Realisation!

[salokcinnodrog]

I was having the typical bivvy thoughts while fishing and made a major realisation.

In the days of a standard sleeping bag, it would fit onto a standard bedchair, from sunlounger to Lafuma, to original Fox bedchairs.

There were some decent cold weather sleeping bags, manufactured by cold weather sleeping bag specialists.

Tackle manufacturers got involved in the sleeping bag market, sleeping bags with pockets for the bedchair to hold the top and bottom on the chair, so it would not slide off.

Then came the gradual switch to 3 and 4 legged bedchairs and the now universal flat bed, and tackle manufacturers discovered a problem that they had created; with the position of the legs the pocket or flap holding the bedchair was now not suitable. Sleeping bags could rip, get caught up and tear.

Next innovation is the 'sleep system', bedchair and sleeping bag combined. It takes money away from other industries and puts it as a fishing essential.

The 'Realisation' is that this tackle innovation is to solve a problem that tackle manufacturers created for themselves and anglers.

Now having been outside at -12 in a sleeping bag, I would much rather be outside in a sleeping bag created for survival at those temperatures than a tackle manufacturers sleep system. 

Of the bedchairs I have had over the years, from Lafuma and springs, to Fox, Bison, Badger (heavy, but very comfortable) Saber, Chub and Solar, probably the most comfortable was the Bison, not a flatbed like the Chub and Solar.

Not just in bedchairs, but in tackle, rigs and ideas, are we going forward or backwards?

 

[InteraX]

They're trying to create a captive market where you have to go to them.

Look at landing nets. You used to be able to easily get a handle and a net separately. These days about the only people doing a reasonable carp net without handle are NGT. As for handles, they should last a lifetime if you can find a decent one.

Everything is now being integrated For your convenience or to lock you in.

Eventually, I can see a time when reels will come with Line and you can't reload them without specialist equipment or other things like that.

You won't own anything and you'll be happy.

Sorry if I come across a cynical, but it's what's happening in many other industries. Just look at cars. When most people get a new car these days, they're not the purchaser, the pcp provider is, so if anything goes wrong the dealer won't speak to them. Late stage capitalism.

[OldBoy]

Guessing you guys must be of a 'certain' age?

Without going on and on about the old days (late 80's and 90's) but remember when an Argus bed chair and blanket were fine, might have said this before on a HorseShoe thread tho!

Anyway, can see the way 'carp fishing' is or has gone now, it's big business for a lot of companies, I am not bothered about the latest super bedchair/bivvie/bait boat/rod/reel/ 

bait etc etc.....

Sadly I feel the pastime I really loved in the past is now for the social media generation, sign of the times I know.

As for me, now given up the use of boilies this season, I am doing purely a particle approach, have had a few and just feels nice to me to do something different for a change 👍

[salokcinnodrog]

On 30/08/2026 at 11:14, InteraX said:

They're trying to create a captive market where you have to go to them.

Look at landing nets. You used to be able to easily get a handle and a net separately. These days about the only people doing a reasonable carp net without handle are NGT. As for handles, they should last a lifetime if you can find a decent one.

Everything is now being integrated For your convenience or to lock you in.

Eventually, I can see a time when reels will come with Line and you can't reload them without specialist equipment or other things like that.

You won't own anything and you'll be happy.

Sorry if I come across a cynical, but it's what's happening in many other industries. Just look at cars. When most people get a new car these days, they're not the purchaser, the pcp provider is, so if anything goes wrong the dealer won't speak to them. Late stage capitalism.

 

On 30/08/2026 at 12:56, OldBoy said:

On 30/08/2026 at 12:56, OldBoy said:

Guessing you guys must be of a 'certain' age?

Without going on and on about the old days (late 80's and 90's) but remember when an Argus bed chair and blanket were fine, might have said this before on a HorseShoe thread tho!

Anyway, can see the way 'carp fishing' is or has gone now, it's big business for a lot of companies, I am not bothered about the latest super bedchair/bivvie/bait boat/rod/reel/ 

bait etc etc.....

Sadly I feel the pastime I really loved in the past is now for the social media generation, sign of the times I know.

As for me, now given up the use of boilies this season, I am doing purely a particle approach, have had a few and just feels nice to me to do something different for a change 👍

 

On 30/08/2026 at 12:56, OldBoy said:

Guessing you guys must be of a 'certain' age?

Not sure about that😂

I'm mid 50's if that qualifies, so yes probably. I've seen the change of carp fishing, or fishing as a whole. 

I don't mind the increase in comfort, a sunlounger that would collapse at the most inopportune moment... 

I do much prefer the modern bedchair, even modern bivvies, but I do feel that the prices have made it ridiculous. I still prefer an umbrella system, although I will admit to having used a few domes, and very nice too; Hutchy Apotheosis, Fox EasyDome 1 and 2.

I think it was Rod Hutchinson and Shakespeare who brought the domes onto the market, Cyprydome and the Apotheosis, quite probably the first switch from the camping market.

I caught up with a research video on YouTube this morning, there are only 2 independent reel manufacturers, (Daiwa and Shimano), every other brand is made pretty much made under the same factory roof, whether Okuma, Sonik, Nash, Penn or whoever. The same reel can be sold under multiple brands and names, and at various prices. 

 

 

 

[InteraX]

11 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

 

Not sure about that😂

I'm mid 50's if that qualifies, so yes probably. I've seen the change of carp fishing, or fishing as a whole. 

I don't mind the increase in comfort, a sunlounger that would collapse at the most inopportune moment... 

I do much prefer the modern bedchair, even modern bivvies, but I do feel that the prices have made it ridiculous. I still prefer an umbrella system, although I will admit to having used a few domes, and very nice too; Hutchy Apotheosis, Fox EasyDome 1 and 2.

I think it was Rod Hutchinson and Shakespeare who brought the domes onto the market, Cyprydome and the Apotheosis, quite probably the first switch from the camping market.

I caught up with a research video on YouTube this morning, there are only 2 independent reel manufacturers, (Daiwa and Shimano), every other brand is made pretty much made under the same factory roof, whether Okuma, Sonik, Nash, Penn or whoever. The same reel can be sold under multiple brands and names, and at various prices. 

 

 

 

Can you share that YT video. That might be interesting to see.

I agree that I prefer the modern bedchair. Thankfully I missed out on the sunlounger heyday.

I've got a Trakker RLX flat 6 and I don't have any problem with the big snooze I've got on it. There's only 1 strap across the centre with a hood both top and bottom and no issues. I've even got one of the big trakker pillows on there with a strap around the head section, again with no issues. I don't think having 6 or 8 legs should cause problems to sleeping bags.

A sleep system may be able to reduce some weight, but I suspect for the biggest manufacturers it's there to turn it into a disposable item. You can't take the bag off to wash it. If the zip breaks, you've got to replace the whole top or complete bed. With a separate bedchair and bag, you can swap out parts as necessary.

As I suggested earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if a less honourable reel manufacturer tried to make it so the reel was sold with line and you couldn't replace it yourself. Anything to lock you in.

Look at the way tech and the car industry has gone. I don't doubt they are much more advanced and have a lot more advanced features, but I don't want a subscription for heated seats/headlight arrays or anything else and please stop snooping on what I'm watching on my TV thank you. That's just creepy!

Of a certain age? I'm in my early 50's. I wouldn't have ever thought that description would apply to me, at least not until I'd retired, but maybe we were brought up in a different world (I first came across the internet and email in 1993 when I started at Uni and the only GUI web browser was NCSA Mosaic running on Sun SPARC computers). I don't want to be beholden to the uber wealthy and tied into subscriptions for everything. It may cost me more initially, but I still buy CDs/Vinyl for music. I then have it for a lifetime. If we just allow it to happen then we'll loose everything we gained over the 20th century. The NHS, social security, extended lifespans etc. We've allowed our politicians to be influenced by those with money too much and that's on all sides.

[salokcinnodrog]

 

A couple for you, aimed at the American market

 

 

1 hour ago, InteraX said:

Can you share that YT video. That might be interesting to see.

I agree that I prefer the modern bedchair. Thankfully I missed out on the sunlounger heyday.

I've got a Trakker RLX flat 6 and I don't have any problem with the big snooze I've got on it. There's only 1 strap across the centre with a hood both top and bottom and no issues. I've even got one of the big trakker pillows on there with a strap around the head section, again with no issues. I don't think having 6 or 8 legs should cause problems to sleeping bags.

A sleep system may be able to reduce some weight, but I suspect for the biggest manufacturers it's there to turn it into a disposable item. You can't take the bag off to wash it. If the zip breaks, you've got to replace the whole top or complete bed. With a separate bedchair and bag, you can swap out parts as necessary.

As I suggested earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if a less honourable reel manufacturer tried to make it so the reel was sold with line and you couldn't replace it yourself. Anything to lock you in.

Look at the way tech and the car industry has gone. I don't doubt they are much more advanced and have a lot more advanced features, but I don't want a subscription for heated seats/headlight arrays or anything else and please stop snooping on what I'm watching on my TV thank you. That's just creepy!

Of a certain age? I'm in my early 50's. I wouldn't have ever thought that description would apply to me, at least not until I'd retired, but maybe we were brought up in a different world (I first came across the internet and email in 1993 when I started at Uni and the only GUI web browser was NCSA Mosaic running on Sun SPARC computers). I don't want to be beholden to the uber wealthy and tied into subscriptions for everything. It may cost me more initially, but I still buy CDs/Vinyl for music. I then have it for a lifetime. If we just allow it to happen then we'll loose everything we gained over the 20th century. The NHS, social security, extended lifespans etc. We've allowed our politicians to be influenced by those with money too much and that's on all sides.

 

[OldBoy]

@salokcinnodrog and @InteraX

Sorry guys, no disrpect about age thing, I am slighty older 😂

Can understand why you want a good bedchair for session fishing 👍

On the subject of reels and line:

Before 'Big pit' reels were even thought about. I used big sea fishing reels to do the same job. as for line, well used to fork out for some 'Tryline'' maybe a typo stuff.

However, bought some 15lb sea fishing line after and did exactly the same job and if you think about it, sea fishing line needs to be more abrasion resitant?

 

Don't think AI that has now crept into search stuff is 100% reliable but:

AI Overview

 

There is no exact global count, but dozens of primary factories manufacture raw fishing line worldwide, while hundreds of companies brand and distribute it.

Actual Line Extruders vs. Brand Labels

• The Makers (Extruders): Only a relatively small number of specialized chemical and polymer plants worldwide actually extrude the raw nylon, fluorocarbon, and polyethylene (braid) filaments. Major manufacturing countries include Japan (such as Sunline and Momoi Fishing), China, the United States, and Germany.

• The Brand Owners: Hundreds of tackle companies market and sell fishing line under their own names, but many outsource the actual extrusion and spooling to these specialized manufacturing plants.

[salokcinnodrog]

10 hours ago, OldBoy said:

However, bought some 15lb sea fishing line after and did exactly the same job and if you think about it, sea fishing line needs to be more abrasion resitant?

 

I used Daiwa Sensor for sea fishing and carp fishing, and before that Sylcast for both.

Come to that Gardner Pro has been used by me for sea and carp fishing.

 

I knew that many lines on the carp market are the very same line under different branding.

Makes you wonder why line costs of some are so expensive.

Same with hooks, different brands come from the same factory, although I think that Drennan/ESP manufacturer their own and Kamasan.

A change from the time of Drennan Super Specialists being the only mainstream carp hook.

 

[OldBoy]

12 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

A change from the time of Drennan Super Specialists being the only mainstream carp hook.

 

I used to use Gardener Insizor hooks for my PVA bag rigs on a 'german' rig.

Now gone back to Drennan Super Specialist Wide gape hooks for my current style of fishing, short hook length on a very simple stiff knotless hair rig,  just seems 'lighter' and tbh not had any problems with them at all.

It's really what works for you I guess, just makes me think about how much people waste money on so much rig things too.

After all, isn't a Chod rig actually just an old fashioned 'Helicopter' set up?

But of course you need all the 'c**p' now to be a proper carp angler?

Sorry, mini rant over.

Just off to search for a pot of the latest £45 pot of hookbaits!!!! 😂😂☹️

 

[S34MH1]

I have long been using TICA reels—great value for money—but I'm not sure if anglers here are familiar with the brand. I came across some business reports from Taiwan suggesting that today's Okuma was founded with the help of several technicians who had left TICA. Of course, Okuma reels have since far surpassed TICA in performance. And sometimes I wonder: in this age when almost everyone uses bait boats, are long‑cast carp reels still the top priority? In most situations, a reel like the Shimano Spheros SW (which I learned about from an angling enthusiast named Alan Hawk, who disassembled and reviewed it) is a better choice. In my country, it costs only about £70—exceptionally good value.

Carp angling (European style) is currently booming in China. Many leading brands regard 2025 as the inaugural year for this style of fishing in the Chinese market. Although Daiwa ran a promotional campaign back in 2002, it didn't gain much traction. It wasn't until around 2018 that a Chinese angler systematically compiled a large body of reference materials on carp fishing. After several years of groundwork, combined with the introduction of China's new fisheries regulations (which in principle restrict each angler to one rod, one line, and one hook), this eco‑friendly method—which also blends camping and outdoor lifestyles—has seen explosive growth nationwide. Many local brands have emerged as a result.

Quite a few of these brands simply repackage products that were originally designed by European companies and OEM‑manufactured in China. However, thanks to their low prices, there have apparently been no intellectual‑property disputes so far—and that has greatly helped expand the market.

China is the world's largest single market, and it's also where many well‑known fishing products are manufactured. With abundant water resources to test designs, I am confident that the design and pricing of carp‑angling gear in this market will continue to improve, benefiting carp anglers all over the world.

 

 

[yonny]

3 hours ago, S34MH1 said:

in this age when almost everyone uses bait boats, are long‑cast carp reels still the top priority?

Are you talking about Europe rather than the UK?

I'd say a minority use boats in the UK, although they are growing in popularity al the time. And I'd certainly say that (UK) anglers consider big pit reels a priority.

[InteraX]

4 hours ago, S34MH1 said:

I have long been using TICA reels—great value for money—but I'm not sure if anglers here are familiar with the brand. I came across some business reports from Taiwan suggesting that today's Okuma was founded with the help of several technicians who had left TICA. Of course, Okuma reels have since far surpassed TICA in performance. And sometimes I wonder: in this age when almost everyone uses bait boats, are long‑cast carp reels still the top priority? In most situations, a reel like the Shimano Spheros SW (which I learned about from an angling enthusiast named Alan Hawk, who disassembled and reviewed it) is a better choice. In my country, it costs only about £70—exceptionally good value.

Carp angling (European style) is currently booming in China. Many leading brands regard 2025 as the inaugural year for this style of fishing in the Chinese market. Although Daiwa ran a promotional campaign back in 2002, it didn't gain much traction. It wasn't until around 2018 that a Chinese angler systematically compiled a large body of reference materials on carp fishing. After several years of groundwork, combined with the introduction of China's new fisheries regulations (which in principle restrict each angler to one rod, one line, and one hook), this eco‑friendly method—which also blends camping and outdoor lifestyles—has seen explosive growth nationwide. Many local brands have emerged as a result.

Quite a few of these brands simply repackage products that were originally designed by European companies and OEM‑manufactured in China. However, thanks to their low prices, there have apparently been no intellectual‑property disputes so far—and that has greatly helped expand the market.

China is the world's largest single market, and it's also where many well‑known fishing products are manufactured. With abundant water resources to test designs, I am confident that the design and pricing of carp‑angling gear in this market will continue to improve, benefiting carp anglers all over the world.

 

 

Firstly, it's great to hear of the sport growing in popularity in China. I last visited China (Shanghai) on business in late 2019. It was a really vibrant place back then. I'm not sure I would be comfortable going back there ATM, but who knows what the future holds.

Personally, I've never come across TICA. I suspect they're more aimed at the US market, but please correct me if you think I'm wrong on that.

Whilst bait boats are great tools, they aren't cheap. In fact, compared to a set of big pit reels, a decent bait boat with GPS is very expensive and it's big and heavy. Whilst I'm sure you can be much more accurate with a bait boat, when you have to add that to a barrow and potentially lug it up to a mile to get to your swim, potentially sacrificing something else, the bait boat will probably be one off the first things to be removed from the barrow. Even though I could probably afford it now, I've got other things to worry about.

The IP disputes is probably only a matter of time. Once a big manufacturer gets a significant new product copied and put onto the market very early on in production, then the issue will be taken seriously and something will get done. Right now, from what I can see, it's lots of small things such as line strippers, swivels, rig bits etc. being picked up and sold cheaply in bulk by small discount sellers here in the UK.

As for design, that comes from necessity. Once there are anglers with specific new problems to solve, then people will start designing solutions for those problems and those problems may be specific to the location. It'll be interesting to see what comes in the future when new problems come up.

That's an interesting blowback rig. Personally, I prefer a shorter shank, but it's whatever works. Is that what you caught the fish on? Is that a grass carp? Most of our fishing over here and on this forum is for King/Common Carp (Cyprinus Carpio), but doesn't mean we won't discuss other species.

Tight lines!