Stop the Madness!!

[buzzbomb]

There is probably a lot of attention being given to this research by biologists in the US looking for a solution to the Asian Carp infestation of the Missouri River. If they decide to unleash the virus there it could wipe out carp fishing in the whole watershed. They want to keep Asian Carp from taking hold in the Great Lakes so if they use it in the Missouri River it could potentially kill every carp in connected waterways, including the St Lawrence. That's a lot of carp. The Great Lakes hold over %20 of the world's fresh water and I'd worry about any virus going in, versus danger from the Asian Carp (which also could potentially render a body of water sterile).

[newmarket]

I don't mind , or care for that matter , what people's views are on any topic .

It's a free (within reason) forum for people to air their opinions full stop.

 

I object to being brought into it purely because it was Jon's post that Philip took a dislike to .

It probably would have been the same were it 'liking' a post of yours or several other forum members i could mention but won't .

 

Other forum members would have 'got away with it'.

It was uncalled for and I'm disappointed though not in the least surprised that the post is still there , unedited . Despite my actually physically requested it be.

[chillfactor]

Phil, nice to see you disassociate yourself from the "convict jibe"

this "jibe" was actually from a comment that a true Australian made to me while referring to his homeland, the reference also included a pictorial description of life for the greater portion of the populace.

"those yabbies that run the country have put up a metaphorical wall around Australia and made it like a prison environment, you can only eat what they let you produce or what is imported under the scrutiny of the government and their lackeys.

this goes for anything you use, tools vehicles and even construction materials.

you cant even just grab something off an international site like amazon or ebay without it being put under the scrutiny of the dept of immigration and border protection, it makes us feel like the convicts that most of us are descended from".

a quote from an Australian ex pat in this country who just wanted to have a free choice on how he lived his life, sound like convicts to me

 

Can I point out why I said this post is Tosh.

Firstly I worked in the construction industry in Australia & I can tell you for a fact that they have exactly the same tools available to them as we do over here , they actually seemed to get them before us as I didn't see some of the tools I was using over there years later back in the uk but you can definitely get all of the major brands over there .

 

Cars, nearly all the major brands of car are available over there , in fact I would say they have a more diverse car selection over there because of there love of v8 motors .

 

Materials were second to none & i was constantly surprised how far behind we were in those regards .

 

So to say that Australia is some sort of prison is so far from reality & you would know this if you had actually been there ! & not just second hand knowledge.

You guys believe what you like but I have actually worked out there .

 

Apologies newmarket shouldn't of brought you into the debate , but the post was so factually incorrect.

 

Oh & as for the buying stuff off the Internet etc cyborx your opening gambit was all about how they have ruined the country with lack of control of what comes in .... so I am surprised your against tighter controls .

 

I will leave you to it guys

[newmarket]

Can I point out why I said this post is Tosh.

Firstly I worked in the construction industry in Australia & I can tell you for a fact that they have exactly the same tools available to them as we do over here , they actually seemed to get them before us as I didn't see some of the tools I was using over there years later back in the uk but you can definitely get all of the major brands over there .

 

Cars, nearly all the major brands of car are available over there , in fact I would say they have a more diverse car selection over there because of there love of v8 motors .

 

Materials were second to none & i was constantly surprised how far behind we were in those regards .

 

So to say that Australia is some sort of prison is so far from reality & you would know this if you had actually been there ! & not just second hand knowledge.

You guys believe what you like but I have actually worked out there .

 

Apologies newmarket shouldn't of brought you into the debate , but the post was so factually incorrect.

 

Oh & as for the buying stuff off the Internet etc cyborx your opening gambit was all about how they have ruined the country with lack of control of what comes in .... so I am surprised your against tighter controls .

 

I will leave you to it guys

Apology accepted sir

[androoooo]

Can I point out why I said this post is Tosh.

Firstly I worked in the construction industry in Australia & I can tell you for a fact that they have exactly the same tools available to them as we do over here , they actually seemed to get them before us as I didn't see some of the tools I was using over there years later back in the uk but you can definitely get all of the major brands over there .

 

Cars, nearly all the major brands of car are available over there , in fact I would say they have a more diverse car selection over there because of there love of v8 motors .

 

Materials were second to none & i was constantly surprised how far behind we were in those regards .

 

So to say that Australia is some sort of prison is so far from reality & you would know this if you had actually been there ! & not just second hand knowledge.

You guys believe what you like but I have actually worked out there .

 

Apologies newmarket shouldn't of brought you into the debate , but the post was so factually incorrect.

 

Oh & as for the buying stuff off the Internet etc cyborx your opening gambit was all about how they have ruined the country with lack of control of what comes in .... so I am surprised your against tighter controls .

 

I will leave you to it guys

For a prison, 4 cities that rank in the top 10 best cities in the world to live in, isn't bad.

 

I've travelled there twice and spent a year there as well. It's a gorgeous place and somewhere I'd happily move to. A large number of my friends have moved out there and they all love it and haven't regretted the choices they've made.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[androoooo]

 

 

For a prison, 4 cities that rank in the top 10 best cities in the world to live in, isn't bad.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/pictures/9477990/The-worlds-10-best-cities-to-live-in.html?image=9

 

I've travelled there twice and spent a year there as well. It's a gorgeous place and somewhere I'd happily move to. A large number of my friends have moved out there and they all love it and haven't regretted the choices they've made.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[BigDog23]

Hey Cyborx, 

 

sorry it took me a while to get back to you. I don't have any data on water temps but this area at the moment just comeing into the middle of winter in the next 3 weeks or so we're having maximums daily temps around 15 degrees celsius and minimum around 5. At the coldest here it'll be 0 - 12. I'm guessing from what you've said on temps the virus woud be best released in late summer/autumn. march - April would probably work well in this area.

bigdog, i think that your post is a good one, it certainly puts your perspective on the for or against argument from someone on the ground.

do you have any idea what the ambient water temp is in the murray darling basin? my reason for asking this is the fact that if the water temps reach as high as they did in 2005-2006 there may be a problem albiet one that should have been considered by whoever researched using the KHV as a mass culling method and that is that the effects of the virus are nulled in temperatures around 24-30 deg F (75-80C).

it would be interesting to know what the temps are this year.

[BigDog23]

Sadly i have to agree with you on the mismanagement of the rivers. Cotton growing plays a big part in this. That said Carp are a factor in the porr state of the rivers and native fish populations. Restoring health to our rivers of course needs a multifaceted approach. i think this virus is a tool that can provide a large benefit and while carp are by no means the sole reason for muddy waters i do believe they contribute.  As for the comparisons to clear waters in other areas i'm really not sure, They're all very different ecological environments. I think the relief for our native species would be great, it may allow us to re-establish populations of tandanus tandanus catfish in areas they are now extinct, out competed by Carp. 

 

 

 

I

BigDog23 you seem to be a victim of the dribble which has been fed to the australian public for decades regarding the impact of carp.

Carp are easy to blame for the sad state of australian freshwater species.

 

The truth is that decades of mismanagement of waterways has resulted in what you see now. Carp are an adaptive species which can easily survive the poor conditions created by erosion, pollution and deliberate alteration of natural flows, and that is why they have flourished. They have nothing to do with muddy water, or how do you explain the crystal clear lakes in Europe and other places like south africa and america which are full of carp?

 

[Taurine]

Hi Folks a brief thought on this.  The virus we are all talking about was first found in fish farms in Israel. It didn't just "happen". It arose as a result of a change in an old virus that affects other fish species; there are related viruses in channel catfish etc.  What is really interesting is that sensitive techniques such as one called PCR, can pick it up in a variety of organisms such as molluscs etc so the virus can lurk in other species and, given it has become a carp-killer as a result of a recent minor change in an old virus, it is probable it will change again.  The scary thing is that reasonable prospect of change means all Australian native fish are potentially at risk if (read WHEN)  the virus changes again.  It will be a very "brave" (to use the best "yes Prime Minister" parlance )politician, to introduce a virus that could, in its next guise, mutate again and kill our native fish species.  The one bit of good news is that warmer water is not something the virus likes so not going to be too effective at least in Qld etc and wild strains of carp and those cross bred with goldfish are fairly resistant, so the shock-jock view that this will be the answer to the so-called carp problem is not particularly well-found. 

As most here will know the populist view is that carp are causes of all manner of environmental degradation, but the reality is that  carp are hardy and can cope with slow flowing, poorly oxygenated waters whereas native fish species generally do not thrive...so perhaps a little thought needed on why places such as the Murray now lack historical flows that keep gravel beds clean etc and so lack spawning grounds for natives but provide good conditions for carp, might be in order.  I think most here will agree that increased carp numbers are predominantly as a consequence of human-generated environmental degradation, and not the primary cause of the degradation.  Curiously I have not managed to find a single scientific paper that demonstrates (rather than asserts with a lot of arm waving) that carp are causal of degradation, despite a very careful search of the research literature (and yes I am a scientist with degrees in zoology etc so am aware of this literature).

 

So good luck with the petition.  But I do think that reminding all our pollies that if they endorse this they will add their names to the list of humiliation of those who endorse what may turn out to be the introduction of a virus that could turn on our native species, especially when it next mutates, and turns on the stressed (and thus vulnerable) native species in our waterways.  Keep up the good work and lets hope the virus does not end up on our shores!

[newmarket]

Very good post mate , the Aussie government ? I shake my head at them .....

 

I take it they have been furnished with all this information but are choosing to ignore ?

[buzzbomb]

 I take it they have been furnished with all this information but are choosing to ignore ?

 

 

nsiders are expecting Commonwealth approval for the release in 2018, with implementation shortly afterwards. Submissions are now being invited to a NSW enquiry into feral animal control, including carp.

they aren't doing it yet

 

http://theconversation.com/should-we-release-the-deadly-carp-virus-into-our-rivers-and-water-supplies-57982

[ianain]

Is there any update on this?

Are they going ahead?

Have they found another way?

[Guest Swamptrout]

20 hours ago, ianain said:

Is there any update on this?

Are they going ahead?

Have they found another way?

In my opinion It will go ahead, at this stage I don't think anyone knows when. I believe more research is needed and I'm still not convinced it will not harm other wildlife. In some waterways Carp are in plague  proportion  and something has to be done soon. To be honest I don't know what the solution is.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Swamptrout

[phir]

Serious concerns have been raised about the threat to natives and water supply  which will result from thousands of tonnes of rotting fish. Picking it all up before it results in disaster is a fantasy. This will be an ecological disaster if it goes ahead, possibly the biggest in Australian history.

It's one thing introducing a virus into rabbits where they can rot away and be scavenged on land. It's quite another doing it to fish where they rot in inaccessible waterways on which the community and native wildlife depends. Oxygen levels will fall rapidly killing many species and resulting in stagnant hazardous waterways.

It's now a politicized issue but scientists are becoming increasingly concerned.  Not sure if any politicians will want to be connected to this scheme in case it results in said disaster, but then, we are talking about politicians here.

 

[Guest Swamptrout]

I think you hit it on the head who is going to clean up  the dead carp 

[phir]

Further to this discussion see the below for concerns raised by scientists from the School of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia, about the proposed release of KHV in Australia.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313875413_Biocontrol_of_common_carp_in_Australia_poses_risks_to_biosecurity

[Guest Swamptrout]

I'm a true blue Aussie my ancestors were convicts so what doesn't bother me. What does is people from the UK telling us what to do with Carp, Rabbits and Foxes when they were the ones that introduced them. Now back to my reply something has to be done to eradicate carp from our waterways, they are in plague proportion, but I believe more research is needed before they release this virus.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Swamptrout

[Guest Swamptrout]

I don't have any problems, actually I have a few pommy friends YES THAT'S HOW THEY REFER TO THEM SELVES. 1 CALLS HIMSELF A 10 QUID IMPORT.  I just get my back up when others rubbish Australia. Hope this sorts out our differences

 I feel sorry for you fisho' s over there having to pay to fish. At present the Victorian Government are heavily stocking rivers, lakes etc. All financed by your fishing licence fees which you need to fish inland and saltwater cost is about $30. Free if you are a senior or on a pension, What I think a lot of the trouble about these carp culls you don't se or hear the true story. I don't get around as much as I did due to health issues and I have seen , literally thousands of carp gasping for air because of the droughts drying up  waterways. We could debate this for a week and get nowhere. In the last couple of years I have read different reports on this virus and everyone has a different opinion so you may be receiving some of this rubbish. These days I can only fish where there is easy access. I do catch a few carp and on light gear they put up a great fight. I abide by our laws and despatch them in a humane way. As for the introduction of this virus, by what I'm reading it is still a long way off

[woodvaleredfinfan]

Barnaby Joyce is an absolute moron in most things he is involved in!

[woodvaleredfinfan]

As for feeling precious or mentioning convicts lol

No one here in Aus cares

I'm from Stafford in the Midlands

I have had my fair share of being called Pommy C, Pommy B, Pommy F, It peed me off in the very beginning but I quickly learned it means nothing in all reality

If you react or get all politically correct over here your screwed lol

I've been here in Western Australia 8 years and really miss freshwater fishing but I now know of a Perch fishing location 4 hrs drive from here and a location for catching some freshwater carp species here

As for releasing viruses into waterways that is stupid being polite.