all you need is a lead attached to the line, preferably on a John Roberts Lead attachment , a swivel or quick link and your hooklink and hook at the end of it. The original innovator I think was John Roberts, many tackle manufacturers have ideas copied from him, but these items from his brand are not fashionable at the moment, but are often the best for tackle. Just look at this page of John Roberts tackle, the tackle shop chosen was picked totally at random, so sorry to any other shop: http://www.thetackle-shop.co.uk/section121/John-Roberts-Products.html Items that will work now as they did 20+ years ago, and many better than some of the more modern names. newmarket 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Re john roberts terminal tackle . Not only is it not fashionable its usually cheap as a result . And , imo , often the best for the job at hand . My tackle box has plenty of it salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I have deleted a post on here for swearing. I would normally just edit them, but I had no idea what the post was trying to say, even with the swear words in it?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpbell Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 I have deleted a post on here for swearing. I would normally just edit them, but I had no idea what the post was trying to say, even with the swear words in it??????There wasn't a swear word in it as such, just the site auto edit kicking in, due to the gap in the armour phrase, it's the same if you type the slang for a take away. shame that, it's a good old English phrase. The post was about another anglers views on the lead set up for some zig rigs, oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 im not 100% sure , but they both(nash/korda) (or just one of them)only drop the lead when you tighten down to the fish and the hook link hits the clip.... i read this since posting but cant remember where any way , if true then i guess the lead would stay on if a fish picked up a cracked off rig, what d'you think??? very small chance i guess the fish would swim towards the lead with the force needed to bump the release mechanism.....not sure as iv not held one in my hand to have a play... but it could actually be safer than pva held leads, weak links ect.....so maybe step forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willi4692 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 I had a little chat with Ali Hamidi, via twitter, about this product. He was quick to state that it's just like using a lead clip and that fish trail line regularly (doesn't really answer how that's safe). I then mentioned the fashion of using leadcore with helicopter set ups and my fears of fish trailing long lengths of the stuff, to which he replied "never use more than 2ft of leadcore. None of us do". I think the "None of us do" remark meant the Korda team, which is clearly false as Danny Fairbrass has a video on the Korda site of him using a six foot length of leadcore for a chod rig and the packaging of Kable (Korda's leadcore) recommends five feet! I replied stating this and Mr Hamidi hasn't responded since. salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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