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Bitter sweet day ... Spot of brain picking please guys


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Morning all,

 

I had a very wet session on Monday, was an odd an ultimately successful day when I caught my new PB of 16lb 10 ( mirror ) on a chod rig.

 

However, prior to this I had been " done " no less than 6 times during the course of the day on my more normal setup.

 

I have been fishing my lake for a couple of years now and have found what seems to be the most effective rig ( for me at least ). However on Monday it let me down badly and ad a result I chucked the chod out, although this worked I am interested in fine tuning my more normal rig which usually works well.

 

On each occasion my bait was picked up and I got a short run, I lifted into a fish briefly however it fell off after 1-4 seconds, it seems reasonable to assume that my hook hold could do with some improvement and I was hoping that someone may be able to give some pointers at what may help.

 

My "normal" rig comprises :-

 

Coated hook link approx 3-4 inches ( has shrunk over the last year as shorter seems to work better for me ). Last inch before hook striped away.

Size 8 hook arma point barbless ( rule ) with a slightly beaked point tied normal knotless knot style with a short shrink tube over the eye to pull the hook round as an aligned ( about 5 mm in length ).

My hair leaves about 5mm between the bend of the hook and the bait, I tend to use home made boilies of around 14-16mm.

 

This then goes onto a running rig with a light inline pear lead.

 

I am reasonably confident that there wasn't a tangle as I cast it out witha small pva stick on the hook link with the hook pulled into the bottom to keep it as god intended ( as it were ) :wink:

 

I hope that's enough detail :wink:

 

The lake is mostly clay bottomed wih a silty section, I was fishing on a raised section about 3 ft down a meter or so off an island.....

 

 

Ideas on a post card and any help appreciated ...

 

Ta for your attention...

 

 

EDIT : PS before anyone says sharp hooks , I should have clarified this was not on the same rig ( I went through 4 as during the day but all basically the above design, but with new hooks etc ). Sorry this essay has been compile on a series of trains during the course of the day so forgot that bit

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I would suggest that once the boilie is in the carp's mouth it has no longer any purpose. In fact from that point on it is a liability. It can be blown out, pushing the hook with it or, if a hook hold has started, it can suck/blow on the boilie to try and release it. This may be happening in your case.

 

My suggestion is The Breakaway Boilie.

 

Whatever your rig, replace the boilie stop with a sliding float stop (or even no stop at all). When any pressure is put on the boilie it slides off the hair and can do no further damage leaving the hook free to do its job.

 

This will only work, of course, if you cast out your hook bait inside a pva bag as I tend to do.

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Beanz : home made boilies of between 14-16mm I tend to catty a few others out and around after my first cast ( not fairbrass amounts :wink: usually 10-15 and then top up the area a couple of times during the session stick is mostly for smell ( powders and some very small pellets ).

 

The above is obviously subject to change but this is my normal tactic if I am confident I have fish in front of me, as a rule I won't setup until I see tells and know I have fish there.

 

Carpepecheur : that is a new one on me I have never heard of a breakaway boilie. It sounds very logical but wouldn't the removal of the weight of the bait make the hook easy to blow out ? Although I guess it wouldn't matter on a fixed lead as the lead would provide the weight ...... Or am I being daft ?

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You fish exactly how i fish, that rig is exactly like mine, same length, and it works very well, although i use an ESP curve shank hook. Maybe, (just maybe) the fish arnt feeding well enough on your spot because of not enough bait to get them feeding as much, and thereefore, taking their time feeding, and not geting the hook in their mouth.

 

I used to fish a lake with that rig (minus the shrink tubing then) and fish halibut pellets, fished with a little stick like you or a couple of pellets in a pva stick. And lost nearly every fish i hooked.

 

I then tried something a little different, i put the rig in a solid PVA bag, medium or large size to get more bait out on the right spot. Since then, never lost a fish that i hooked with pellet.

 

Not long after, i started getting pickups again and then lose a couple or get done. So then i added the shrink tube over the eye of the hook. Now i very rarely get short burst runs and get done, and havn't lost a fish since ive done it.

 

Basicaly, all im saying, put your rig in a solid PVA bag and see what happens?

 

Goodluck, Ross.

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Carpepecheur : that is a new one on me I have never heard of a breakaway boilie. It sounds very logical but wouldn't the removal of the weight of the bait make the hook easy to blow out ? Although I guess it wouldn't matter on a fixed lead as the lead would provide the weight ...... Or am I being daft ?

 

It is an idea I have just started working on (I just coined that phrase). I always put a BB shot on the bend of the hook to help and yes I do use it with a fixed lead or to be more precise a Hermit rig.

 

You are not being daft .... just thinking.

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It's an interesting idea although I am not sure personally I would be happy idea of putting shot on the hook itself, as I would be worried that the shot would come loose in the fight and sucked in by the fish.

 

I know that carp will eat also sorts of wierd and wonderful baits but I am not sure lumps of metal are the basis of a healthy diet :wink:

 

I may be completely off the mark in my concern as I don't profess to be any sort of expert but I think I might stick to playing with hair length and rig length for now :wink:

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Good thinking, that had not occurred to me. However I have been using a shot on the hook for a year now and have never lost one. I twist a short piece of electrical wire on the start of the bend (pointed end) and nip the shot on that. I believe it makes the hook drop better towards the carp's bottom lip and helps turn the hook point down. I believe the original idea is attributed to Frank Warwick.

 

I am not familiar with the mechanics of fish biology but would think it unlikely that a shot would be swallowed during a fight.

 

Regarding hooklength, could I suggest trying a very short link to a hermit rig. I have found this effective.

 

I definitely agree with your one change at a time idea.

 

Good luck

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Me personally would change a few things, but not all at the same time:

 

Firstly make the hooklink longer 8-10" to start with and see how you get on, because the lead may be getting plugged and the running part of the set up maybe not working as well as it should.

 

Secondly change from a Fox SSBP to a Fox SSC as the beak point may be glancing off the carps lip, as the lips may be soft due to the make up of the lake bottom.

 

Bait size is fine, and hair separation is fine, but you could play with this using extenda stops to make it just slightly longer.

 

If you still fail more than you achieve, then it may be worth using a piece of silicone on the hook to put the hair coming off the point bend instead of the shank bend, this makes the point heavy and when you try it in your hand the hook turns ready to catch the bottom lip, this can be further improved by adding a small blob of tungsten putty approx 2" from the hook..

 

Hope that helps, if not drop me a PM...

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If you still fail more than you achieve, then it may be worth using a piece of silicone on the hook to put the hair coming off the point bend instead of the shank bend, this makes the point heavy and when you try it in your hand the hook turns ready to catch the bottom lip, this can be further improved by adding a small blob of tungsten putty approx 2" from the hook..

 

 

Could I ask a question about the "hand test"? I have seen the videos where various rigs are dragged over the heel of the palm to demonstrate how the hook will behave.

 

It would seem to me that this only demonstrates what is happening when the line is being pulled i.e. when there is tension in the line. This will happen when the boilie is being sucked in or if the carp is backing away. If the carp is just mouthing the bait or is blowing it out, the feature demonstrated by the hand test is surely irrelevant?

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I had similar thing on the last water I fished I found the below nailed them

 

 

Rig length around 5"

Hair length around 1.5"

ESP big T size 6

Using 18 mm bait

 

Shrink tuning slid up the hook and slightly down the rig from the eye so once steamed you can put a kick in it.

 

I'm presently fishing a new water and have so far had 7 fish fall foul to that rig on the new water so will be keeping it like that until I have any problems.

 

Its also important you check your hook point before every cast to make sure its as it should be I always add a bit of rig foam over the hook point to protect it on the cast and when it pops up it gives you a good marker as where to scatter your freebies. I have always done better on a large scatter of bait opposed to tight baiting up also worth you mixing it up with 10mm , 15mm , 18 mm boilies then it leaves you a nice choice as to what size you want the hookbait and using different sizes and scattering them keeps them occupied looking around

 

Hope that helps Best of luck next session

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If you still fail more than you achieve, then it may be worth using a piece of silicone on the hook to put the hair coming off the point bend instead of the shank bend, this makes the point heavy and when you try it in your hand the hook turns ready to catch the bottom lip, this can be further improved by adding a small blob of tungsten putty approx 2" from the hook..

 

 

Could I ask a question about the "hand test"? I have seen the videos where various rigs are dragged over the heel of the palm to demonstrate how the hook will behave.

 

It would seem to me that this only demonstrates what is happening when the line is being pulled i.e. when there is tension in the line. This will happen when the boilie is being sucked in or if the carp is backing away. If the carp is just mouthing the bait or is blowing it out, the feature demonstrated by the hand test is surely irrelevant?

 

Ideally you want the point to turn over and prick the bottom lip of the fish, whether that is done using a taut hooklink or the carp blowing the bait out. So draging it across your palm and getting the hook towards the edge just before you pull it off the edge the hook cocks and pricks the palm on the edge... I very rarely loose any carp, cant remember the last, if i get a run its on, and well nailed in the centre of the bottom lip.. Results speak..

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Morning all,

 

I had a very wet session on Monday, was an odd an ultimately successful day when I caught my new PB of 16lb 10 ( mirror ) on a chod rig.

 

However, prior to this I had been " done " no less than 6 times during the course of the day on my more normal setup.

 

I have been fishing my lake for a couple of years now and have found what seems to be the most effective rig ( for me at least ). However on Monday it let me down badly and ad a result I chucked the chod out, although this worked I am interested in fine tuning my more normal rig which usually works well.

 

On each occasion my bait was picked up and I got a short run, I lifted into a fish briefly however it fell off after 1-4 seconds, it seems reasonable to assume that my hook hold could do with some improvement and I was hoping that someone may be able to give some pointers at what may help.

 

My "normal" rig comprises :-

 

Coated hook link approx 3-4 inches ( has shrunk over the last year as shorter seems to work better for me ). Last inch before hook striped away.

Size 8 hook arma point barbless ( rule ) with a slightly beaked point tied normal knotless knot style with a short shrink tube over the eye to pull the hook round as an aligned ( about 5 mm in length ).

My hair leaves about 5mm between the bend of the hook and the bait, I tend to use home made boilies of around 14-16mm.

 

This then goes onto a running rig with a light inline pear lead.

 

I am reasonably confident that there wasn't a tangle as I cast it out witha small pva stick on the hook link with the hook pulled into the bottom to keep it as god intended ( as it were ) :wink:

 

I hope that's enough detail :wink:

 

The lake is mostly clay bottomed wih a silty section, I was fishing on a raised section about 3 ft down a meter or so off an island.....

 

 

Ideas on a post card and any help appreciated ...

 

Ta for your attention...

 

 

EDIT : PS before anyone says sharp hooks , I should have clarified this was not on the same rig ( I went through 4 as during the day but all basically the above design, but with new hooks etc ). Sorry this essay has been compile on a series of trains during the course of the day so forgot that bit

 

If you are losing fish to hookpulls, then the first thing I would change is the rig and hair length, they probably aren't long enough.

 

Also an Inline lead fishing running, may well not be running at all. The nose of the lead may have pushed the hooklink swivel into the lakebed, or even the lead had dug in far enough so that it couldn't run on a take.

 

 

edited for typo

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Morning all,

 

I had a very wet session on Monday, was an odd an ultimately successful day when I caught my new PB of 16lb 10 ( mirror ) on a chod rig.

 

However, prior to this I had been " done " no less than 6 times during the course of the day on my more normal setup.

 

I have been fishing my lake for a couple of years now and have found what seems to be the most effective rig ( for me at least ). However on Monday it let me down badly and ad a result I chucked the chod out, although this worked I am interested in fine tuning my more normal rig which usually works well.

 

On each occasion my bait was picked up and I got a short run, I lifted into a fish briefly however it fell off after 1-4 seconds, it seems reasonable to assume that my hook hold could do with some improvement and I was hoping that someone may be able to give some pointers at what may help.

 

My "normal" rig comprises :-

 

Coated hook link approx 3-4 inches ( has shrunk over the last year as shorter seems to work better for me ). Last inch before hook striped away.

Size 8 hook arma point barbless ( rule ) with a slightly beaked point tied normal knotless knot style with a short shrink tube over the eye to pull the hook round as an aligned ( about 5 mm in length ).

My hair leaves about 5mm between the bend of the hook and the bait, I tend to use home made boilies of around 14-16mm.

 

This then goes onto a running rig with a light inline pear lead.

 

I am reasonably confident that there wasn't a tangle as I cast it out witha small pva stick on the hook link with the hook pulled into the bottom to keep it as god intended ( as it were ) :wink:

 

I hope that's enough detail :wink:

 

The lake is mostly clay bottomed wih a silty section, I was fishing on a raised section about 3 ft down a meter or so off an island.....

 

 

Ideas on a post card and any help appreciated ...

 

Ta for your attention...

 

 

EDIT : PS before anyone says sharp hooks , I should have clarified this was not on the same rig ( I went through 4 as during the day but all basically the above design, but with new hooks etc ). Sorry this essay has been compile on a series of trains during the course of the day so forgot that bit

 

If you are losing fish to hookpulls, then the first thing I would change is the rig and hair length, they probably aren't long enough.

 

Also an Inline lead fishing running, may well not be running at all. The nose of the lead may have pushed the hooklink swivel into the lakebed, or even the lead had dug in far enough so that it couldn't run on a take.

 

 

 

edited for typo

 

I try to avoid that happening by putting little beads inbetween the lead and the swivel.

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This is quite common on a lake I fish regularly - Bream will pick up the bolie in their mouths and run with it, because their mouths are quite small in comparison to a carp, it's not actually big enough to fit the boilie AND the hook as well. Usually they fall off when you pick the rod up, but they've been known to come all the way into the net just holding (or getting their greedy faces stuck) round the boilie.

 

So instead of the hook pulling, could it just be our snotty friends?

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Lessthanphil :

 

In fairness there are many bream in my water ( as I have moaned abut in the past a bit ) however as I tend to land most of them in the lake I am fairly confident that they can grab my hook as they do with frustrating regularity.

 

Also the runs were full ones rather than the go stop go stop ones I tend to get with the bream

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If you still fail more than you achieve, then it may be worth using a piece of silicone on the hook to put the hair coming off the point bend instead of the shank bend, this makes the point heavy and when you try it in your hand the hook turns ready to catch the bottom lip, this can be further improved by adding a small blob of tungsten putty approx 2" from the hook..

 

 

Could I ask a question about the "hand test"? I have seen the videos where various rigs are dragged over the heel of the palm to demonstrate how the hook will behave.

 

It would seem to me that this only demonstrates what is happening when

 

 

 

 

the line is being pulled i.e. when there is tension in the line. This will happen

 

when the boilie is being sucked in or if the carp is backing away. If the carp

is just mouthing the bait or is blowing it out, the feature demonstrated by

the hand test is surely irrelevant?

 

 

 

Ah yes!! The hand test!! Since when has running a rig in my living room across my warty old hand while watching matt Hayes total fishing been anything like a carp feeding nose deep in silt!!!!!!

 

Ideally you want the point to turn over and prick the bottom lip of the fish, whether that is done using a taut hooklink or the carp blowing the bait out. So draging it across your palm and getting the hook towards the edge just before you pull it off the edge the hook cocks and pricks the palm on the edge... I very rarely loose any carp, cant remember the last, if i get a run its on, and well nailed in the centre of the bottom lip.. Results speak..

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If you still fail more than you achieve, then it may be worth using a piece of silicone on the hook to put the hair coming off the point bend instead of the shank bend, this makes the point heavy and when you try it in your hand the hook turns ready to catch the bottom lip, this can be further improved by adding a small blob of tungsten putty approx 2" from the hook..

 

 

Could I ask a question about the "hand test"? I have seen the videos where various rigs are dragged over the heel of the palm to demonstrate how the hook will behave.

 

It would seem to me that this only demonstrates what is happening when the line is being pulled i.e. when there is tension in the line. This will happen when the boilie is being sucked in or if the carp is backing away. If the carp is just mouthing the bait or is blowing it out, the feature demonstrated by the hand test is surely irrelevant?

 

Ideally you want the point to turn over and prick the bottom lip of the fish, whether that is done using a taut hooklink or the carp blowing the bait out. So draging it across your palm and getting the hook towards the edge just before you pull it off the edge the hook cocks and pricks the palm on the edge... I very rarely loose any carp, cant remember the last, if i get a run its on, and well nailed in the centre of the bottom lip.. Results speak..

 

I must admit I find the Hand test as described, and even the "over the thumb" test misleading as I can think of a number of rigs which will fail both of them are actually very efficient fish hooking rigs. A carp can only suck and blow the bait (and hook) in and out in its "natural" feeding, so almost every rig is failing at some point and not hooking every time. The most important thing is getting the feeding situation right, so that if a rig does fail first time, it is continually picked up as the carp is feeding naturally or comfortably. The more times or the longer the hook is in the mouth, the more chance it has of hooking the fish.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks everyone for your ideas.... Sorry got a but distracted by the Missus giving birth, I am being sent ou of the house twice next week and instructed to go to the lake and get out from under her feet so I will see if we have any more joy although I suspect I will be playing with a zig on at least one rod.

 

 

 

Oh and the baby's fine :wink:

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the rig length may be to short??? what bait you using and how are you baiting??

 

a longer rig should let the hook go further in,hopefully meaning a better hook hold.

 

Yeah seconed that, If i get done and i put it down to a pic up 100% somethink needs to change straight away :wink:

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