salokcinnodrog

Sliding helicopter set-ups (Chod) in weed although publicised as the "be all and end all" are not necessarily the best option either A normal pop-up rig can be fished on any type of presentation, be it helicopter, (fixed or sliding), pendant, (running or semi-fixed) or inline, whereas a chod rig is usually a sliding presentation to present a bait above (its original purpose) the silt. A paternostered set-up can be better, more indication at the rod end, less risk of snapping up (on a fish or otherwise), and less chance of leaving a tethered fish

Don't forget that you can counterbalance a pop-up so that it becomes critically balanced Or even overweight it. A pop-up is usually a bait presented above the lakebed, but a pop-up bait can be used on a rig on the lakebed or even in the silt. Even a zig rig is a pop-up or buoyant bait of some sort presented well above the lakebed. Bet that makes it as clear as mud

An honest answer here, and one that people overlook is Emmcee's point about the "thumb" and "palm" tests. There are many hookrigs that would fail both tests, yet work effectively and catch plenty of fish, and nicely hooked in the bottom lip. Years ago I first started using the D-rig for bottom and pop-up baits, it is effective with both. The hooks I have been using for a while have been curved shank hooks, in the picture on this thread http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185 I think from memory was a Carp-r-Us Nailer or Centurion hook. That is not the only brand that will work, as the Gamakatsu GP204, the Gardner Muggas are similar patterns, and there are others. You've found a preference for you with an out turned eye hook, that does not make it less effective, just bear in mind that what works for you is not the same preference that everyone else has.

Don't make me think, thats not fair You're picking up on something that is true, although there is the miniscule possibility that a carp may just happen across the hooklink from the lead side, and "picks it up" with its mouth clamped over the lakebed as well, in that case even a running lead rig is at full extension with no hope of movement, yet with a non extended rig there is still the possibility of movement away.

I've used Kryston hooklink materials for years, starting with Silkworm, but after playing around found that I was more comfortable with Merlin, as I felt it to be less buoyant. Since then I've used Merlin, SuperNova, and Silkworm, and have found no need to change as they work for me, and I have faith in what works without changing. Do you currently have more than one then, ready to go?? If so, why is this? Oh and not forgetting I like SuperSilk as well which although white when brand new takes on the colour of the lakebed. Current Kryston hooklinks in the tackle box are the SuperNova and the Merlin. Simply a case of using what I think is required at the time, maybe for matching to the colour of the lakebed, or maybe because I feel like trying something different if I haven't been catching. There is that little bit of room for experimentation in my fishing, and if a rig is sat there for 24hours or so and I haven't caught I will check and/or change it. http://www.kryston.com/index.php Although Cobleyn says that the braids will float and loop up, to be honest that is actually a feature of many other hooklinks, (even monos) as they often sit in a loop from lead to hook unless weighted down, so the rubbing putty or even dirt or mud from the bankside is worthwhile if you are worried about it. A big advantage with braids is that they are supple, allowing plenty of movement both laterally and longitudinally. To make it simple, they can move from side to side as well as extend out, which to me is something I want. If you use a hooklink of any material that is fully extended then the hook can't move away from the lead if a fish sucks or picks up in its lips. Some fish may suck a bait, but if it doesn't move towards it, then becomes what may be termed a source of danger and the hookbait is left. If a fish attempts to pick up the bait, and it is fully extended, then it may simply pull the hookbait out of the mouth without any proper take. The other feature to stop tangling is another Kryston product called Superstiff, a pva style gel that you coat your hooklink with which under water dissolves and allows it to return to its supple state.

I've used Kryston hooklink materials for years, starting with Silkworm, but after playing around found that I was more comfortable with Merlin, as I felt it to be less buoyant. Since then I've used Merlin, SuperNova, and Silkworm, and have found no need to change as they work for me, and I have faith in what works without changing.

Is there anything on this that is of use? A Leader free Silt/Helicopter set-up that I designed years ago http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37603

To an extent yes, but the diameter of some braids in a lower strain could well cut the fishes mouth to ribbons. Most of the time if you get a break off, then as long as the lead or rig can release (and not all lead clips will do that) the fish is just trailing a short length of line and/or a hooklink. If you get a knot give way, it is usually the first knot that gives, that being the mainline to quicklink or swivel knot, result the fish just trailing a short hooklink. When there is NO WEIGHT on the line a fish can usually eject even a barbed hook with few problems

A fair few people use the same line for their hooklink as their mainline, with the standard mainline to hooklink swivel as the join. A Mono hooklink doesn't tangle as easily as a braided one. For the hair I use either hair braid from ESP being as I bought some years ago and still have some left, or 4lb mono. Unlike HNV I tie a blood or uni knot with it through the eye of the hook, and then silicon or shrink tubing over the eye/shank to hold it in place, and a Uni knot to attach the hook to the hooklink.

Dave Lane at Suffolk Water Park caught a number of fish by feeding floaters and fishing a zig underneath them when they came to their "dead zone" against the rushes. Fox produce an adjustable Zig rig kit, although I haven't used one, I prefer a submerged float and a 30-60cm hooklink and then work it up the water rather than top down. If you prefer though with the adjustable zig you can go top down just by reeling in the line slightly. Is there anything in this of any use? http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=34983

Not new, but try Beekay Guide to Carp Rigs (may be worth Googling Beekay), Korda also did a Guide to Rigs, and Gardner do a small guide Also chapters in Tim Paisleys Big Carp, To Catch a Carp, and Hutchy The Carp Strikes Back amongst others. You also have some of the free DVD's from Nash, Korda and the like, which probably have a bit in them, just remember that they are an advert as well. However in most cases, keep it simple, a standard Knotless knotted rig will work although occasionally a Line aligner may make for better hooking and possibly anti ejection. The most important thing is putting the rig in the right place and getting the feeding situation right You also have: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185

Chris, I used to fish bent hooks, didn't see much damage, but long before they were banned, stopped using them, because of the fact that on some fish they had definitely caused major mouth damage, and anglers had expressed concerns in the magazines (no forums around all those years ago). I DIDN'T cause harm to the fish I was fishing for (large carp over 20lb+), but the pattern or use did cause mouth damage to plenty of smaller carp with smaller mouths. Sorry, leadcore CAN cause damage to carp, some not immediately apparent, as well as the obvious tethering. Leadcore is abrasive, and can rub a "blister" or burn type scar on the fish. I have caught fish, when I was using leadcore that hadn't been caught for years, yet when I landed them there were fresh red marks on the flank where the leader would rub, and NO fresh hookholds in the mouth, or on another fish , what looked like black lines across the flanks. Levigsp, who is also a very good angler and has landed some big (no publicity style) fish has also done experiments and seen the same sort of damage that I mention. Moorsey has also had to kill a fish that had picked up a rig attached to leadcore (helicopter style as well) and the fish could not eject the rig. It had passed through a number of weedbeds, and what started off as a small twig was totally engulfed in weed, and the fish had a broken jaw preventing it from ever feeding again. For the rest of the argument on Leadcore I will pass onto this thread: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598, and also do a copy and paste, cos this thread will go nowhere further if we are just making the same arguments again.

Good replie mate but i started chod fishing coping Jim's style years ago fishing light leads 1-1.5oz and lengths of leadcore upto 10ft long (yes you've read it right lads) i fished the same setup as jim exsplained to me and found it had advantages and disadvantages, the reason behind using such a long length of leadcore is its the lenght and weight of the leadcore that hooks the fish not the lead as it the last thing to come into play. I don't and never will use such a long lenght of leadcore again for certain reasons as it very difficult to cast it out and be target with such a long length and i think its unsafe and careless to do so. However like you i will contiune to use leadcore upto 4-6ft depending on the situation or flourocarbon straight through again depending on the situation im faced with.. It seems to me nearly everyone on this forum is againest the use of leadcore for 1 reason or another. I think to many people are to quick to jump on the band wagon without having any knowledge of the product. So i put this to you all .... If its that bad Magazines would'nt feature it. Every Top well known angler thats in the public eye would be againest it. And tackle companies would'nt produce it.... Tell me why?????? I don't mean to get peoples backs ups and i dont mean to be a bore.. Chris, I took the trouble to do a load of experiments with leadcore, in and out of the water, and sorry to say it, I even troubled to e-mail one of the magazines who featured leadcore rigs, and to be honest the reply I got was less than explanatory. The magazines have been promoting unsafe leadcore set-ups, so YES the magazines do make light or ignore the potential risks of its use. Not only do they ignore the risks they don't explain the safety aspects of WHERE and how to use it properly. Many items of tackle are sold simply because of the money that they make. You don't need a fluorcarbon leader in most fishing, it doesn't always disappear and can be visible underwater. At much above 40metres I reckon the line is running down in an arc and along the lakebed anyway, a clear or camouflaged line is less visible against the lakebed. Leadcore stands out against the lakebed, a 1mm visible line or a 0.35mm line that is hard to distinguish. Lead clips, you don't necessarily need them, they don't always do the job said on the tin, yet are seen as the way to attach lead to the line for all purposes. In fact the simplest way to catch carp is often to forget what is published and go back to basics, mainline straight through, with a simple running link lead to a basic rig, be it on mono or whatever. This is the thread where I queried the use and article: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38886&highlight=advanced+carp+fishing As for the curved section, when I have to resort to using "The short rig" (as Frank Warwick christened it I think), I still use 15lb clear Amnesia for the hooklink, a loop knot to the swivel and it will curve nicely; A) by the natural curve from coming off the spool, and B) by body heat and being rubbed over my thumb. A fish is likely to approach the hookbait from an above angle, so the hooklink is not visible anyway. I can also use that short rig on my preferred running lead set-up, and do so with no problems on harder lakebeds; although the reason for using a helicopter set-up is usually because of one of 2 reasons: a) silty lakebed where I feel the lead will sink in and may pull the hooklink down into it below feeding level b) I am aiming for maximum distance casting, where I need the lead to pull the rig along in flight tangle free.

The one thing I will say, and sorry Emmcee, personal experience has taught me NEVER to use Leadcore again. Andy, there are plenty of leadcore threads round at the moment, with other links available that I recommend you look at. The general advice is to avoid leadcore, and more and more anglers are hopefully getting the message that it is risky stuff and should not be used in fishing.

Also the Chod thread: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?p=524723#524723 and Lead Set-ups: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37603

Chris, I don't care how upset a subject makes you, but if you ever use language like that again it will be your last post. Because of that I have locked this thread and deleted the post. Gaz took the effort to put a lot of links to other leadcore threads on this thread (just down the page), can I suggest that views go on one of them please: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=49805, but this link is probably one of the best anbd comes complete with some pics of how dangerous leadcore can be: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=40711&highlight=leadcore

Is this (and the other link on that thread) any use? http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=42729

A whole thread devoted to "Chod" rigs, and boy do I hate that name still: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=36456 When there is an existing thread it is easy enough to post on it to get up to date information Even more so when it is in the Carp Fishing Stickies section for regularly asked or repeated questions I've done a copy and paste

Honest it is dead easy As simple and as basic as tying a knotless knot to a length of hooklink material and then putting a pop-up on the hair. You can use a stop knot or shot (personally rather not use shot though), and mould putty around it to get the pop-up balanced. The link referred to: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185

Best advice, DON'T buy any at all. There are loads of leadcore threads with the fors and against, but why use a product that adds extra risks into your fishing? In fact a product which lets you down every time you hook a fish

Test as in how they look and behave underwater? Or test as in how much strain they will take? Whatever you learn from a tank/bucket may well be different out in the depths of the pond, there are too many variables. The weed may affect the behaviour of the hookbait, the depth may affect the buoyancy of a pop-up or the lakebed may "clog up" how a hook is taken in in relation to the bait. In most cases the best rig is the most simple knotless knotted hook with a hair; usually a continuation of the hooklink material The Palm or Over the Thumb Tests will only teach you what you think you want to know ; That the hook goes in and will flip over or will drag into the fishes mouth. The real test is whether it produces fish on the bank. From that look at each hookhold and see if anything needs changing. If the hook is at the extreme edge of the lips or you are getting hookpulls then lengthen the hair and/or rig length. If at the back of the mouth then shorten either or both. If the hook is dead centre of the bottom lip then you have it pretty much spot on. If you are testing for breaking strain, then simply tie your knots and put as much strain as you can on the knots, being careful NOT to hook yourself in the process. I tie a knot in my hooklink be it at hook end or swivel/quick link and put the hook in the eye of a pair of forceps and pull as hard as I can. The swivel is then tied to the mainline and I do the same to that to check it.

Cross purposes maybe, but think about the Spinlink or other clip lead attachment at the end of the leadcore or leader splice. Spliced loop into leadlink of whatever sort, now go up a little bit. Remove Lead attachment, and bottom bead/rubber will now slide down over the self spliced loop, and above that you have your rig, which will now also slide down over the loop. Slide on fresh rig, bead/rubber, attach lead link of whatever type back into the splice via loop to loop method and there you have a fairly quick change rig set up. Does that now make sense? A good splice will never give way (I can in fact make spliced hooklinks in some braided hooklinks with no knots )

I'm not advocating leadcore, but think about a large spliced loop at the lead end of a braided leader Works with heli set-ups to hold a lead, through a (sea fishing) spinlink clip and lead onto that, or with the braided leader to hold a rig swivel If you make up your PVA mesh/stick with rig attached then hook in at the base next to the knot, push swivel through the top end of the mesh as you knot it, although you may end up with glob of dissolved PVA on hooklink Or have a rig longer than your tube, hook in first (bait can be attached before or after if you pull the hair outside the mesh with a (Gardner) baiting needle) and the swivel outside the top end, but push the PVA filling down alongside the rig and you would knot the top end anyway. Does that help any?

Peperami, basically a trade name of a processed meaty sausage Chorizo, salami pretty much all the same thing. I've used peperami, but don't catch many on it, since I seem to end up eating the stuff

I simply can't get an overhand knot down tight to the end of (pva) mesh, down to badly mishaped past broken fingers. So instead of pulling it down tight, I cut a notch from the top of the filling to the end of the mesh outwards (if that makes sense), and then double overhand knot the mesh. The 1st knot pulls into the top of the filling and then the second knot secures it.