salokcinnodrog

If you are losing fish to hookpulls, then the first thing I would change is the rig and hair length, they probably aren't long enough. Also an Inline lead fishing running, may well not be running at all. The nose of the lead may have pushed the hooklink swivel into the lakebed, or even the lead had dug in far enough so that it couldn't run on a take. edited for typo

It was "inner free", there was nothing inside it, but it was a heavy sinking braid. Can't remember what I did with it, although being as it is not in my house, and definitely not in my fishing tackle, it looks like it went into the bin, or got used to hold up beans on sticks.

Yes it is from the original Korda Rig Guide, from the days when DF was actually getting into the tackle shops and I had respect for them. I hate the article plugging by Korda that is now commonplace by the employees and sponsored/subsidised anglers in magazines. I have also found since the publication of that book that some of the stuff they now produce is NOT suitable for my fishing. Problem is that one of our best known anglers has said publicly that he uses Leadcore in lengths as long as 10feet long, although I believe since he has been forced to shorten it for another article Some anglers will catch fish with LC, and they will fish it no matter what, some may not accept the risks. I'm sorry, it doesn't take a "wrongly" set-up leadcore leader to kill a fish, all it takes is 10cm of leadcore and a fish can be tethered. A few years ago, I got into the water between New Year and Christmas, proper fishing as well and did a fair few experiments to prove or disprove some of the theories regarding Leadcore, and in doing so, managed to upset a certain Magazine editor when I e-mailed him my findings, and I got accused of being an armchair keyboard warrior in print in the magazine. The threads on here that gave the facts were all locked when people didn't or wouldn't accept them and the insults flew, all aimed at Keith and myself or those who were showing and telling the risks of Leadcore That 10cms of Leadcore can kink and trap beads so that rigs can't pass over the knot join, even if they do go through the proper central hole. Leadcore can shoot past the lead on contact with water on a cast, even when feathered, that shooting past is able to create a kink in the LC. Pulling it back does not necessarily remove the kink or pull it totally straight. In leadcore, no matter who's it is, there is the possibility of the lead inner breaking and poking through the outer sheath, which can also trap beads in position. If leadcore is able to wrap around any twig, it will prevent the beads (and rig) coming free. That twig can then be pulled and towed around, picking up more weed and other twigs and detritus creating a big bundle of rubbish that a fish is now pulling complete. I know that we want to keep our fish fit, but I'm sure they don't like doing "Wind Sprints" , and that in turn can break the fishes jaw (ask Keith), or eventually snag up totally, tethering the fish. I can give you pictures of bundles of rubbish pulled out of a lake, and in them, for some reason, there always seems to be a length of leadcore, even if it has managed to pick up other snap-offs, or lengths of line. Leadcore does NOT lay so flat along the lakebed, it is not supple enough to go into every nook and cranny, although mono is probably the same, it is not as highly visible as a length of LC laying along the lakebed. The abrasion resistance, I will agree, it is very high, only it is so high that the outer core (which may well be Kevlar or Dyneema based) is able to saw through wood, and is MORE likely to mark and cut the fish than mono, which usually slides over the fish. In fact last week I had a small common which I caught on Fluoro coated mono, and at one point in I saw the line go around the pectoral fin as it turned away under pressure and then came free as the fight progressed, I netted the fish, and there was no marks or damage. I have also got pictures of fish, which I have put on here before during the days when I did use leadcore, and there are marks which I believe may have been caused by leadcore rubbing along the flanks. Regarding the pictures I put up ages ago of fish with marks on their flanks, that I consider may well have been damaged by leadcore, there is no chance that that is spawning damage, not unless it takes roughly 2 months for (fresh) red marks to heal on rarely caught fish (the big fully scaled caught on 7/7 if anyone knows why the date is relevant) and straight line marks on another mirror and even a pinged scale on the first fish I caught from there which I caught earlier in the year on my second fishing trip to the water, which could not have been caused by spawning as of the time of the first 2 captures they hadn't been there to do it. In fact the first 2 captures came on my second fishing trip on the water in April, and the water was still cold and clear. They didn't spawn that year until May, I know I watched them when they did it.160acres of water to hide in, fish may not get caught for years between captures and some had never been caught before. It was during a time when I did use leadcore in my fishing. At the same time I was also fishing Suffolk Water Park a bit, which is very weedy, and lost a fish, that was guaranteed to be trailing a leadcore leader, fished Pendant lead style, as the line went above the leader knot when the fish cut along a gravel bar on the take. Another incident on that lake made me realise how risky any leaders can be; I cast my marker rod out one evening to have a dig around at what was in front of me, and got snagged up by something. Eventually I retrieved a leader fished helicopter style, complete with (plastic) bait, where the lead could not be ejected and 10's of metres of line caught up in weed a big bundle. The beads would not come free from the leader no matter how much hand pressure myself and the bailiff put on it. We had to use pliers to free the beads and the rig, which I'm sure the carp or other fish are not in possession of. I'm sure that Keith will always use his actual memories of having to kill a fish, it is a first hand incident, one that because he saw and dealt with himself is going to use as a reference. Now he has a water where leaders are banned, and since then has not had another incident, and I believe in his water he also drains down at times to remove any snags and branches that are a risk to fishing. The fish seem to have come on in big weights. Leadcore and leaders are things in fishing where if you use them correctly, as per instructions, will cause the potential for fish to be tethered, but add to that, there is so much additional potential for fish to be snagged/harmed if things are done incorrectly, like putting beads side on, or fishing too close to snags. As I said, it only takes 10cms of leadcore for a fish to be snagged up, and a small twig. If anyone has ever lost a fish, and watched it with a hook in the mouth, they can sometimes use a branch or twig and rub against it, swimming round in tight circles. That 10cms of leadcore may then snag up. Result, a snagged, tethered fish. I really didn't want to get dragged back into another leadcore debate, they do get nasty, and apart from smart alec remarks I'm not that way inclined. I prefer live and let live, but sometimes you have to try to point out dangers to whoever I'm sorry, I have copied and pasted some of my replies on another forum into the quotes, so some of it is repeated (as it has been done many times before albeit in different words), and I have also C&P'd some of this thread onto that "Leaders or Not" Thread

A couple of threads about Leadcore and Leaders: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598 That goes back to 2008, when I started experimenting to prove or disprove the safety aspect; Result for me was that Leadcore does NOT do what it says on the tin. http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=39794 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=40970 And ask Moorsey what has happened on the fishery he owns and runs in France from purchase to modern day

Answered

If I give a full explanation then it seems patronising, yet what you forget is that other people NOT just yourself read threads and opinions, and may need a full answer or explanation. If I had just given a 3 word answer of "Use the Chod" you would have been happy, but it didn't agree with what you wanted to hear. In fact you trying to tell me about how Silt rigs and Chod rig got their name put my back up as I am pretty sure that I probably have a very long memory regarding a vast number of rigs, baits and tackle, in many cases long before some of todays anglers were born. Frank Warwick christened the Chod rig "the Short rig" Just put it this way, I've fished in the 70's, 80's, 90, 00's and now the 10's. Work out how many decades that is! You asked for advice, and I gave you advice and my opinion and some of it from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE! I would totally avoid Helicopter set-ups unless I absolutely have to, and the clue in that personal experience is in this line: 20years ago I was playing around with bomb on the end of the line set-ups and found that that was a fault that they had going against them. It meant that even with 20lb leaders I was losing fish, where even the shockleader was giving way. Then we switched over to that horrible poxy stuff called leadcore, which is something I dislike with a passion after finding out for myself how much of a risk it is in fishing. As for Jim Shelley, then I still honestly don't care, I have had personal contact with him, and sometimes what the great and famous do, is not always the best in terms of fish safety There are other rigs that are effective with a great hooking potential, and many a whole lot easier to set up on a standard lead set-up. Now I fish a water that is very silty; no matter how hard I search I still can't find a hard bit of bottom in the lake, it is very thick (smelly) silt, yet I haven't had to resort to Silt set-ups with the bomb on the end of the line yet, and I have had a fair number of fish out on limited number of sessions.

It wasn't Frank Warwick who christened the short rigs on a helicopter the Silt rig, it was Tim Paisley, shortened from the terminology from "bomb-on-the-end-of-the-line" as he put it "for brevity's sake" The Chod rig terminology came from a conversation between Terry Hearn and Jim Maylin when one asked the other "What's the bottom like out there?" The reply was "its a bit choddy". And Jim Shelley also had to change away from the Silt rig on a number of waters, because it didn't sit right, and wasn't hooking fish Just because someone "famous" does something, it DOES NOT mean that other methods won't work. I use Combi rigs, so I do know how stiffer hooklinks come off the swivel, being as Amnesia is a VERY stiff hooklink material Which is WHY I gave you the picture, so you could see a lead link.

The SILT rig set up (its proper name, NOT Chod, which stands for Claggy Horrible Old Detritus, or something similar), is designed for Silt fishing, NOT in weed, but has been (badly) adapted for any situation (by those who are too lazy to do anything else Actually the hooking ability of a Helicopter set-up is not great, and can be responsible for more lost fish than standard set-ups, some of which since you didn't get any indication you won't even know about. The angle of pull is across the line, so a ring swivel on mainline can weaken the line by rubbing, and then under pressure it breaks, also that angler of pressure can also lead to high numbers of hookpulls. It is something that Tim Paisley wrote about years ago when he was fishing The Mangrove Swamp in Big Carp Summer in his book Big Carp. Just because a lake is silty, or gravel, sand or clay you DON'T have to use a Helicopter/Rotary set-up. You could fish a standard set-up incorporating a semi-fixed or running lead, effectively a paternoster That way using a weak link, you can be sure that the lead will break free if required. Or by using (the only good use for) a Leadcore link, it will pull the lead down into the silt. The lead pulls everything behind it, reducing tangles, and with a flat (pear/bottle) lead, is less likely to sink right into the lakebed. Pictured below in the quotes is the set-up that Derek Ritchie used to land a number of fish in a water he was fishing, and Danny Fairbrass liked it so much he published it in his book The Korda Guide to Rig Making, or something along those lines You can play around with the length of the lead link, and also the breaking strain so that you get it sorted for how you need to fish

Fine mono works just as well In fact I tie my snowman baits on with fine mono. Don't confuse yourself with rigs. In most cses a knotless knot rig will work, and is easy to adjust dependant on how the carp are taking. The first thing to look at is your hair length, simply by adjusting that you can get your hookholds in the right place. For my reference I look at where I hook (or lose) carp. If it is right back in the mouth the hair is too long, if I'm getting right at the front of the mouth or losing fish then the hair is too short, in the centre of the bottom lip, perfect. Also how you feed or quantity can change where you are hooking fish. These may offer some help: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37603 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185

I made that 34 at a quick count. You have OCD, need serious help and I reckon tablets are the only answer. I know I've got about 25 tied up, and as I use a rig and change it after each fish grab a new one out of the rig bin. When I get home or during my quiet times fishing I tie up a new rig to replace it. A few specific pop-up rigs, and the rest are mostly my "specialised" snowman sliding set-ups for my season ticket water.

It may be a total blanket ban as (mainline) braids are very thin and can cut fish if used straight through or as a hooklink, in fact a few hooklink braids fall into that category if they are so fine; Which is actually the reason why in many cases we fish with a higher breaking strain hooklink than the mainline I.E, 12lb Mainline and 25lb Hooklink If a water has a braided (mainline and hooklink) line ban I am quite happy using mono or fluoro. We all worry about how a hooklink behaves in water. Most rigs work anyway, whether they fall into thumb or palm test as failures. I know a number of big name anglers who use mainline and mono as their hooklinks, Paddy Webb and Lee Jackson fell into this category for a long time. Either use a finer mono for your hair, or continue the hooklink through with the knotless knot. You could simply tie your hook on as opposed to knotless knot, and then use silicon or shrink tubing over the knot. It worked before we had these finer braided hooklinks (Dacron being the first), and will still work today.

More than 2 types of tubing, as you have also forgotten the joys of plain ordinary silicon tubing that can be used on hooks, often faster and easier than using shrink tube, especially if you are tying up rigs on the bank I also use shrink and silicon tubing on the hooks to create line aligners, which I have confidence in, and although they may be easy, sometimes a standard knotless knotted hook does not catch hold, so the line aligner can be useful. If I can get away with it, I would be quite happy fishing without Anti-Tangle tubing on the mainline, although I'm confident in its use, as a bit of extra protection against snags and gravel rub. http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=35896

You're mixed up! A balanced bait rig can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it. A balanced (2) hookbait can be a snowman hookbait, or you can drill out a boilie and then fill it with foam core, and how much you use, you'll have to play with for each hookbait. You can use a standard knotless knot presentation or you can faff about trying different things, but why make life complicated? http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=50409&highlight=balanced+baits http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=47555&highlight=balanced+baits

I have not fished any lead set-up other than a running lead for over 5years Any use? http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=26640 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=27479

The snowman is a bit difficult to work out. Sometimes its success may be down to the baits being "lighter" and so possibly more easily sucked in, yet at times, the "wobble" of the bait may get the fish to not accept it. I very rarely fish (overflavoured high visibility) pop-ups at all, I much prefer bottom baits or snowman set-ups, and I may be missing out, but pop-ups can possibly blow and work against you. This thread may also offer some help: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32834

I know that if we look at rigs in the water, we are (usually) only looking from a margin point of view, and we have carefully laid the rig down. In my case my not switching from braid is because it works for me; I have great confidence in my hooklinks. I know that with the way I set them up they are pretty tangle free, and I want to allow the movement that I feel braid offers over the stiffness of fluorocarbon. You're catching, so what you are currently doing works If you are catching there may well be no reason to change, however, if you are using 2 rods, then try a braided hooklink on one and fluoro on the other, and see which produces most fish. That may mean swapping rods over at times, putting your fluorocarbon hooklink where you have had your braid and vice versa. Compare the results, and get your confidence in what you are doing, preferably with both There probably are times when one material will outfish the other, don't know why, it happens, then all of a sudden it can switch back.

The majority of my braided hooklinks are closer to 30cms long, that is for coated and uncoated braids, come to that for most of my hooklinks all together The rig pic I was thinking of is on this thread: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=42738&highlight=rig+camouflage The most important thing is that you put your rig where the food is, on the silt if the carp feed on, or in it of they dig to get their food, so for that you will have to play with the rig length.

Kryston Heavy Metal. Moulds around absolutely everything and sticks exactly where its put, mono, fluoro, braid coated and uncoated. As for Korda sinkers on pop-ups, I just use small olivettes for pole fishing if it is a very buoyant pop-up, or I want an overweighted bait

Not just Adrenaline, the majority of monos take a lot of time to rest on the lakebed, even if they are described as sinking. It is not until they have taken on water that they eventually settle; part of the reason that it can take so long to get a mono line to sink to the lakebed when fishing running leads and slack line. Sure we may want to have a looped up hooklink, weighted at the lead/mainline end and with the weight of the hook and bait at t'other, but I would much rather have a hooklink that was flat out laying on the lakebed, which even then will take some attention to achieve as most hooklinks do loop up to some extent

Rodney The lake I fish is sometimes very clear, but usually cloudy. When it is clear normally around February to March, the water is so clear you can see the bottom in 15feet of water (and all of the snags if people bothered to look). Even then I still use my coated and stripped braided or combi-rig hooklinks. I do have a picture somewhere of a clear winter margin with a braided rig in it. I know that in the middle of the lake is totally different in terms of what the fish can or can't see, but this margin picture convinced me that sometimes we may try too hard to camouflage everything when we have no need. I'd use fluorocarbon not for its invisible properties, but actually for its different behaviour regarding stiffness and how the fish were taking the bait. Is this any use? http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=33587

I don't like mono as a hooklink with pop-up rigs, I feel that they lack finesse, the curve of the mono is not allowing the hooklink to lay flat and then vertical if that makes sense. I much prefer the method I put in one of your other rig threads, to tie a Uni knot loop at the end of a coated (and partially stripped) or uncoated braid and then attach the hook with a KK. Also the pattern of the hook I prefer is a Kamasan B175, I don't feel a curve shank hook is right for pop-ups. No need for shrink tube For Gardner Muggas, I still prefer my braided (coated and a stripped section or uncoated hooklinks), but use them only for bottom or snowman set-ups, where the snowman is an 18mm bottom bait with a 15mm pop-up above it, or the winter alternative a 15mm bottom bait, with a trimmed down pop-up to only just sink the bait and hook. The hook is attached with a Uni knot and line aligner.

I'm lazy, my standard pop-up rig is braid or coated braid. I tie a uni knot loop in the end of the hooklink material (coated braid is stripped back approximately one third of its length), put a pop-up in the loop and pull tight. I then attach hook with a knotless knot, and make sure that the bait is very tight to the hookshank. The distance I want the pop-up above the bottom I put a piece of putty on the hooklink. With the coated braid, it is usually where the braid has been stripped to. Its simple, easy to tie, and it works for me and has done so for a lot of years, but I noticed Cobleyn has different thoughts, so you will have to get confident in an arangement for yourself to see what works best. I very rarely put a stringer or pva bag or even stick around a pop-up hookbait, the added accoutrements can drag the hook down into the bottom debris and mask the hookpoint. I may add a stringer to the hooklink swivel, but NEVER the hook itself

A snowman can be a critically balanced bait, the pop-up balancing the weight of the bottom bait, or it can be a pop-up, with both baits lifted off the bottom, or just using a pop-up to provide attraction to a heavy bottom bait. Don't confuse yourself with rigs In most cases a simple knotless knotted rig will work, for pop-ups or bottom baits. Simply tie a loop at the end of a length of hooklink material, and attach a hook with a knotless knot. If you prefer a "tied on" hook, then use a good knot, and attach a hair (fine breaking strain mono or hair braid/dental floss) by going through the hook eye and tie a bog standard blood knot, and to protect the lot I put a piece of shrink tube over the eye of the hook and down the shank to get the hair leaving the shank in the right place. That bog standard rig will work in most places This should keep you busy and hopefully some interesting reading http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=33587 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=35896 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37416

Braid all the time. I do not possess any fluorocarbon hooklink material of any kind. Last time it was used was with an adjustable zig rig, can't remember the last time I used a fluoro rig on the bottom

Nick- what've you done??? You know that's going to cost you a few hook pulls Didn't say that I had dropped a fish on one of my old patterns though due to me pulling too hard though did I And not forgetting a snapped combi- hooklink down to me being careless and lazy