Today's Bait rolling thought.

[elmoputney]

8 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I don't think I would love it enough to go through the pain, I will continue just messing with liquids and powders to scratch the itch 👍

Got some pellets being coated in liquid at the moment, hopefully they will have dried out enough to coat them in some premium attract + powder tonight, then I might even try and go fishing to test them if I am allowed 😂

They look pretty smart with the powder added and smell like bananas mmmmm 

[salokcinnodrog]

20 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I buy steamed, not sure it makes a difference but makes me feel like I am winning in some way. 

Years ago I was at Taverham Mills testing baits against each other, steamed versus boiled, (various boiling times) blocked and cut (the whole block being cooked in boiling water then cut into squares), and just dried.

The results were inconclusive, not a failure because the fish loved them all, clearing the area within minutes of a handful of bait going in. 

If anything the only failure was discovering that edge pieces of blocked baits floated.

It was then down to breakdown time, and steamed and boiled baits took longer in a large tank break down than the other forms, because of the harder outer skin.

Final point, there is absolutely no need to boil a boilie for any longer than 2minutes, it is down to drying time on how hard they are.

[elmoputney]

5 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Years ago I was at Taverham Mills testing baits against each other, steamed versus boiled, (various boiling times) blocked and cut (the whole block being cooked in boiling water then cut into squares), and just dried.

The results were inconclusive, not a failure because the fish loved them all, clearing the area within minutes of a handful of bait going in. 

If anything the only failure was discovering that edge pieces of blocked baits floated.

It was then down to breakdown time, and steamed and boiled baits took longer in a large tank break down than the other forms, because of the harder outer skin.

Final point, there is absolutely no need to boil a boilie for any longer than 2minutes, it is down to drying time on how hard they are.

Maybe if you had glugged it before you chucked it in they might have all sunk, interesting idea though maybe something to think about. Was thinking maybe fastish breakdown nuggets. 

 

 

 

 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

5 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Maybe if you had glugged it before you chucked it in they might have all sunk, interesting idea though maybe something to think about. Was thinking maybe fastish breakdown nuggets. 

 

 

 

 

 

The block method was basically a way to get a particle type boilie. It's easier to block and cook the base mix, then cut rather than roll 8, 10 or 12mm boilies. The floating edge pieces made great critically balanced baits, even pop-ups on stack rigs.

The floating bits did also work well for surface fishing like floater cake made with base mix as per Brian Skoyles method.

 

Glugging wasn't really a thing back in the 1990's, it was coming in with a decent food source bait, glugging started early 2000's I guess, maybe a bit before.

 

 

Fast breakdown nuggets?

When the ball pellet was a fashion, I was rolling baits (and additives) mixed with water and airdried. They did go out with a throwing stick as well.

 

[elmoputney]

11 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

The block method was basically a way to get a particle type boilie. It's easier to block and cook the base mix, then cut rather than roll 8, 10 or 12mm boilies. The floating edge pieces made great critically balanced baits, even pop-ups on stack rigs.

The floating bits did also work well for surface fishing like floater cake made with base mix as per Brian Skoyles method.

 

Glugging wasn't really a thing back in the 1990's, it was coming in with a decent food source bait, glugging started early 2000's I guess, maybe a bit before.

 

 

Fast breakdown nuggets?

When the ball pellet was a fashion, I was rolling baits (and additives) mixed with water and airdried. They did go out with a throwing stick as well.

 

I've been having a look at pellet makers, basically a mincer I think. 

So if you wanted to make a fast breakdown pellet would you just not use egg with your base mix/powders etc and just use water and possibly other liquids then just air dry? 

[jh92]

7 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

I've been having a look at pellet makers, basically a mincer I think. 

So if you wanted to make a fast breakdown pellet would you just not use egg with your base mix/powders etc and just use water and possibly other liquids then just air dry? 

I'm yet to try it but I've got a pellet attachment for my extruder and the company recommend using water instead of eggs, adding liquids are fine, then left to dry by air. This is their recommendation though so I can't comment on breakdown times or how effective it is lol.

I believe you can use eggs if you want but using water will break down a lot quicker 👍

 

[elmoputney]

14 minutes ago, jh92 said:

I'm yet to try it but I've got a pellet attachment for my extruder and the company recommend using water instead of eggs, adding liquids are fine, then left to dry by air. This is their recommendation though so I can't comment on breakdown times or how effective it is lol.

I believe you can use eggs if you want but using water will break down a lot quicker 👍

 

Might be interesting to try making some fast breakdown baits, especially as I only get to do overnighters usually. Could be a good way of getting them on the feed quicker. That being said I could just buy some fast breakdown pellets and save the faffing about. 

[jh92]

On 17/01/2025 at 13:00, framey said:

Think it depends on any active ingredient you are using 

if it’s active 

the last thing you want to do is kill it by boiling it 

But does it ruin the bait completely, or is it just the 'skin' like once it starts breaking down past that, will it be good again?

I don't boil for very long, just to get a skin on them and for the hookbaits I'll boil to the first one floats lol

Still all a learning curve for me 👍🤣

[jh92]

15 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Might be interesting to try making some fast breakdown baits, especially as I only get to do overnighters usually. Could be a good way of getting them on the feed quicker. That being said I could just buy some fast breakdown pellets and save the faffing about. 

Suppose it all depends on the quantity you're doing and if you enjoy it mate, if it's only for like a kilo or two probably worth just buying them lol.

Getting everything set up today, need to make a new stand for the extruder as the one supplied doesn't stay in a fixed position and can move, throwing the sausage off the roller. Head ache 🤣

[elmoputney]

28 minutes ago, jh92 said:

Suppose it all depends on the quantity you're doing and if you enjoy it mate, if it's only for like a kilo or two probably worth just buying them lol.

Getting everything set up today, need to make a new stand for the extruder as the one supplied doesn't stay in a fixed position and can move, throwing the sausage off the roller. Head ache 🤣

Can you not bolt it, clamp it or strap it down somehow ? Seems weird that would be designed so that it was free moving. Good luck though 

[jh92]

14 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Can you not bolt it, clamp it or strap it down somehow ? Seems weird that would be designed so that it was free moving. Good luck though 

Didn't think of that mate, yeah maybe like a leather belt or something to strap over it will pin it down enough to stop it moving.

It's a pvc stand that I can screw into the bench, but the extruder just sits ontop freely, so yeah a strap is probably the way to go 🤦‍♂️🤣

The chest freezer is slowly filling up, cooked up 5kg of hemp the other night, doing 5kg of tigers this morning 🤙

[framey]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

Might be interesting to try making some fast breakdown baits, especially as I only get to do overnighters usually. Could be a good way of getting them on the feed quicker. That being said I could just buy some fast breakdown pellets and save the faffing about. 

Just buy some paste from your bait supplier that is still very much overlooked.

even if you just wrap it around a boilie 

[framey]

1 hour ago, jh92 said:

Suppose it all depends on the quantity you're doing and if you enjoy it mate, if it's only for like a kilo or two probably worth just buying them lol.

Getting everything set up today, need to make a new stand for the extruder as the one supplied doesn't stay in a fixed position and can move, throwing the sausage off the roller. Head ache 🤣

Is there anywhere on it you could use a clamp of some description ?

[jh92]

1 hour ago, framey said:

Is there anywhere on it you could use a clamp of some description ?

Na mate, I will try a belt or a velcro strap and see how it goes 👍

[salokcinnodrog]

5 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I've been having a look at pellet makers, basically a mincer I think. 

So if you wanted to make a fast breakdown pellet would you just not use egg with your base mix/powders etc and just use water and possibly other liquids then just air dry? 

 

5 hours ago, jh92 said:

I'm yet to try it but I've got a pellet attachment for my extruder and the company recommend using water instead of eggs, adding liquids are fine, then left to dry by air. This is their recommendation though so I can't comment on breakdown times or how effective it is lol.

I believe you can use eggs if you want but using water will break down a lot quicker 👍

 

 

4 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Might be interesting to try making some fast breakdown baits, especially as I only get to do overnighters usually. Could be a good way of getting them on the feed quicker. That being said I could just buy some fast breakdown pellets and save the faffing about. 

 

4 hours ago, jh92 said:

Suppose it all depends on the quantity you're doing and if you enjoy it mate, if it's only for like a kilo or two probably worth just buying them lol.

Getting everything set up today, need to make a new stand for the extruder as the one supplied doesn't stay in a fixed position and can move, throwing the sausage off the roller. Head ache 🤣

I think that the original ball pellets were hard compressed with no liquids, where trout pellet shaped fast breakdown pellets get extruded through a machine (gun or rolling table) so must have liquids added.

 

Eggs definitely slow the breakdown time compared to water as water totally evaporates and doesn't bind like eggs.

 

 

 

On 17/01/2025 at 13:00, framey said:

Think it depends on any active ingredient you are using 

if it’s active 

the last thing you want to do is kill it by boiling it 

 

4 hours ago, jh92 said:

But does it ruin the bait completely, or is it just the 'skin' like once it starts breaking down past that, will it be good again?

I don't boil for very long, just to get a skin on them and for the hookbaits I'll boil to the first one floats lol

Still all a learning curve for me 👍🤣

 

2 hours ago, framey said:

Just buy some paste from your bait supplier that is still very much overlooked.

even if you just wrap it around a boilie 

This is where boiling times come into play. A 1minute or to float boil  will often be just a skin on the bait, with a paste centre, whereas boiling until cooked through, say 1minute 30seconds will be a solid centre. Think of it as a steak is cooked. Blue is just the outer skin cooked, well done is cooked through (overcooked to my mind)

The paste centre on a lightly cooked bait will gradually dry out, becoming solid when air dried. 

The longer cooked bait is already solid.

In theory the soft centred bait should still have activity from any enzymes, and less denatured proteins, vitamins and minerals etc as heat kills them, and with less heat reaching the centre, they can survive, as will any yeast products which are heat sensitive.

 

@framey 's comment is very much worthwhile, you have the breakdown and attraction, even if you wrap pre-hooking or pre-fishing; letting the paste dry and harden. 

[jh92]

Just mixed up 20kg of basemix by hand and did not enjoy it 🤣🤣 with my mixer i have 3 attachments, paddle, hook and whisk. Would one of these be good for mixer the powders together? Any suggestions would be great 👍