Gaz Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 not sure about cat hooks tbh, bit barbaric for carp but i do think that bigger hooks AND/OR heavier weights could be the way forward. as beanz said, if they are picking it up then they dont know its a trap, so by saying that we have tricked them up BUT just not hooking them. last week i dont a 24 and had a big time drop back, wound down into nothing. i KNOW i was done more than once on that session, dont know how i know but i just know (its that gut instinct that says i failed) gonna step up hook size first and see how it goes, then if nothing or the same then a bigger mould for bigger leads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Now to those that find my post amusing, now I will put it right! Now sit down and I shall begin! Are you sitting comfortly.........................Then I shall begin! OK forget the palm tests............Bla bla! Now I shall explain! Imagine that you open your mouth..........and a friend inserts a cocktail stick into your mouth! The said "stick" has neadle sharp ends, and is placed in your mouth 100% horizontal, and is touching both sides of your mouth! Make sence? Then try to spit it out ( no hands, as Mr Carp) Now tell me it does not work! By the mechanics I have set into the rig, It is too difficult for MR Carp to deal with and unlike any rig he has seen before! When I am on the bank............I am a hunter............everthing has to be perfect! And everything is thought through as if I was a Carp myself!!! My lead set up is designed with the same thought applied, my bobbins are set at exactly the length as my rig and back stop! So ...................if the bobbin moves, I have a hooked fish! Simple when you understand what is happening.................Just take a time out to "think outside of the box" And you will see things with different eye's! Try It, the view is wonderful! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Try getting that same said cocktail stick into your mouth to the position you describe, no hands! Not trying to suggest your wrong or mocking you in any way kev. Just, I do have an open mind and like to understand things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoogi Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 i remember a link that i think stoogie put up, to a free online mag...that had a really interesting article where the guy had started to use cat fish hooks....it does seem obvious thinking about it that a small hook in a big mouth will have lower chance to hook when being ejected. Good memory. It opened my eyes too. Sadly many fisheries have restrictions on hook size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemsue5 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Now i see what you are saying Kev but to suck in something large enough to stick both sides of my gob would be almost impossible with out it hitting the outside of my lips etc on the way in. The old Frank warwick anchor rig comes to mind and yes i have used that to catch a few. I just dont believe from the best part of 30 years carping that any super efficient rig is out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemsue5 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 i remember a link that i think stoogie put up, to a free online mag...that had a really interesting article where the guy had started to use cat fish hooks....it does seem obvious thinking about it that a small hook in a big mouth will have lower chance to hook when being ejected. Good memory. It opened my eyes too. Sadly many fisheries have restrictions on hook size. It was in Freespool mag and yes i have a saying that for small carp use a big hook, for bigger carp use an even bigger hook. I use size 2s for barbel fishing so a hook that size aint no problem for a carp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Guy's sorry but it may be the STROKE effects talking! Whe I used a "cocktail" stick, that was only an example! But is how my rig works OK? The rig once taken in cannot be ejected..................Imposible! Even the most "clued up" Carp is knackerd once in his mouth,..........the only way is for him to back off very, very slowly! And with every move, he increases the chance a hookhold! and once he panicks, the lead system comes into play, he bolts in panic, the lead hits the stop, and the bobbin hits the rod! As I said, easy if you have taken years of time to undestand..................If not..............watch the next exciting Korda show.........ENJOY! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Guy's sorry but it may be the STROKE effects talking! Whe I used a "cocktail" stick, that was only an example! But is how my rig works OK? The rig once taken in cannot be ejected..................Imposible! Even the most "clued up" Carp is knackerd once in his mouth,..........the only way is for him to back off very, very slowly! And with every move, he increases the chance a hookhold! and once he panicks, the lead system comes into play, he bolts in panic, the lead hits the stop, and the bobbin hits the rod! As I said, easy if you have taken years of time to undestand..................If not..............watch the next exciting Korda show.........ENJOY! x No one is saying your rig don't work. Just that it is highly unlikely that there is one rig out there that will have a 99% hook up rate. If that were the case........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnplumb Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 How is it possible to know how effective a rig is ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpdawe Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 I have done a few searches on the forums for korda hooks and the majority are coming back with negative feedback so I am changing those as suggested, as for the size of the hook comment I am also looking into this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Guy's sorry but it may be the STROKE effects talking! Whe I used a "cocktail" stick, that was only an example! But is how my rig works OK? The rig once taken in cannot be ejected..................Imposible! Even the most "clued up" Carp is knackerd once in his mouth,..........the only way is for him to back off very, very slowly! And with every move, he increases the chance a hookhold! and once he panicks, the lead system comes into play, he bolts in panic, the lead hits the stop, and the bobbin hits the rod! As I said, easy if you have taken years of time to undestand..................If not..............watch the next exciting Korda show.........ENJOY! x No one is saying your rig don't work. Just that it is highly unlikely that there is one rig out there that will have a 99% hook up rate. If that were the case........ Nige. I'm not after a row! My points are fact, OK.........my posting was to inspire young guys in this passtime, thats all, and if old dogs like yourself don't get it, then so be it! Im not going to argue, as I now 100% I am correct! Nige that stops the debate here and now! Tack it or laeve it as you deem it! I dont care............but 1 thing is that my rig, catches..........and a few I may add! Enjoy the next instalment of Korda! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Kev, not after any argument mate. Just an open and honest debate around rigs that, as you say, may inspire others or myself to think and adapt. There is no doubt in my mind that your rig works. Maybe you could explain the theory behind the rig? You know I won't be asking you to describe it in detail, no need for that. You may help a few people turn things around in there fishing. Like the original poster for instance, who is having trouble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Kev, not after any argument mate. Just an open and honest debate around rigs that, as you say, may inspire others or myself to think and adapt. There is no doubt in my mind that your rig works. Maybe you could explain the theory behind the rig? You know I won't be asking you to describe it in detail, no need for that. You may help a few people turn things around in there fishing. Like the original poster for instance, who is having trouble? I have desribed the rig Nige...............beleive............if \\\i get a single beep............that means a hooked Carp..............if not it's a liner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Kev, not after any argument mate. Just an open and honest debate around rigs that, as you say, may inspire others or myself to think and adapt. There is no doubt in my mind that your rig works. Maybe you could explain the theory behind the rig? You know I won't be asking you to describe it in detail, no need for that. You may help a few people turn things around in there fishing. Like the original poster for instance, who is having trouble? I have desribed the rig Nige...............beleive............if \\\i get a single beep............that means a hooked Carp..............if not it's a liner! Before the beep on the buzzer or the movement on the bobbin/line, do you think the fish has mouthed/picked up the bait any number of times before? I think, or rather know, I get done loads before hooking up. Yep, I can change things to improve the ratio but what works for one fish may not work for another. I try to find a happy medium as I am not fishing for one target at the moment. I am on a new water that I just want to get to grips with. If I was fishing for one or maybe two target fish then I would be doing all I could to get the information needed to know I was using the optimum rig and baiting situation for that said fish. This would come from watching it feed (where this is possible), other anglers catches of her/him along with other lines of inquiry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Now they are "wise words" Indeed Nige! A few weeks ago, I had a conversation with my great old friend Ozzy over coffee in the sunshine! He told me the story of how he caught the Burghfield Common just a week before at over 50+! When you are talking of Carp angling at this high level, then lbs are irelivant! Oz was my tea boy and I gave him his first full time job! I showed my rig to Austin, he said that's the nuts! Ok he has just landed one of the most sought after Carp in the world, and he hollds the British record @ !!! 67.14lbs! Not bad for my old tea Boy! So I will stick with my own " simple" rig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Thinking about this more, I reckon that the baiting situation has 10 times more importance than the rig (as long as the rig is a good one). You need them to feed before you even get chance of them picking up your bait. A good rig, suited to the bait your using and allowing that bait to be presented efficiently, will do for me. As said, specific fish targeting would have me delve deeper into this but it would still be lead by the feeding situation I want, or rather need, to get that one fish to pick up my hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 what do you mean by that nige..the pattern of bait around hook or pre baiting ....as if you mean where you place your hook bait??...you should make it clearer ... iv had enough on just a single hook baits to think the "baiting" is for the anglers confidence and the bait makers pocket.. a sharp in hook in the right place is 100 times ...make that infinity times how much bait and how you apply it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 what do you mean by that nige..the pattern of bait around hook or pre baiting ....as if you mean where you place your hook bait??...you should make it clearer ... iv had enough on just a single hook baits to think the "baiting" is for the anglers confidence and the bait makers pocket.. a sharp in hook in the right place is 100 times ...make that infinity times how much bait and how you apply it Fishing a single would come under the same banner of 'bait application' in my mind Beanz. Pre baiting, free offerings, fishing singles, bags - all would be described as bait application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Thinking about this more, I reckon that the baiting situation has 10 times more importance than the rig (as long as the rig is a good one). You need them to feed before you even get chance of them picking up your bait. A good rig, suited to the bait your using and allowing that bait to be presented efficiently, will do for me. As said, specific fish targeting would have me delve deeper into this but it would still be lead by the feeding situation I want, or rather need, to get that one fish to pick up my hook. Wise words Nige! Location is still No1 for me! Then bait application, I understand your statement on baiting with boilies, however my rig is just as effective over particles..................Grat thread this one! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 You need them to feed before you even get chance of them picking up your bait. . but this line is misleading...as a hivis pop up i dont think hooks them because they are feeding, it the "what thats" factor and they mouth it,may be with no intention of feeding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 You need them to feed before you even get chance of them picking up your bait. . but this line is misleading...as a hivis pop up i dont think hooks them because they are feeding, it the "what thats" factor and they mouth it,may be with no intention of feeding Your right mate - it is misleading. With a single, hi vis bait or over flavoured bait for instance, you are sort of enticing them to take a taste even though they may not be feeding. That is an act of bait application though - you’re not trying to get them on the munch as you believe, at that moment in time, they don't want a big feed - just an inquisitive taste. Any sort of big baiting approach in this situation would probably hinder your chances? It still wouldn't make much difference if that single bait was presented on a 'standard' pop up rig, a chod or a hinged stiff rig for instance. It’s the baiting strategy that is getting you the pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 it must just be me iv always interpreted bait application/strategy as freebies and location/spots as rig placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 You need them to feed before you even get chance of them picking up your bait. . but this line is misleading...as a hivis pop up i dont think hooks them because they are feeding, it the "what thats" factor and they mouth it,may be with no intention of feeding Your right mate - it is misleading. With a single, hi vis bait or over flavoured bait for instance, you are sort of enticing them to take a taste even though they may not be feeding. That is an act of bait application though - you’re not trying to get them on the munch as you believe, at that moment in time, they don't want a big feed - just an inquisitive taste. Any sort of big baiting approach in this situation would probably hinder your chances? It still wouldn't make much difference if that single bait was presented on a 'standard' pop up rig, a chod or a hinged stiff rig for instance. It’s the baiting strategy that is getting you the pickup. I've been saying that for years the baiting situation and whether the carp will feed on the bait will determine if you get a take or not. If the fish won't pick up the hookbait because they aren't comfortable with what is down there, then you simply won't get a run or any chance. It may be that they avoid massive beds of bait, or it may be that they simply won't pick up a single hookbait fished on its own with nothing around it. I don't think that it is the lead that hooks the fish either, but the speed at which it hits the lead or rod tip (running leads as the line tightens), or the strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanhuynh Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 H i All, I am experiencing difficulties with hook holds on bottom baits my situation is I have a chod rig on one rod for pop ups etc which hooks fine everytime however my bottom bait presentation is not good lost two runs friday through poor hook hold. The lake bed I am fishing is a small syndicate lake weed and bit of silt on the bottom, I presented a bottom bait in one area and a pop up in the other two runs on bottom bait lost both one run on pop up banked a 13lb mirror I really need help with a proven reliable and simple bottom bait rig what do you recommend? I would advise you use a suppler hooklink, over weed a good braided hooklink with some shrink tube to turn the hook in the fish' mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoogi Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Christ on a bike. I'd forgot what an arrogant, flippant, know it all he was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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