Samgpat Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Good Morning Gents, Wondering if anyone can help me. I got back last night with the mrs from a 2day session at lizards in west drayton last night. 1st day/ night we had 4 carp from 14- 18 from 1pm first day to 02am second second day. No bites were missed and we landed every time. We were using a safety lead system with korda danny fairbrass rigs size 8 and normal white 15mm boilies. The second day was painful so i switched up the bait to a 15mm pop up. Finally some action and the bait runner/ bite alarm went absolutely mental. I struck and felt like the fish was on... mental bend in the rod and all of a sudden the fish was gone. All bait and rig in tact. I then thoight it may be something to do with using the pop up so i changed to a 20mm normal boiley. The same rod, runner and bite alarm went absolutely crazy again and the exact same thing happened. The only two knocks i had all day felt like huge fish and felt hooked but then they were lost. Can someone explain whether this is bad luck or if something id done wrong as i cant get over it! I have 3 fox eos rods and tf gear reels. Many thanks Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayvid Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 So many factors but I suspect bad luck , also if you fish a venue were a few fish have mouth damage you will lose a few no matter what rig you use . I prefer 15 mm baits or their abouts ,i only go bigger if nuisance fish become a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samgpat Posted August 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Thats what i was hoping david. Just got me questioning because it was the last/ only two of the day and it got me asking all sorts of questions! No doubt some of the fish in there have mouth damage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpbell_ll Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 If you had the same hook on that you used on the first day it may of become dull, especially if it was a korda hook, you can hone the hook point at least once before changing. I got some of those new korda sharpened hooks in a krank pattern very pleased with them so far. although, the hook did come out in the net. I have also found that a size 8 hook can be a bit hit and miss on a pop up rig, never used one on a bottom bait I use a size 6 for most of my fishing and would happily use a size 4 for snowman rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samgpat Posted August 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 I had 2 on the same hook the day before and yes it was korda. How often would you recommend changing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpbell_ll Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Get a little file the taska one works and doesn't cost silly money and just touch the hook up after a few fish, the hooks last a lot longer, as for when to change depends on the situation at the time. Samgpat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Paws Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Almost definitely hook point dulled over. It doesn't matter what brand of hook you use, they all lose their sharpness after catching a fish or even just being in the water. I use http://www.jagproducts.co.uk/product/hook-sharpening-kit and check every hook before casting. Even brand new hooks out of the packet are sharper with a few light strokes with the sharpening stone file. Most blunted hooks can be rescued by using the diamond file and finishing with the stones. The ultra eye is useful for checking that the hook point tapers to a point and a quick nick on the thumb confirms if the hook is 'sticky sharp'. Samgpat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Get a decent brand of hook. I have landed 10 fish on ESP hooks when I used them years ago, although I check the hook before every cast. Also, a run and 'lost' take does not always signify a dropped fish. It could be a fish trailing line that gives you a run, which as you pick up is nowhere near hooked, just lead or line running over your line. It could be a hookpull; maybe the fish weren't feeding strong enough to be properly hooked. Possibly your rig (and/or hair) was too short. Change one thing at a time. From what you have said, fish were not feeding (or comfortably) where you were fishing. Samgpat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samgpat Posted August 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 Thanks guys. I was using pre made rigs and am looking to start tieing my own. Does anyone have a link to a step by step guide or a tutorial video? Then i can ensure i have enough sharpened hooks and different length rigs to choose from. Without it costing mega money. Thanks again. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commonly Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 This app is very good on google play. Fishing knots Practice makes perfect, get 2 pulling tools, I pull everything down as tight as possible. Near bending the hook and 100% sure the knots will not snap. ... and Samgpat 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Paws Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 I'm sorry to disagree with you commonly but pulling with 2 tools until the hook is 'near bending' will weaken the hook and make it more likely to open up during a fight. I grip the hook with a pair of forceps along the shank of the hook and pull it with a tool at the the swivel end so it beds down. Coming back to Sam's last question, they are loads of rigs out there and some are designed to work in certain situations. Chod rigs are designed for slack line fishing over weed beds with a pop up's whereas Hinge Stiff Rigs, Ronnie's or Multi Rigs are designed for pop up's over clearer ground, although nothing is ever clear cut and you could argue you could use any rig in different circumstances. Work out what type of bottom you are fishing over and then decide if you want to fish a pop up/wafter/bottom bait and take it from there. Personally most lakes I fish have cleanish bottoms and I prefer a wafter that is critically balanced (I usually add more cork to make it so or you could use use a pop up and add some putty) and fish Combi rigs (fluorocarbon to make it stiff and reset with a flexible supple braid for the last inch to make the bait behave naturally.) If that wasn't enough, you have to decide on the length of trace. Wisdom says that very large fish need a longer trace and if you fish PVA bags, a very short length is commonly advised. It's a very subjective subject but you have to decide on how best to tackle what is in front of you. I tie all my own traces and get a bit more satisfaction from it rather than just buying one over the counter and you can tweak them to get better results. Good luck. Samgpat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commonly Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Golden Paws said: I'm sorry to disagree with you commonly but pulling with 2 tools until the hook is 'near bending' will weaken the hook and make it more likely to open up during a fight. I grip the hook with a pair of forceps along the shank of the hook and pull it with a tool at the the swivel end so it beds down Don't be sorry paws. I personally use a chod pen with my thumb at the bend of the hook. A pulling tool or even the ring on the scissors will suffice. I made mention to practice, which IMO, is the most important part of it. I've never had a hook open up, or bent and had a few thirties. I can't quite see forceps gripping the hook enough to be able to pull it down tight enough. Do you mean pliers? I tend to use Kranks in all types(chod or curved) so in my mind, this method would undoubtedly weaken the hook. Or slip out when I pull it down. When I said near bend I meant exactly that, the written word is always misunderstood on here. Great advice for OP, Although personally I'd only really use a trace for pike/perch/cat fishing?? I tend to tie hook links for carp. I'm no expert and currently honing my zig fishing, on the odd occasion I get lakeside. Now that is a relatively simple rig and no need for bags of bits n Bob's. Rigs are constantly evolving and the vids and mags will tell you need this and that terminal tackle, my advice would be to keep things simple because otherwise before you know it you will of blown £50 on bits of metal and rubber, etc. that you don't really need. Got the t shirt on that one, 🙄 Golden Paws 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Paws Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 Glad we disagree slightly and not fall out! I do use forceps and grip them as well as the hook but am blooming careful not to get the point too close to my fingers! Rigs are a source of great debate and everyone will have a different viewpoint and just as soon as you are happy with one, another 'expert' will try to convince you theirs is the best thing since sliced bread. The main premise is that by using a sharp hook and a rig that doesn't tangle or will reset if a fish 'does' you will result in more fish. Hitting the clip when casting and using a PVA mesh or stringer will help straighten out the hooklength. There are loads of articles out there or youtube video's, search out the best for your situation and apply it and you should start to pick up more fish. commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 Personally I think for most fishing a simple knotless knot with a line aligner of silicon or shrink tubing and a decent hair is the best presentation going. I rarely worry about Chod rigs, and I definitely DO NOT use them anywhere near weed; they can give delayed or even no indication, something I have personally experienced, leading to lost fish, which when fishing for fish over 30lb is not something I care to be doing. Bomb on the end of the line set-ups, commonly known as helicopter or chod rigs most definitely can lead to fish making it away to snags with just one or two bleeps, over 30metres away from where they picked the bait up when fishing at 100metres. A knotless knot is simple to tie, and I pull mine tight with they finger hole on my forceps, putting the hook on it and pulling the hooklink tight. I use that rig for bottom baits, and snowman baits. If I want to have a proper hair with a snowman bait, I put a bottom bait on the hair, and tie a pop-up to the end of the loop. It sounds more complicated than it is. I do sometimes tie the hook on, and have a sliding ring on the shank, with movement limited by a hook stop. To this sliding ring I tie a hair with whatever bait I want, double bottom baits, snowman or even a pop-up. If I fish a pop-up specifically, I normally go to a D-rig with a ring on the D to tie my pop-up to. Hooklink material: in weed I normally use braid, fished inline with a 'zipp' shaped lead. I rarely get fish caught up in the weed, it slides over the lead. I do NOT use lead clips at all. I've fished for big fish, over 30lb, and all my 20's and 30's have come on fairly simple rigs. More anglers are caught by rig fashion than fish! My personal best fish (a river carp, over 28lb, NOT my largest fish), was caught on two 18mm boilies on the hair, on a braid line aligned knotless knot rig. My largest fish over 30lb (and other 30's) were caught on that sliding ring on the hookshank. I was tying the hair length to suit snowman baits. I am sure that there are pictures of my rigs around the forum, definitely in rig section😉 Rig fashion is dictated by tackle companies and media to convince you to spend money. As for hooks, I found Korda awful. They would not hold their point, were blunt from the pack, and the Kamakura (?) was an attempt to change this. I have pictures of me lifting a size 6 on the ball of my finger or thumb with a 3oz lead attached, lifted off the desk, it did not penetrate. A mate and I fish together, I borrowed one of his rigs, tied exactly the same as mine. I was getting bleeps, but no runs. I put my tied rig on the spot, within minutes a hooked fish.The hook he had tied with was a Korda Kurv, mine was a Gardner Mugga. I do not think it a coincidence that a rig cast to exactly the same spot with a brand I knew (and trust) caught me fish. I only trust a few brands as being sharp enough out the pack; Gamakatsu, Gardner, Solar 101's, Kamasan B175's or the ESP. ESP Cryogens are supposedly even better than the older T-4 and G4 patterns I used. commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 17 hours ago, Golden Paws said: I'm sorry to disagree with you commonly but pulling with 2 tools until the hook is 'near bending' will weaken the hook and make it more likely to open up during a fight. No it wont buddy. A hook is basically spring. It can flex a lot until it yields. As long as the yield strength is not exceeded during testing of rigs the hook cannot be weakened in any way. Once the yield is exceeded (i.e. if the hook bends even slightly) the hook will weaken significantly. Some guys modify hooks be bending them - it's a bad idea. But testing rigs to the point the hook is "near bending" is absolutely fine👍 commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted August 31, 2019 Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 On 27 August 2019 at 08:53, yonny said: No it wont buddy. A hook is basically spring. It can flex a lot until it yields. As long as the yield strength is not exceeded during testing of rigs the hook cannot be weakened in any way. Once the yield is exceeded (i.e. if the hook bends even slightly) the hook will weaken significantly. Some guys modify hooks be bending them - it's a bad idea. But testing rigs to the point the hook is "near bending" is absolutely fine👍 Yonny and I may disagree on some things in fishing, our fishing is different, however when it comes to hooks we agree. Test your knots, make sure that they are tight, but don't bend the hook. You can feel the 'flex', before they bend, that is to the maximum it will go. Some hook patterns will not bend, they snap first. If a hook has bent, replace it. That is from your testing or from as occasionally happens, hitting and catching a snag. As I said earlier, get a pattern you trust; test them before you even think of tying a rig you fish with. Check your hookpoint, make sure it is sharp. Again this is where Yonny and I have different views, I use hooks straight from the pack, he prefers to give them a rub up to sharpen them to extreme point. Whichever you prefer, check it every cast. Some waters blunt hooks overnight, the point just dulls and is not as sharp as when it was cast in. If you turn a point over, don't straighten it, change the hook. Keep things as simple as possible. Most rigs are fashion, catching more anglers than fish. On most waters you do not need to complicate the issue. Get the fish to feed comfortably around your hookbait and they are more likely (in most cases) to get hooked. If you drop fish, or don't get runs when you think you should check and change one thing at a time. Hair length, rig length, even how much you feed; Increasing the amount of food may be the answer instead of changing the rig. Instead of feeding just boilies, add particles, groundbait or both to see if the fish will stop picking individual items. Maybe if boilie fishing, instead of just a single bait or stringer put in a hundred boilies or so. One kilo of groundbait is the same as one kilo of boilies, around 250 boilies I guess, but is concentrated on one spot. The boilies spread out. A kilo of hemp or pigeon conditioner is more a carpet than a kilo of boilies. Lots of thoughts to think about, some running through my head in no fixed order, so this is slightly disjointed, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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