Running rig woes/getting done

[Brutus]

Evening,

Just wondered, who here fishes running rigs?

im having a bit of a conundrum at a place I fish where I feel I’m getting done - I’ve landed a few, respectable sizes too (17/20 & 23lb) So I’m on the right tracks - I think. But there are odd occasions that I get a two or three tone beep on the alarm, really quickly. I strike, and nothing. 

I’m fishing light leads as the lake is probably 80 yards in width, so don’t need to go too crazy weight wise. Also quite a choddy lake bed So don’t really want massive leads.

hooklink is 6/7 inches - gone up to 12 without any difference. If anything I got more of these bleeps the longer the hooklink.

fishing wafters. Size 6 hooks. Semi slack as the bites don’t seem to be forthcoming on tight lines.

how would you go about finding out if these small run type bleeps are bites? One train of thought was to increase the hook size and decrease the hooklink to maybe four inches?

bare in mind the water is quite pressured, three acres - the favoured swims are always taken, busy during the weekday/weekend - or would you just advise sticking to the same thing?

[yonny]

If you're struggling with running rigs first thing I'd do is up the lead size and semi-fix it buddy.

[salokcinnodrog]

My thoughts, a running lead works best with a totally slack line, and doesn't necessarily need a long hooklink as the line is free running through the run ring. I use 3oz on running leads, not saying that is the only weight to use, but sometimes you may find heavier is needed. If the bottom is a bit mucky, try adding a lead link, that will stop the lead sinking into it and dragging the hook and bait into it. 

The bleeps could be signs you are getting done, it may be worth playing (increasing) the hair length.

 

I found on a water I used to fish with running leads, I was having silver fish hitting the line between the bottom and where it entered the water, a series of bleeps, then nothing. A carp was quite unmistakeable, bleep, bleep, bleeeeeeeeeeeeeep non stop.

 

 

[Brutus]

Morning guys, Certainly getting the wheels churning with your responses.

This is where it gets a bit of a puzzle, the lake itself is very rich in features, under water snags, over hanging willows, about eight or so lilly beds - I just don't feel comfortable leaving everything mega slack - semi slack, yes - just not mega slack. Saying that, I could give it a go in the open water and see what happens. I have no leaders and keep everything as safe as possible so that should the worst happen, nothing is left tethered. so essentially I fish naked (rig - not myself). hooklink, swivel, buffer bead, lead, line. just to give you an idea of how I'm fishing.

As I say, lots of lines in the lake at the same time so the fish are pretty clued up, but strangely not spooky or cagey. You often see them cruising and in the margins, if they see you they disappear but don't bolt if that makes sense, no sense of panic, just very casually.

Anything bolt rig wise that I've tried or seen anyone else try has ever produced anything, odd beeps, a run... absolutely zip - that's not to say that its a useless idea, I've just never seen it happen on the lake with people who's rigs I've seen, so for me running or semi slack would be different to the norm and present a new scenario.

First things first - I'll try a longer hair (usual gap is 5-7mm from bend of hook. I'll extend that to about 1.5cm) and keep the set up the same on one rod. the other one I'll try a semi fixed with the same rig I used. When I'm next there I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks for the pointers guys, very much appreciated.

The beeps I'm getting are in quick succession like you get before a run but then they just stop.

Do you guys incorporate any tricks on your hooklink to tell if you've been done or do you just put it down to the fish getting lucky and crack on as you were?

[yonny]

1 hour ago, Brutus said:

Do you guys incorporate any tricks on your hooklink to tell if you've been done or do you just put it down to the fish getting lucky and crack on as you were?

Nah. Imo we're getting done all the time i.e. the rig is ejected multiple times prior to getting a take, so I make sure my rigs can reset themselves and fish as effectively as they did when they were first cast out.

[greekskii]

I use running rigs most of the time. One question, what alarms do you use? and how sensitive are they set? 

Small bleeps are likely small fishing hitting the line, you may be getting done but you'd expect a fish to move somewhere if you did, thus tightening the line as it throws the hook. Equally it could just be liners. If you want to stop them, then fish less sensitive and go to lead clips or helicopter set ups.

Running rigs are sensitive set ups, so the little bleeps are part of it. I fish them totally slack and have had 1 inch fry hit my line and give me a 2 or 3 bleeps, but I had my delks set super sensitive at the time. Unless you know for sure you're being done and the bleeps are a result of carp not being hooked, I'd look at the numerous other options first. Rule them out and you'll be able to tweak your set up to suit.

[Brutus]

43 minutes ago, yonny said:

Nah. Imo we're getting done all the time i.e. the rig is ejected multiple times prior to getting a take, so I make sure my rigs can reset themselves and fish as effectively as they did when they were first cast out.

Funny enough, I think the exact same thing - to the point where we actually get a take is as being as low as one in 10/20 times the rig is picked up. Not due to being solely on guard, but also curiosity, accidentally etc.

Thanks once again for the food for thought.

[Brutus]

3 minutes ago, greekskii said:

I use running rigs most of the time. One question, what alarms do you use? and how sensitive are they set? 

Small bleeps are likely small fishing hitting the line, you may be getting done but you'd expect a fish to move somewhere if you did, thus tightening the line as it throws the hook. Equally it could just be liners. If you want to stop them, then fish less sensitive and go to lead clips or helicopter set ups.

Running rigs are sensitive set ups, so the little bleeps are part of it. I fish them totally slack and have had 1 inch fry hit my line and give me a 2 or 3 bleeps, but I had my delks set super sensitive at the time. Unless you know for sure you're being done and the bleeps are a result of carp not being hooked, I'd look at the numerous other options first. Rule them out and you'll be able to tweak your set up to suit.

Prologic snz and set up as quite sensitive, small weight added to the bobbin - clipped in a line clip on the rod, pointed directly at the weight so zero angles - one could argue every trick to get as much sensitivity as possible.

I think I'll have a knock about with some ideas thrown about (longer hair/semi fixed) and see what happens. If I keep getting done, or think I'm getting done a lead clip arrangement may have to be utilized.

All part of the fun aint it lol.

[Ginger9991]

So i would be starting with a lead 2.5oz and above and going from there. One thing i would say, I fished a lake with slack lines, and i was getting a lot of bleeps through the course of the night, happening most nights i was there, Got annoyed, tightened up the line and it stopped......I put it down to silvers or maybe even carp running though the line close in. At this same lake i have actually landed a carp without hooking it. Somehow it had manged to get the line wraped around its bottom lip, somehow the fishes mouth wasnt damaged but i must have landed it with 60 yards of line to the lead still in the pond.

[The_Viking_Angler]

11 minutes ago, Ginger9991 said:

So i would be starting with a lead 2.5oz and above and going from there. One thing i would say, I fished a lake with slack lines, and i was getting a lot of bleeps through the course of the night, happening most nights i was there, Got annoyed, tightened up the line and it stopped......I put it down to silvers or maybe even carp running though the line close in. At this same lake i have actually landed a carp without hooking it. Somehow it had manged to get the line wraped around its bottom lip, somehow the fishes mouth wasnt damaged but i must have landed it with 60 yards of line to the lead still in the pond.

That is quite a scary tbh mate, Its a miracle that the mouth wasn't cut or damaged. Just goes to show that even when we think we are fishing 100% safe, there is always a element of risk involved. 

[Ginger9991]

36 minutes ago, The_Viking_Angler said:

That is quite a scary tbh mate, Its a miracle that the mouth wasn't cut or damaged. Just goes to show that even when we think we are fishing 100% safe, there is always a element of risk involved. 

Your not wrong mate. It was dark as well. I was so confused. I spent a good few minutes checking for trailing line/hooks as it can only be 1 in a million, fish was completely unmarked not a cut or even a mark.

[yonny]

3 minutes ago, Ginger9991 said:

I was so confused.

I can imagine lol

[760]

Leave the tag on and poke it back up into the lead clip/inline weight. If the tag is out when you bring your rig in, you have likely been done.

[smufter]

I never use anything else other than running rigs and light leads. 1oz normally.

"Semi slack" line. Quite a few snags in my lake so don't fish too slack, and I hate fishing locked up.

Never leave the rods.

[Brutus]

12 hours ago, 760 said:

Leave the tag on and poke it back up into the lead clip/inline weight. If the tag is out when you bring your rig in, you have likely been done.

That's what I was thinking when having a go again with a semi fixed set up. That or some tubing on the bend of the hook to see if the baits been rejected - but even then I'm not convinced that works, but he who dares etc.

3 hours ago, smufter said:

I never use anything else other than running rigs and light leads. 1oz normally.

"Semi slack" line. Quite a few snags in my lake so don't fish too slack, and I hate fishing locked up.

Never leave the rods.

Depends on the venue for me, but I do tend to prefer light leads, semi slack and running if I can. If not then semi fixed and inline. I know heavy leads have their fans and their pros/cons - to me I just like my finesse & simplicity on my rigs/terminal tackle - the less there is, the less to go wrong/see. That's not to say I'll never use them or trash them or more complicated rigs or setups - they obviously have a time and a place, which is when I'll have a go at using them. My usual snaggy, feature rich water - I think a bit more polish on my approach will pay dividends.

With heavy leads being now "en vogue" and popularized, you'll have everyone using them. Seasoned anglers who know what they're doing and using it for a specific reason reason (maximize bolt effect, distance casting, balancing on underwater slopes etc) & anglers who are still learning the sport and just going by what they read or see and not necessarily for a purpose. Anything different from the guy next to you or the norm could put you at an advantage, if it doesn't, simply change to something that does, not really lost anything, learned loads.

[smufter]

I fished next to a guy the other week using heavy leads, which was overkill as he was only casting a maximum of 30 yards.

He kept casting and re-casting to find his "spots" and was driving me mad with the constant splashes.

My little old 1oz lead was going out with hardly a noise or ripple.

 

[yonny]

2 minutes ago, smufter said:

I fished next to a guy the other week using heavy leads, which was overkill as he was only casting a maximum of 30 yards.

My biggest leads (5oz) I only use in the margin, under the tips. Weight is not necessarily just for casting imo bud.

[B.C.]

3 hours ago, Brutus said:

semi fixed set up.

This is where I'm probably feeling most comfortable, if I'm not using a heli rig.. You still have some resistance to help the hook stick, but the lead can move away from the fish on a take, initially, 

Not sure if you've read it yet @Brutus, but there is a rotary thread on lead set ups, very informative opening post from @greekskii and some good tips on the follow up posts..... I found it very useful for a few pointers. Worth a read if you haven't already. 🙂

[yonny]

 

[commonly]

Thanks for the link yonny. Good reading there. 

My water is a drop the lead rule, instant ban! 

So after a bit of experimenting, & due to the mountainous canadian weed. I am naked to a drop off fox in line, with a sinker wrapped in putty 2ft up the line. I use 4-4,5oz up to 100 yds. 4_5"combi rig with a large split shot where the braid is stripped off the fluro of Hydrolink, to set the hook. Pop up or snowman. I tend to get the hook bait 2-3" off the bottom, with a few freebies in stocking, which helps avoid tangles. 

I will play around with lengths & not necessarily drop the lead on other waters. 

I often get liners, but put that down to fish & movement of the weed. With this setup I definitely know when it's a take & have a 100% land rate & confidence in it. 

From the rotary, in my early days of fishing & carping I used to use a small 1/2 oz in line ball lead to devistating effect. Fond memories and stirs up the grey matter to uses nowadays. 

[Brutus]

Afternoon All,

Just to give you a little update - didn't try the lake I originally fished but did try another that's equally as pressured.

Running rigs, loads of beeps - shed loads.

One two beeps max, bobbin either moves an inch, stays stagnant, drops an inch. Or, two successive beeps with the bobbin rising then obviously a drop. too quick to hit unless your onto of the rods really.

Switched it over to inline, semi fixed. inline setup. 1.5oz inline.

Used the line tactic - indications fell by 75% still got the bleeps, reeled in - getting done. tag was out. Each and every time. but nothing to suggest that these were merely more than liners on my side. hindsight it's frustrating but long term there's something that obviously needs tuning - which will ultimately lead to reward in fish and or knowledge. Rigs were standard 6/8 size hooks, coated hooklink - nothing complicated, 5mm gap between bait and hook bend, hook point covered with pva tube of small pellet. nothing crazy but nothing complicated.

Agian, fishing semi slack.

Going again this weekend, going to try upping the lead size. 2 - 2.5oz. On inline.

One rod I'll stick to what has given me results, the running rig. Makes no sense taking away what has given me results. Just a slightly shorter hook link for me on that rod.

I'll update you after this weekend, for anyone that's interested.

 

[760]

I was mortified when I realized how many times I'd got done after an odd bleep, so many variables 

[Brutus]

Far too many, but that's in my mind what makes it fun. Getting the little percentages right.

Got down there but fished the other end of the lake which hasn't been where we've ever wet a line if I'm honest. Full of debris/silt - so a completely different beast to the firmer areas we were fishing.

Long story short: 

Running rig this time - two knocks, odd beeps here n there. balanced bait 1.

Inline fixed lead, received far more attention - did the old tag end trick, wasn't getting done despite the beeps. Did end up hooking into something that gave a very odd run, didn't land it but did have a 50p sized scale for my troubles. So obviously a foul hook or an unfortunate grab once the hook was free. balanced bait 2.

This actually told me loads - previously I've fished with both baits down there, had success on both but one stands out more by a mile. This was on the inline lead - I wanted to prove that these fish weren't as shy of the lead as i'd initially thought and that I need more effort into the rig, by that, presentation and operation of hook flipping - taking into account substrates.

Feels like i've gone full circle, but going to give helis or chods another try on 1.1/1.5 oz weights, get that presentation just right. All else fails, I know that running rigs produce the goods and are very hassle free.

 

Appreciate all the idea on here guys. thanks once again.

[Guest Dez Animaux]

I use running rigs on a very tough and pressured small and craggy syndi and do ok

It's very silty but I use an inline, considered the wrong setup in silt but I get no issues with a hooklink of 10 inches

I used to experiment with longer hooklinks 13, 17 inches even but they were very hi and miss and I don't think there's much point going far longer than 9, 10 inches

Use a soft braid hooklink, a very sharp hook indeed, and a reasonably heavy lead of 2.5 ounces. Very light leads don't seem to be as good, you need a bit of an anchor down there, don't ask me why but it just works better with minimum 2 ounces

Don't get into headache rigs just keep it simple, the hookpoint is the bit that matters with running rigs, must be really anal about it at all times, get a Jag kit..

Tight lines

 

[Brutus]

I'm actually quite fond of runners - as yet, I've not had any tangles, not one. I've under arm cast, cock handed cast, heavy and soft handed cast - never had an issue, Ever.

I also prefer it from an angling perspective, as I do light weights. As light a weight as I can get away with.

Funny you mention about hooks and running rigs - found that out the hard way, did a cheeky few hours last night. Had two decent bites in an hour on the running rig. landed el zippo - looked at my rig (german rig, size 6, 8 inches) the positioning of the bait stop had slipped and the swivel wasn't the most "free" when playing with it. Lesson learned.

I'll up the lead, give it a go, can't go wrong. I'll also pay more attention to my rigs as well. Cheers for the heads up.