Danny Hearn Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Yeah ingredients prices through the roof. Had a long old chat with my bait guy recently and I was getting onto him to let me buy his recipes and start making the same bait I been buying because as morbid as it sounds he’s getting on and it’s scary to think one day I may not be able to buy the bait I been using since I started taking my fishing seriously. Geezers a legend and he was honest with me and said if you wanna make the same bait as what I make you son it’s gonna cost you at least £4.50 a kilo to produce and that’s without any flavourings enhancers etc. basically dooming me thinking I could start making bait and selling it because yeah you can pick up 10kg mainline for like £60 I asked him why so much ? He said to me as an example dynamite baits claim to contain 12% protein and obv I said what does ours contain and he said we’re touching 40% on the fish meals. honestly I have seen this bait outperform in the next swim where my pal using another bait time and time again. I mean on campaigns. Prebaiting together etc. maybe on a day ticket the difference might not be so noticeable but as an example we baited about 3 times a week from the start of June up until the start of September( no fishing ) Not much bait only half kilo each each prebaiting mission and we both dropped in and started from a few days into September. Over that autumn I landed 12 fish (close to a third of the stock I’m told) and my poor mate landed 1 in the same amount of sessions, I lost 1 fish to hook pull at the net and 1 to a pike biting through the line and jumping out the water as I was playing the fish. Let’s just say he uses the same bait as me now. I had 7 fish on the first session and he blanked the lake is just about an acre in size. Last autumn I baited the swim he was in and dropped in and had 4 in 1 session so it wasn’t to do with areas they do get in there and feed where he was focusing on . quality bait costs we pay £9 a kilo now and we buy 30kg a time it was £8 a kilo a year ago and he has said the way it’s looking it’s gonna have to go up again soon. I said to him what about diluting it he said no way I don’t like change I would rather loose customers than change the recipe I been using for 40 years. bad thing is on this particular lake if you use particle or pellet the small fish swarm you and the pike savage you in response I have had 5pike landed and many more cutting through hooklink line etc since I been on there, so the best thing to do is just use boilie only nuts are banned and I prefer to not break rules of any kind in life in general On 22/06/2022 at 21:04, elmoputney said: To be fair when I was looking at prestige barrows a while ago, they had already increased the prices quite a lot, and they never seemed to be in stock in a lot of shops, can't do any harm I don't think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpbell3 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Danny Hearn said: Yeah ingredients prices through the roof. Had a long old chat with my bait guy recently and I was getting onto him to let me buy his recipes and start making the same bait I been buying because as morbid as it sounds he’s getting on and it’s scary to think one day I may not be able to buy the bait I been using since I started taking my fishing seriously. Geezers a legend and he was honest with me and said if you wanna make the same bait as what I make you son it’s gonna cost you at least £4.50 a kilo to produce and that’s without any flavourings enhancers etc. basically dooming me thinking I could start making bait and selling it because yeah you can pick up 10kg mainline for like £60 I asked him why so much ? He said to me as an example dynamite baits claim to contain 12% protein and obv I said what does ours contain and he said we’re touching 40% on the fish meals. honestly I have seen this bait outperform in the next swim where my pal using another bait time and time again. I mean on campaigns. Prebaiting together etc. maybe on a day ticket the difference might not be so noticeable but as an example we baited about 3 times a week from the start of June up until the start of September( no fishing ) Not much bait only half kilo each each prebaiting mission and we both dropped in and started from a few days into September. Over that autumn I landed 12 fish (close to a third of the stock I’m told) and my poor mate landed 1 in the same amount of sessions, I lost 1 fish to hook pull at the net and 1 to a pike biting through the line and jumping out the water as I was playing the fish. Let’s just say he uses the same bait as me now. I had 7 fish on the first session and he blanked the lake is just about an acre in size. Last autumn I baited the swim he was in and dropped in and had 4 in 1 session so it wasn’t to do with areas they do get in there and feed where he was focusing on . quality bait costs we pay £9 a kilo now and we buy 30kg a time it was £8 a kilo a year ago and he has said the way it’s looking it’s gonna have to go up again soon. I said to him what about diluting it he said no way I don’t like change I would rather loose customers than change the recipe I been using for 40 years. bad thing is on this particular lake if you use particle or pellet the small fish swarm you and the pike savage you in response I have had 5pike landed and many more cutting through hooklink line etc since I been on there, so the best thing to do is just use boilie only nuts are banned and I prefer to not break rules of any kind in life in general Slippy slope that accepting any rules and laws as valid I'm a if no one is complaining kind of guy. Bait like a few other products can be made to fit any budget I like messing around with bait I wouldn't call out the big companies though a good angler don't need a great bait. Me I can't catch nothing with shelflife baits I even struggle with CCmoore baits I like the honey to a badger approach. Danny Hearn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Carpbell3 said: Slippy slope that accepting any rules and laws as valid I'm a if no one is complaining kind of guy. Bait like a few other products can be made to fit any budget I like messing around with bait I wouldn't call out the big companies though a good angler don't need a great bait. Me I can't catch nothing with shelflife baits I even struggle with CCmoore baits I like the honey to a badger approach. Shelf life baits are now falling into 2 categories; attractor baits and food source baits, where maybe 15-20 years ago most were just attractor baits. As attractor baits, you don't want many around the hookbait, maybe 5 or so, with limited feed. You are relying on the attractor qualities of the bait for a pick-up. You could fish them (or a food bait boilie) over your background feed, groundbait, particles etc, but you don't want to prebait with them as the nutrition may not be high enough to get continued feeding. A food source bait, whether shelf life, air-dried or frozen can be pre-baited, conditioning the carp into eating them permanently. As a spotty youth, a bag of shelfies would last me weeks. I couldn't afford to pile in bait every weekend, so it was an out of the bag hookbait, with a stringer and maybe a few freebies catapulted around the area. Spods weren't invented, so any background feed was impossible! The advance of shelf life food baits, like Trigga, Solar Seafood Takeaway, Crafty Catcher King Prawn and Crab and Sea Salt, Rod Hutchinsons KMG and Monster Crab means that now I'm comfortable with shelfies. We then hit our next 'barrier', the type of water. A water where the carp are reliant on bait, of any type, 'overstocked' as it were, where the bait is needed to survive is a different kettle of fish (sic) to a water which is rich in natural food. The overstocked water you can get a take on anything, yet the rich water the carp may have a distinct preference for a good nutritious bait. They may pick up the attractor bait from being inquisitive but it may not last long as a viable bait. The food source will potentially be chosen over other foods; effort equals reward, or 1 food source boilie provides more nutrition than 2 mouthfuls of bloodworm, and is easier to eat. We also have the DF spod mix approach. A background feed composed of groundbait, be that Vitalin, particles, pellets, and a boilie over the groundbait. The boilie only approach, either food source or shelfie is now very rare. Danny Hearn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpbell3 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 2 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said: Shelf life baits are now falling into 2 categories; attractor baits and food source baits, where maybe 15-20 years ago most were just attractor baits. As attractor baits, you don't want many around the hookbait, maybe 5 or so, with limited feed. You are relying on the attractor qualities of the bait for a pick-up. You could fish them (or a food bait boilie) over your background feed, groundbait, particles etc, but you don't want to prebait with them as the nutrition may not be high enough to get continued feeding. A food source bait, whether shelf life, air-dried or frozen can be pre-baited, conditioning the carp into eating them permanently. As a spotty youth, a bag of shelfies would last me weeks. I couldn't afford to pile in bait every weekend, so it was an out of the bag hookbait, with a stringer and maybe a few freebies catapulted around the area. Spods weren't invented, so any background feed was impossible! The advance of shelf life food baits, like Trigga, Solar Seafood Takeaway, Crafty Catcher King Prawn and Crab and Sea Salt, Rod Hutchinsons KMG and Monster Crab means that now I'm comfortable with shelfies. We then hit our next 'barrier', the type of water. A water where the carp are reliant on bait, of any type, 'overstocked' as it were, where the bait is needed to survive is a different kettle of fish (sic) to a water which is rich in natural food. The overstocked water you can get a take on anything, yet the rich water the carp may have a distinct preference for a good nutritious bait. They may pick up the attractor bait from being inquisitive but it may not last long as a viable bait. The food source will potentially be chosen over other foods; effort equals reward, or 1 food source boilie provides more nutrition than 2 mouthfuls of bloodworm, and is easier to eat. We also have the DF spod mix approach. A background feed composed of groundbait, be that Vitalin, particles, pellets, and a boilie over the groundbait. The boilie only approach, either food source or shelfie is now very One of the reasons I want a packed out bird food bait a fair few whole seeds in it, will be putting a fair amount of conditioner and hemp out. One of the most consistent anglers I have seen is Ralph from whelly boilie only no pop ups 5 kilo of homemade bait every session he did give me a few to have a look at then laughed as I wouldn't be able to copy it, very light milk bait with fenugreek smells coming off it is what it looked like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Hearn Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 16/02/2023 at 09:57, salokcinnodrog said: Shelf life baits are now falling into 2 categories; attractor baits and food source baits, where maybe 15-20 years ago most were just attractor baits. As attractor baits, you don't want many around the hookbait, maybe 5 or so, with limited feed. You are relying on the attractor qualities of the bait for a pick-up. You could fish them (or a food bait boilie) over your background feed, groundbait, particles etc, but you don't want to prebait with them as the nutrition may not be high enough to get continued feeding. A food source bait, whether shelf life, air-dried or frozen can be pre-baited, conditioning the carp into eating them permanently. As a spotty youth, a bag of shelfies would last me weeks. I couldn't afford to pile in bait every weekend, so it was an out of the bag hookbait, with a stringer and maybe a few freebies catapulted around the area. Spods weren't invented, so any background feed was impossible! The advance of shelf life food baits, like Trigga, Solar Seafood Takeaway, Crafty Catcher King Prawn and Crab and Sea Salt, Rod Hutchinsons KMG and Monster Crab means that now I'm comfortable with shelfies. We then hit our next 'barrier', the type of water. A water where the carp are reliant on bait, of any type, 'overstocked' as it were, where the bait is needed to survive is a different kettle of fish (sic) to a water which is rich in natural food. The overstocked water you can get a take on anything, yet the rich water the carp may have a distinct preference for a good nutritious bait. They may pick up the attractor bait from being inquisitive but it may not last long as a viable bait. The food source will potentially be chosen over other foods; effort equals reward, or 1 food source boilie provides more nutrition than 2 mouthfuls of bloodworm, and is easier to eat. We also have the DF spod mix approach. A background feed composed of groundbait, be that Vitalin, particles, pellets, and a boilie over the groundbait. The boilie only approach, either food source or shelfie is now very rare. Sorry what does Df spod mix mean ? I learned a lot again thanks for your reply. seems I have been feeding the carp in this particular lake something they enjoy more than the pellets the club feed or the other anglers less quality baits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framey Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Danny Hearn said: Sorry what does Df spod mix mean ? I learned a lot again thanks for your reply. seems I have been feeding the carp in this particular lake something they enjoy more than the pellets the club feed or the other anglers less quality baits Danny fairbrass lol spodding the granny out of it Edited February 17, 2023 by framey Danny Hearn and salokcinnodrog 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B B Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 A fishery near to me has put a ban on spoding particles, you’re allowed to only spod boilles and pellets Iv heard of others putting a ban on particles as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpbell3 Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 17 hours ago, B B said: A fishery near to me has put a ban on spoding particles, you’re allowed to only spod boilles and pellets Iv heard of others putting a ban on particles as well. Not surprised, they don't like the fish getting caught too easy on modern lakes anything that works well gets a ban eventually. My dread is only having well managed lakes to fish telling you how and where to fish, no point in going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Carpbell3 said: Not surprised, they don't like the fish getting caught too easy on modern lakes anything that works well gets a ban eventually. My dread is only having well managed lakes to fish telling you how and where to fish, no point in going. 19 hours ago, B B said: A fishery near to me has put a ban on spoding particles, you’re allowed to only spod boilles and pellets Iv heard of others putting a ban on particles as well. Layer Pits put a ban on spodding baits, must be around 2000. The response from all the carp anglers was balling in hemp mixed in Vitalin. The spodded bait ban was lifted a season or two later, although not being a CAPS member I don't know current rules and conditions. 20 hours ago, Danny Hearn said: Sorry what does Df spod mix mean ? I learned a lot again thanks for your reply. seems I have been feeding the carp in this particular lake something they enjoy more than the pellets the club feed or the other anglers less quality baits 19 hours ago, framey said: Danny fairbrass lol spodding the granny out of it @framey Thanks. I was on 'set times' for looking at the forum as I was fishing, First thing in the morning and last thing at night. @Danny Hearn if your bait and baiting is working, stick with it, but look for when results start to drop. At this point it may be time to adapt and come up with something different. Danny Hearn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Hearn Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 18/02/2023 at 13:29, salokcinnodrog said: Layer Pits put a ban on spodding baits, must be around 2000. The response from all the carp anglers was balling in hemp mixed in Vitalin. The spodded bait ban was lifted a season or two later, although not being a CAPS member I don't know current rules and conditions. @framey Thanks. I was on 'set times' for looking at the forum as I was fishing, First thing in the morning and last thing at night. @Danny Hearn if your bait and baiting is working, stick with it, but look for when results start to drop. At this point it may be time to adapt and come up with something different. Possibly might start getting wary ? I have 1 fish left I wanna catch. Had some serious repeats 5 captures of 1 fish 4 of another and doubled up on a quite a few. I think I’m going to change the area I have been focusing on this spring because he should have come along by now. If I don’t bag him this season I’m gonna have to move on. Lake is murky so singling out a particular fish is extremely difficult. If I don’t have him this season I’m gonna have to move on at least for a while because life’s too short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Danny Hearn said: Possibly might start getting wary ? I have 1 fish left I wanna catch. Had some serious repeats 5 captures of 1 fish 4 of another and doubled up on a quite a few. I think I’m going to change the area I have been focusing on this spring because he should have come along by now. If I don’t bag him this season I’m gonna have to move on. Lake is murky so singling out a particular fish is extremely difficult. If I don’t have him this season I’m gonna have to move on at least for a while because life’s too short Some fish can be resident in a particular area, almost pushing other fish away. Big Scale at Waveney nearly always used to get caught from a particular spot on D/E lake. (Big Carp by Tom Paisley). That one fish may also feed differently, or slightly off the baited spot, and can avoid capture by doing so. Danny Hearn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B B Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 Spring is on its way, Leave for work just as it’s getting light and back home and still got a bit of daylight, Daffs and crocuses are up and about with the Bream getting down and frisky Danny Hearn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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