carpinthenet Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 recently I've been fishing a lake that is just covered in really soft silt. I've looked at my 2 different set ups (lead clip, inline lead) in the margins and a lot of the time the hook link sits up because the lead sinks into the silt, how do i stop this? or is there another set up that works over the silt? i heard that helicopter rigs work best? thanks in advance joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Soft braid hooklink, longer than normal (Upto 300mm depending on the depth of the silt), with a critically balanced hookbait. Hinged rig with a long soft braid section and and a short (Depending on the depth of the silt) hinged stiff section with a pop up. Chod rig with the bottom stop bead 300mm ish (Depending on the depth of the silt) from the lead. Three ways I'd initially contemplate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpinthenet Posted May 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 by soft braid do you mean uncoated?? i would have fished a chod rig but everyone uses that so i thought i would go with a multi rig, seems to have payed off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 by soft braid do you mean uncoated??... I do indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Or try a lead link, basically a paternoster set-up where the lead is going to sink into the silt, but the hooklink with a light balanced bait is going to sit up. You can fish this with your choice of hooklink, mono, fluoro, braid, coated or uncoated, whichever you prefer. I would recommend a bottom bait that almost floats, I.e drilled out and foamed up in the hole, or even a wafter that only just sinks. The same lead set up works very well in weed Mono or Fluorocarbon is probably the best material for the hooklink? You may want to play around with the hooklink and lead link length to get it right for your water. Also, it may be that the carp feed in the silt, not on it, you may need to find a way to get the hookbait at the level they feed at... Oh, and a quick edit, you may find a simple run ring works as well, and you wouldn't need to use the stop knot shown as per Del Ritchies original pic. Edited May 4, 2015 by salokcinnodrog carpinthenet and dalthegooner 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Or try a lead link, basically a paternoster set-up where the lead is going to sink into the silt, but the hooklink with a light balanced bait is going to sit up. You can fish this with your choice of hooklink, mono, fluoro, braid, coated or uncoated, whichever you prefer. I would recommend a bottom bait that almost floats, I.e drilled out and foamed up in the hole, or even a wafter that only just sinks. The same lead set up works very well in weed You may want to play around with the hooklink and lead link length to get it right for your water. Also, it may be that the carp feed in the silt, not on it, you may need to find a way to get the hookbait at the level they feed at... I've never fished the paternoster, but I think it is a set up that would work in this situation. The only thing that I would question in the posted pic is the dacron stop knot. Would that not stop the lead from coming off in the event of the line snapping above this knot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Would an Essex rig with a very light lead , say 1/2 an ounce , and a long soft ghost hooklink work here fellas ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I've never fished the paternoster, but I think it is a set up that would work in this situation. The only thing that I would question in the posted pic is the dacron stop knot. Would that not stop the lead from coming off in the event of the line snapping above this knot? Dacron does slip after getting wet, but I share your concern, hence my edit. Most braided material stop knots do in fact slip, whether it is the casting or getting wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 add a bit of foam to the hook and use a flat pear and I think it would. Naturally Glad you gave a positive reply , dont often hear of people using Fluorocarbon in silt or at least i dont People tend to recommend soft braid but i'm also thinking rig camouflage issues . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseman Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hi Joe. I've fished very old silty waters and there are several things that you can do to help yourself. Providing distance is not an issue, go with as light a lead as you can. Put a 5/6 bait stringer around the lead in a necklace, this will slow the lead down (On one very silty area I used to put a polo type cat biscuit in between each bait for even more effect) a huge amount when it hits the surface. Fish your hooklink in a PVA bag of whatever you like plus a foam nugget or two, purely for the same reason, this will really slow down the descent of the end tackle to the lakebed. I've never had a problem with inlines, and just tend to extend the hooklink (Always really soft braid) length to suit. If you are worried about the hooklink sitting up unnaturally because the lead has buried, then you need to do more to prevent that happening as per the above. One thing you can do is make a rig with soft braid at the lead end and a section of leadcore (Or alternative) at the hook end, this WILL NOT sit up off the bottom, try it for yourself. Last thing, try not to worry about it, so long as you are not fishing into Black silt that smells strongly of decay, the fish will be happy to bury their heads up to the gill covers. Think bloodworm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I disagree about totally avoiding the smelly black silt areas Moose . Firstly it is of my opinion that these areas are areas that merely havent YET been harvested by the Carp and therefore COULD possibly be very productive . Many of my Captures have had smelly black lips ? Also , apparently silt varies in colour depending on whereabouts in the country you are based. Indeed lots of Silt accumulating in gravel pit lakes in the essex area are a yellowy/orange almost red silt wheras in other areas Silt can be grey or even brownish . Indeed the source that i read that , cant recall where sorry , even questions why tackle companies insist on producing Silty BLACK end tackle . Just my tuppenceworth mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpinthenet Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 hi guys, thanks for all your responses, will all be taken into consideration. Would an Essex rig with a very light lead , say 1/2 an ounce , and a long soft ghost hooklink work here fellas ? never heard of a essex rig?? Hi Joe. I've fished very old silty waters and there are several things that you can do to help yourself. Providing distance is not an issue, go with as light a lead as you can. Put a 5/6 bait stringer around the lead in a necklace, this will slow the lead down (On one very silty area I used to put a polo type cat biscuit in between each bait for even more effect) a huge amount when it hits the surface. Fish your hooklink in a PVA bag of whatever you like plus a foam nugget or two, purely for the same reason, this will really slow down the descent of the end tackle to the lakebed. I've never had a problem with inlines, and just tend to extend the hooklink (Always really soft braid) length to suit. If you are worried about the hooklink sitting up unnaturally because the lead has buried, then you need to do more to prevent that happening as per the above. One thing you can do is make a rig with soft braid at the lead end and a section of leadcore (Or alternative) at the hook end, this WILL NOT sit up off the bottom, try it for yourself. Last thing, try not to worry about it, so long as you are not fishing into Black silt that smells strongly of decay, the fish will be happy to bury their heads up to the gill covers. Think bloodworm. At this lake i am mainly fishing quite far out but one of my rods is in the margin so thanks for that, will diffinatly try the stringer. The silt is a very light brown colour, so that should be alright. Am think about putting foam round my hook but always have a stringer so i don't think that would work. once again thanks for all your reply's joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nealjt Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 smelly black lips ha ha ha, I'm such a child.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 ha ha ha, I'm such a child.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 mr Godfather where you bin, disposing of Ron Thompsons mortal remains again, Essex rig tell him he is dying to know, not literally of course Don Tim. Wikipaedia states: Essex Rig - dead simple running lead set up with appropriate hooklength . Suitable for all types of Anglers who prefer to know when their hookbait is in a Carps mouth as opposed to knowing when their lead has moved.... Failure to comply ensures sleeping with the fishes :) carpmachine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseman Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Joe I'd be very happy fishing into normal brown silt so go for it. You might have to think a bit more about the end tackle for the distance rod to ensure you are happy with the way it is fishing, but all things being equal if you feather/stop the lead well as it hits, and apply a few of the tricks, you should be fine. Maybe try a chod type setup with the lead on an extension and the top bead well back, but with a bottom bait? Regarding the Black, rotting type silt my experiences are very different to some of you guys. I'll confidently fish into pretty much any silty area but I can't recall ever having a fish from an area where the silt was sludgy Black and smells strongly of decay. I'm not talking just your normal smelly mud here that is often alive with goodies, but the stuff that smells of sewerage. Places like right under overhanging hardwood trees where the leaf matter is really thick. Worst I ever encountered was when there was an algal bloom, and all the weed died in the lake and rotted on the bottom to a Black slimy layer. No one took a fish off the bottom for weeks/months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Thats why i was pointing out re the silt looking very different all over the country , god knows why since a rotting leaf is a leaf is a leaf regardless of where it is situated:) However this is apparently a fact , something i picked on not just in a fishing magazine (carpology) i believe , but also on a geological website so its easy enough to find . Agree lots with the advice you have given the lad above , Chod rig every time for me just making sure , as you say , the bottom bead is well above silts depth . Also , bottom bait on a Chod rig ? Yes indeed sir nice one . I caught that way myself a few years ago on a VERY hard water a few years ago albeit a specimen sized Bream ( ask Nick ). That difficult it would do CM's head in . It did mine :) carpmachine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseman Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Bottom bait on a Chod rig? Ha ha yes, I have to describe it that way as everyone these days knows what a Chod rig is. What I was describing used to be called a helicopter rig of course. Ideal for the situation that the OP described especially at distance, but a more natural presentation than a 2" popup like the traditional Chod. And different to what most if not all others on the lake will be fishing. Even if you're being watched closely because you are catching, no one will know that you are fishing a bottom bait... Bream? Slimy 'orrible things... Never had my longed for double out of Horseshoe despite trying at least once every season. What are we talking "Specimen sized" here then? salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 10lb + mate out of Nazeing Meads North Lagoon many moons ago ... And yes , 20mm bottom bait on an actual Chod rig . An ESP pre-tied Chod rig i believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpinthenet Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 And yes , 20mm bottom bait on an actual Chod rig . An ESP pre-tied Chod rig i believe didn't think you could do that! i thought a helicopter rig is just with a simple hair rig coming off the lead core Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 didn't think you could do that! i thought a helicopter rig is just with a simple hair rig coming off the lead core You can do whatever you like mate it works too albeit a Bream . I did it out of desperation as i was contemplating throwing myself in the River Lea and i remembered Adam Penning writing about it nealjt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Thats why i was pointing out re the silt looking very different all over the country , god knows why since a rotting leaf is a leaf is a leaf regardless of where it is situated:) However this is apparently a fact , something i picked on not just in a fishing magazine (carpology) i believe , but also on a geological website so its easy enough to find . Agree lots with the advice you have given the lad above , Chod rig every time for me just making sure , as you say , the bottom bead is well above silts depth . Also , bottom bait on a Chod rig ? Yes indeed sir nice one . I caught that way myself a few years ago on a VERY hard water a few years ago albeit a specimen sized Bream ( ask Nick ). That difficult it would do CM's head in . It did mine :smile: :smile:There has been a few mate. Miles too hard for me at the time mate ( not starting the other thing off again i hope ) about ten years too soon .Only took it on because my mate ( my transport ) wanted it . Fished a long weekend every week for 10 months . I said never again at the time . The ironic thing is that there is a lot more known to me about it , including on the internet , now and i feel like i could have another , better prepared go at it . Trouble is circumstances have changed also so its not going to happen any time soon . One day it will though , probably in my old age , along with the week at Moorlands i've promised myself . I can but dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 didn't think you could do that! i thought a helicopter rig is just with a simple hair rig coming off the lead core Leadcore ? Oooohhhhhhh sssshhhh ffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 there are one or two of the old pits around here that before the explosion in carp fishing had just naturally stocked fish, didn't cost anything to fish them but beware the gravel lorries, tried everything I knew to extract a carp, couldn't do it, moved on to Ecton with great success, but those bleak days on those old pits will live long in my memory and always serve as a reminder to me that my skills are limited, it became a mission and although I wasn't enjoying it, I just couldn't stop going back for more, what stopped me, I got married. I wish i could say i have no idea what you mean but i cant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpinthenet Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Leadcore ? Oooohhhhhhh sssshhhh ffs im guessing you don't use lead core then? i use tubing instead because i don't like splicing but i thought most people used it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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