Cherry Carp (ex solar)

[cyborx]

messing about on t' net i was amazed to come across this,

excerpt from Cherry's Q&A page.

when asked "why do you sell you terminal tackle at half the price of all the others"

this was the answer,,

That’s exactly our point. Why do others sell them for over a Fiver? It’s a known fact there are only a handful of quality hook makers in the world and as resellers we all source them from the same available Providers! We don’t sell ours cheap in comparison to the available margins and still make a healthy ‘business standard’ profit. This, alongside terminal tackle is where rip off BRITAIN stands rife in the industry. If you honestly think you are getting a cracking deal for ten small bits of metal for a fiver then think on. We appreciate brand loyalty, we also respect brand confidence, but at some stage or another common sense should enter the mind of the angler who in turn should start to challenge what seems right and what seems wrong…surely.?

The prices we charge for our terminal tackle and hooks etc is the show stopper for the trolls. When challenged “your bait is cheap so it must be [censored]” we refer them to the quality of our hooks or the suppleness of our tungsten tubing and on and on and on….That’s when the trolls fade and die. We don’t sell cheap bait and we don’t sell cheap terminal tackle…..it’s just priced correctly!

If people are prepared to give away their hard earned cash in the belief that what they are using is superior then hey, what can we do? We can’t educate everyone and where we do not advertise in the publication world and carp comics it’s understandable the brain washing exists. Sad, but true!

link here

comments??

 

[ianain]

Not knocking their stuff, but if you don't supply to shops, you can sell at half the price; their pellets aren't much cheaper though if at all.

But without having a fiddle with the product, you are buying blind or following like sheep. I might have a look when I run out of things they do, but I can't find carriage charges and that annoys me when I have to sign up to find out something that should be upfront; I'm sure that we've got regulations which state clear pricing policies? (if not we should have, cos it rattles my sensibilities :humpf:)

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, ianain said:

Not knocking their stuff, but if you don't supply to shops, you can sell at half the price; their pellets aren't much cheaper though if at all.

But without having a fiddle with the product, you are buying blind or following like sheep. I might have a look when I run out of things they do, but I can't find carriage charges and that annoys me when I have to sign up to find out something that should be upfront; I'm sure that we've got regulations which state clear pricing policies? (if not we should have, cos it rattles my sensibilities :humpf:)

A large number of hook shapes come from trout or salmon fishing, the hooks are often identical patterns, same gauge, but market them as carp, and price increases.

 

Then you have wholesale or dealer price, and genuine retail mark-up, however some tackle brands do over charge on the price they sell to tackle shop at.

Swivels are a major case in point, and tackle brands want you to use their swivels, after all, only a Korda swivel fits a Korda lead clip. A size 8 swivel is a size 8 swivel, although some genuine manufacturers do have slightly different barrel sizes. Yet the price for a Korda swivel is carp taxed, compared to a size 8 Mustad, Leeda or heaven forbid Breakaway Tackle swivel. All are probably manufactured at Mustad, the latter brands are around the same retail price, yet Korda charge 5 times the price...

 

Fishing line, I recently made the point on Asso thread, there are I think only 6 line factories in the world, yet prices for monofilament line range from £8.99 for a bulk spool, to £20, on essentially what is the same product that costs pennies to make. Tackle brands stick silly prices on what they sell you. It probably actually costs more for the plastic spool and packing than the line on the plastic spool❗️😏

 

 

[greekskii]

People pay for the convenience of it. I could spend half an hour looking for cheap Matt finish swivels that are actually strong for a cheap price. In bulk probably too. Or I can buy some carp taxed ones within a minute of getting on the internet. 

However I can find non Matt ones within minutes with 100 costing a few quid. I use them for my marker floats and randomly fixing various things. Wouldn't use them for actual fishing as I don't have a clue if they'll cope. 

[salokcinnodrog]

51 minutes ago, greekskii said:

People pay for the convenience of it. I could spend half an hour looking for cheap Matt finish swivels that are actually strong for a cheap price. In bulk probably too. Or I can buy some carp taxed ones within a minute of getting on the internet. 

However I can find non Matt ones within minutes with 100 costing a few quid. I use them for my marker floats and randomly fixing various things. Wouldn't use them for actual fishing as I don't have a clue if they'll cope. 

Thing is Mate, Leeda, Mustad have the breaking strain printed on the packing, yet carp brands don't. I have been using 'shiny' swivels for years, long before carp fishing was big business. Most of the swivel is often covered in lead clip, buffer bead, bullet bead or lead.

 

[B.C.]

At least Cherry are being honest in this instance. They are saying what we've all been saying and thinking for years. I honestly don't mind paying extra for anything that is 90% manufactured in this country by British workers. But if tackle companies are just acting as middle men for Asian manufactured products, but still selling at the same prices as if they've actually created and made something themselves, eg 300 or 400% mark up. Then I'll happily spend half an hour to source the exact same product and cut out the middle man, if possible.....

Imagine being sponsored.... You can see the look of distain on most of their faces in promo vids, when they are obligated to plug a 10p piece for a fiver...... embarrassing.  Must really suck the self respect out of a man.

 

 

 

[ianain]

Not sure if it's still the case, but, Drennan own(ed) Kamasan (ergo ESP hooks as well); whilst they're not manufactured here, they are British owned?

Having said that, much of the spiel surrounding the quality of hooks has been (and probably still is) the inferred Japanese craftsmanship.

Not sure if Partridge still make hooks here, I'm sure they were forced (due to price) to get them made overseas.

[yonny]

Cherry Carp are not ex- Solar, they are ex- Solar-Carp (a different entity to Solar). This is the company that used the Solar name to sell cheap bait rolled in Europe and shipped to the UK where it was crumbling to bits when it got to the customer (Martin Locke of Solar hadn't been prepared to do this which is why SolarCarp was created as separate entity as personnel split from Solar). When questioned the various members of the SolarCarp team gave conflicting information as to the content - some said it contained no preservatives, other said it did..... who knows what was in it......

There was also a massive hoo-har about the Directors trying to stitch up Lockey if I remember rightly but all trace of this has been removed from the net for legal reasons I assume.....

So it makes me chuckle when they talk other firms about ripping anglers off.

I wouldn't buy anything from them.

[cyborx]

14 minutes ago, yonny said:

Cherry Carp are not ex- Solar, they are ex- Solar-Carp (a different entity to Solar). This is the company that used the Solar name to sell cheap bait rolled in Europe and shipped to the UK where it was crumbling to bits when it got to the customer (Martin Locke of Solar hadn't been prepared to do this which is why SolarCarp was created as separate entity as personnel split from Solar). When questioned the various members of the SolarCarp team gave conflicting information as to the content - some said it contained no preservatives, other said it did..... who knows what was in it......

There was also a massive hoo-har about the Directors trying to stitch up Lockey if I remember rightly but all trace of this has been removed from the net for legal reasons I assume.....

So it makes me chuckle when they talk other firms about ripping anglers off.

I wouldn't buy anything from them.

not a fan then Yonny? fully aware of the solar connection buddy, been following them info wise for 3 or so years now, but it is true that the name solar-carp was a derivative from the solar tackle brand, i find it strange that the bait voodoo is popping up again as unlike a hell of a lot of brands out their that charge massively for their baits Cherry carp not only list all ingredients for every boilie or pellet but explain why and how they included them.

not trying to debunk any myths here, just trying to get an honest review from any one who may of used them. if i wanted trade gossip that is easy enough to find but honest answers are not

just needs to be said tho, their company ethos is refreshing when compared with any of the larger rivals and as they dont seem to be in it to make a massive profit it does make you wonder about the bad boilie stories, why would they bother?

they even state that the day their pricing structure is no longer required then that is the day that the company will fade into obscurity, that will be the day that the others stop the 300pc carp tax bracket,,,,,,ha ha that 'L' be the day

as far as the ripping off comment, CS hooks £2.50 per 10 pack, Gardener mugga £4.50 per 10 pack, #8 swivels £4.99 per 30, Korda average £4.00 per 10, boilies £6.50 per Kilo, Nash average £10.00 and that average includes the budget range.

looks like a rip off to me, tell me if i am wrong??

 

[cyborx]

16 hours ago, greekskii said:

People pay for the convenience of it. I could spend half an hour looking for cheap Matt finish swivels that are actually strong for a cheap price. In bulk probably too. Or I can buy some carp taxed ones within a minute of getting on the internet. 

However I can find non Matt ones within minutes with 100 costing a few quid. I use them for my marker floats and randomly fixing various things. Wouldn't use them for actual fishing as I don't have a clue if they'll cope. 

Any good Vik?

[cyborx]

18 hours ago, ianain said:

Not knocking their stuff, but if you don't supply to shops, you can sell at half the price; their pellets aren't much cheaper though if at all.

But without having a fiddle with the product, you are buying blind or following like sheep. I might have a look when I run out of things they do, but I can't find carriage charges and that annoys me when I have to sign up to find out something that should be upfront; I'm sure that we've got regulations which state clear pricing policies? (if not we should have, cos it rattles my sensibilities :humpf:)

dont need to sign up buddy, just bang anything in your basket and check total,, comes up at £1.99 uk postage so thats probably £5.00 to lala land

Edited March 26, 2018 by cyborx

[yonny]

50 minutes ago, cyborx said:

as far as the ripping off comment, CS hooks £2.50 per 10 pack, Gardener mugga £4.50 per 10 pack, #8 swivels £4.99 per 30, Korda average £4.00 per 10, boilies £6.50 per Kilo, Nash average £10.00 and that average includes the budget range.

looks like a rip off to me, tell me if i am wrong??

I certainly wont say that other firms don't rip customers off buddy - let's face it the whole carp game is one big rip-off!!!!

[greekskii]

43 minutes ago, cyborx said:

Any good Vik?

tbh mate I have like 9million swivels already, not on the look out. Bank tackle does the job for me now at a good price. plus you can order bulk. 

Like salokcinnodrog said before, I use fox drop off kits, that only fit fox swivels, as they use size 7 for all of their stuff, including leads. I dont buy their leads, I just manipulate the swivel so it fits how I want it to. These big brands try not to be universal to force you to buy their bits and bobs, nothing a set of pliers wont do though.

[sharpy86]

Ianain has made a massive point though - if you sell direct to the customer, there is no middleman (Tackleshop) that also wants a cut of the profits - and therefore prices can be obviously cheaper.

Boilies are sold in 5kg bags - but with an £8 delivery charge - which means they work out at £8 per kilo.

Smaller companies with less overheads - advertising, staff, office space, website etc etc.

Personally I like going into a shop, touching what I’m going to buy.

[B.C.]

1 hour ago, yonny said:

Cherry Carp are not ex- Solar, they are ex- Solar-Carp (a different entity to Solar). This is the company that used the Solar name to sell cheap bait rolled in Europe and shipped to the UK where it was crumbling to bits when it got to the customer (Martin Locke of Solar hadn't been prepared to do this which is why SolarCarp was created as separate entity as personnel split from Solar). When questioned the various members of the SolarCarp team gave conflicting information as to the content - some said it contained no preservatives, other said it did..... who knows what was in it......

There was also a massive hoo-har about the Directors trying to stitch up Lockey if I remember rightly but all trace of this has been removed from the net for legal reasons I assume.....

So it makes me chuckle when they talk other firms about ripping anglers off.

I wouldn't buy anything from them.

I wouldn't touch their bait and some of their comments on the use of salt, such as "Carp can't get enough of it" , are not the best thing to put in print either imo. 

I'd agree with what was said in the OP about mark ups on most terminal tackle being too high. But I suppose that, if you are careful with your angling, you won't lose much end tackle anyway. So paying the extra for something you trust in, isn't such a big deal......  I just get annoyed, when inferior tackle is sold at quality prices from some corners.

 

 

 

 

[B.C.]

14 minutes ago, sharpy86 said:

there is no middleman (Tackleshop)

It's the tackle firms that are the middle men in most cases. There would be more room to play with their mark up, then the Tackle shop's mark up imo.

 

19 minutes ago, sharpy86 said:

Personally I like going into a shop, touching what I’m going to buy.

Totally agree, always best to see something in the flesh before a purchase. If you've got a decent local, they will often give you some feed back too, on what other customers have said about certain items. The opening times of my local don't make it easy to fit too many visits in, but I absolutely love browsing in there. Probably take for granted that he will always be there (been a tackle shop on that site or the building next door since before I was born).... He retires in a year or two and has been able to run the place as almost a second interest for some time. A real aladdins cave of old and new bits. Not sure, these days, if it could be run as someone's sole business interest... If it does eventually close as a tackle shop, I'll definitely be having a good rummage about beforehand.

[salokcinnodrog]

14 hours ago, B.C. said:

At least Cherry are being honest in this instance. They are saying what we've all been saying and thinking for years. I honestly don't mind paying extra for anything that is 90% manufactured in this country by British workers. But if tackle companies are just acting as middle men for Asian manufactured products, but still selling at the same prices as if they've actually created and made something themselves, eg 300 or 400% mark up. Then I'll happily spend half an hour to source the exact same product and cut out the middle man, if possible.....

Imagine being sponsored.... You can see the look of distain on most of their faces in promo vids, when they are obligated to plug a 10p piece for a fiver...... embarrassing.  Must really suck the self respect out of a man.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, sharpy86 said:

Ianain has made a massive point though - if you sell direct to the customer, there is no middleman (Tackleshop) that also wants a cut of the profits - and therefore prices can be obviously cheaper.

Boilies are sold in 5kg bags - but with an £8 delivery charge - which means they work out at £8 per kilo.

Smaller companies with less overheads - advertising, staff, office space, website etc etc.

Personally I like going into a shop, touching what I’m going to buy.

I like going into a tackle shop as well, it is almost an adventure in itself, even if I do spend more than I need.

 

OK, I lead a sheltered life😖😅

 

The tackle brand is the 2nd middle man; I'm sure a number of tackle firms quite literally went to alibaba, and bought up massive amounts of tackle at cheap prices! As the tackle brands have no manufacturing of most items (there are a few exceptions), they buy and import from various factories via companies like alibaba. Chinese companies will often reverse engineer, then sell the design to someone else or copy and manufacture and sell.

That from a number of companies, includes bedchairs, bivvies, as well as the smaller bits, although a few do own possible 'slave trade' factories in Far Eastern countries. By slave trade I mean because its Far East, wages are lower and i'm sure conditions not as good as here. 

I'm sure Drennan is a most definite exception to the hook factory rule, they do own their own factory, bought from Kamasan, keeping the Kamasan name alive in the process. Kamasan for years have been a big player in trout fishing hooks, so Drennan make it on both sides! I do not know Drennan own their other manufacturing processes factory, but they have their own supervisors in their factory. 

 

I keep harping back to UK made, a strange point was made by of all people this week, Donald Trump, and his 'banning' Chinese steel imports. The Chinese government want money, from exports, but they import very few goods themselves, import tariffs are high. By Trump equalising tariffs into USA, he could well be putting money back into USA production. Britain has been needing to do the same for years. How many British companies make in UK?

 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

I looked up Kamasan on the internet, and I can't find a Kamasan website, but I did find a Kamasan hook range site. Almost every hook pattern in the trout range has been adapted into carp fishing.

 

Years and years ago, Andy Little in the Anglers Mail Guide to Carp fishing did some rig pictures, and in one he recommended a particular trout pattern with a certain setup.

For how many years were we using B175's? One of my favourite hooks for pop-ups, and when it was legal, for Bent hook rigs. It may actually be that I preferred size 8 and 10's that unlike many others who used larger hooks, I didn't get mouth damage on fish I landed with bhr's.

 

The pic below, spot the Nash patterns, the Gardner, Korda, the Drennan or whichever

[buzzbomb]

That B-100 Grub is a ringer for my go-to carp hook: Tiemco 2457 large pupa hook in #6.

[smufter]

5 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

That B-100 Grub is a ringer for my go-to carp hook: Tiemco 2457 large pupa hook in #6.

B-110 for me Geezer