Combi Rig vs Hinged Stiff Rig

[carefulcarping]

Hey guys,

 

I am hoping somebody can point me in the right direction here please?

 

This year im going to try and fish pop up baits a bit more often, after failing on some lakes with bottom baits as i couldnt get a decent presentation on certain lakes i feel pop ups would be the way to go.

 

But im not sure which rig would be best to do this.

 

I don't fish with leaders or leadcore so i guess that throws the chod out of the window.

 

So i have narrowed it down to either the combi rig or the hinged stiff rig.

 

But the only difference i can see between these 2 rigs is the actualy hooklink material. Both seem to start off with a flurocarbon from the swivel, then (from what i can read on the net) the combi rig goes to a short length of braid, and the hinged stiff rig has the flurocarbon going to the hook.

 

For a start, am i heading in the right direction of a decent pop up rig? and if so which one would be the better one to choose and play around with?

 

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

Ross

[bcfcarp1]

I cant really answer your main question but as far as the chod goes u could fish a naked chod ie straight on to the main line.

[rosstheangler]

Hinged stiff rig use bristle filament for the boom and the curved part of the rig like this

 

Googled hinged stiff rig

 

Also Happyhammers version:

[salokcinnodrog]

When it comes down to pop-up rigs I often go back to basics. I don't often play around with rigs much anyway, preferring to get location and feeding right over piddling about confusing myself and having the fish laugh at my overcomplicated rigs.

 

Yes I do sometimes go more advanced, but most of the time, there really is no need

 

For pop-ups I seem to go back to either braid or coated braid rigs. Tie a Uni knot loop at the end of the (stripped) braid hooklink and then attach the knot with a knotless knot. I then put putty over a stop (knot) or on the end of the stripped coating, or sometimes if I have already checked the buoyancy of my pop-ups at home, use an olivette. (I'm not paying silly money for Korda Sinkers )

 

I do sometimes head for D-rigs as I feel that they often sit right, but as far as I'm concerned the simpler the better.

[leggs007]

have to agree with nick keep things as simple as possible only in difficult swims that are hard will i try different rigs just to see if something different will work but most of my rigs are very very simple

[Guest keenook]

My own stiff rig has been very effective for me, even when fished in conjunction with a maize hook bait and a light running lead set up, as the rig has done the job and hooked the fish making it bolt and tightening to the clutch on the run, bingo job done!

 

So simple but so complex! That's the hallmalk of a good rig.

[carefulcarping]

Cheers guys, whenever i have tried fishing with pop ups before its litteraly being, 6 inch's of coated braid, 1 inch stripped back from the hair then with a lump of putty where the braid joins the stripped back part so an inch is popped up...Just never had any sucess on it that way and was wondering if the presentation was wrong. Il try and persist with it that way throughout this year and see if i can get it working and i was just fishing it at the wrong time, or not on the right spot etc.

[salokcinnodrog]

Cheers guys, whenever i have tried fishing with pop ups before its litteraly being, 6 inch's of coated braid, 1 inch stripped back from the hair then with a lump of putty where the braid joins the stripped back part so an inch is popped up...Just never had any sucess on it that way and was wondering if the presentation was wrong. Il try and persist with it that way throughout this year and see if i can get it working and i was just fishing it at the wrong time, or not on the right spot etc.

 

I have a feeling that on some waters pop-ups themselves may have blown, or in particular spots may well not work.

 

That "bright yellow different flavoured" pop-up not used before or a food bait fished with a food bait pop-up could work.

 

How the pop-up is mounted may have some relevance as well. A bait that is a long way from the hook may behave very weirdly in contrast to the free bottom baits. If this bait is able to wave around in front of the fish then it may be left as being unnatural, although Brian Garner years ago did have some good results on long haired pop-ups on The Mangrove Swamp.

 

Go back to the wrong spot, if the fish are feeding hard on the lakebed, a bait presented more than (for example) 5 cms off the lakebed may well be ignored. Not even intentionally, but simply because the fish don't come up to feed at that height. Feeding heavily with particles, pellets or groundbait and a pop-up may well be the wrong choice of hookbait. Yet a bottom bait may likely work.

[coops_northants]

For pop up rigs I use hinge stiff rigs for anti tangle properties. I fish them on a helicopter set up with 6 to 10 inches of movement with the backstop bead. Mainly fished over light silt bottoms.

 

If I'm fishing over harder bottoms I use the multi rig with a clip set up as you can get the pop up section quite short if needed and can create a great hinge effect with coated braid (Jel-e-wire is my preferred hookink for this)

 

If your not having much luck with pop ups or bottom baits then try a wafter, these sort the fish out. They don't see them that often as most companies don't make them and those that do make them very few make them right. But get the right ones and you have a unique hook bait which is fished in it's simplest form.

[carefulcarping]

For pop up rigs I use hinge stiff rigs for anti tangle properties. I fish them on a helicopter set up with 6 to 10 inches of movement with the backstop bead. Mainly fished over light silt bottoms.

 

If I'm fishing over harder bottoms I use the multi rig with a clip set up as you can get the pop up section quite short if needed and can create a great hinge effect with coated braid (Jel-e-wire is my preferred hookink for this)

 

If your not having much luck with pop ups or bottom baits then try a wafter, these sort the fish out. They don't see them that often as most companies don't make them and those that do make them very few make them right. But get the right ones and you have a unique hook bait which is fished in it's simplest form.

 

To fish it helicopter style with a back bead would I have to use a leader? As I don't no how you would use a back bead on straight mono?

 

If I'm not mistaken you make your own wafters? And own a bait company? An it I remember rightly you supplied courtz and his mate some wafters for sandhurst and they bagged up on there last 24 hours there?

[nigewoodcock]

For pop up rigs I use hinge stiff rigs for anti tangle properties. I fish them on a helicopter set up with 6 to 10 inches of movement with the backstop bead. Mainly fished over light silt bottoms.

 

If I'm fishing over harder bottoms I use the multi rig with a clip set up as you can get the pop up section quite short if needed and can create a great hinge effect with coated braid (Jel-e-wire is my preferred hookink for this)

 

If your not having much luck with pop ups or bottom baits then try a wafter, these sort the fish out. They don't see them that often as most companies don't make them and those that do make them very few make them right. But get the right ones and you have a unique hook bait which is fished in it's simplest form.

 

To fish it helicopter style with a back bead would I have to use a leader? As I don't no how you would use a back bead on straight mono?

 

If I'm not mistaken you make your own wafters? And own a bait company? An it I remember rightly you supplied courtz and his mate some wafters for sandhurst and they bagged up on there last 24 hours there?

 

Have a read through this:

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=51296

 

Just use whichever rig suits if you want a helicopter rig without a leeder.

[leggs007]

You can use Korda sinkers and push your bead over top of sinker or use lead stops and mould a bit of putty round it. Another tip is to not use hole already in bead stop but to make new one with baiting needle this will hold the beads a bit tighter on the line with the ability to slide up and down the line if you get a fish on. You will need to pull line through bead with baiting needle tho.

[cobleyn]

I'm much the same as Jamie. I use a hinged stiff rig on a helicopter set-up for pop-ups. I use combi rigs for bottom baits.

 

Reasons being:

 

A hinged stiff rig (and for the way I tie it see):

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=53044&highlight=

 

I think that it gives the pop-up a full range of movement but is difficult to eject. It also resets itself when a fish or tufty moves it. Its also very tangle proof.

 

However, its limitations are when there is a soft bottom- as it can sick up at a funny angle. This can be negated by the use of a helicopter set-up rather than a safety clip - as the lead dives in and leaves the rig on top. By moving the beads further up your tubing you can allow for deeper silt (unless it is deep and soft- in which case choose a differnet rig)

 

For combi rigs - I like the stiffness of the initial material to stop tangles and to aid keeping the bait away from the lead. for bottom baits it does the jobs I need- so no need to be any more complicated!

[carefulcarping]

Cheers lads, looks like ive got abit of mixed opinions, after reading through the posts you supplied, your opinions and the internet, i think im going to have a go with the hinged stiff rig (as far as my pop ups are concerned) I don't think ive got much to lose other than not catching, although i will be trying it on one rod and my bottom bait on the other rod. And if the fish can get caught often enough then try different pop up rigs/presentations on each rod.

 

Ross.

[willi4692]

Much like Nick said, pop-ups are best used away from tight beds of bait. I think you should think about how you're fishing before using pop-ups just for the sake of it. If you're fishing a tight bed of particles I would suggest sticking to your bottom baits. I use a pop-up if I am fishing a spread of bait, usually on a choddy.

 

Relating to the original question, it may be worth looking at Gaz Fareham's version of the 360 rig, I have been using this for 12 months or so and can't recommend it enough. The key thing with this rig is to keep the combi section as short as possible, you don't want the bait fully popped-up, you want the bait to act like a wafter.

[carefulcarping]

Much like Nick said, pop-ups are best used away from tight beds of bait. I think you should think about how you're fishing before using pop-ups just for the sake of it. If you're fishing a tight bed of particles I would suggest sticking to your bottom baits. I use a pop-up if I am fishing a spread of bait, usually on a choddy.

 

Relating to the original question, it may be worth looking at Gaz Fareham's version of the 360 rig, I have been using this for 12 months or so and can't recommend it enough. The key thing with this rig is to keep the combi section as short as possible, you don't want the bait fully popped-up, you want the bait to act like a wafter.

 

My style of fishing revolves around a spread of boilies, just normaly put my rig in a PVA bag for anti tangle purposes. Then throw boilies out with a stick. But on silty lakes I fish I do struggle with bottom baits

[coops_northants]

For pop up rigs I use hinge stiff rigs for anti tangle properties. I fish them on a helicopter set up with 6 to 10 inches of movement with the backstop bead. Mainly fished over light silt bottoms.

 

If I'm fishing over harder bottoms I use the multi rig with a clip set up as you can get the pop up section quite short if needed and can create a great hinge effect with coated braid (Jel-e-wire is my preferred hookink for this)

 

If your not having much luck with pop ups or bottom baits then try a wafter, these sort the fish out. They don't see them that often as most companies don't make them and those that do make them very few make them right. But get the right ones and you have a unique hook bait which is fished in it's simplest form.

 

To fish it helicopter style with a back bead would I have to use a leader? As I don't no how you would use a back bead on straight mono?

 

If I'm not mistaken you make your own wafters? And own a bait company? An it I remember rightly you supplied courtz and his mate some wafters for sandhurst and they bagged up on there last 24 hours there?

 

Almost spot on. Courtz did use them as did I and also dan and one or two others with, I would say, a decent level of success and PBs.

 

As said about the bead. baiting needle through the side does the job and is fairly safe if your not using a leader. Or a very little blob of putty on the line the bead sits against it tight enough on the cast and pulls off easy and the bead pulls off easier.

 

Over the years I have played with hinge stiff rigs and have now settled on what I think is the best combo. Rigmarole 20lb fluro for the chod section about 1.5 inches to a size 11 swivel. The swivel is on the end of a 10mm loop on the boom section. The boom section being 12lb amnesia also with a size9 big eye swivel looped the other side. This gives loads of movement and means you sit fine even in weed and light silt. The boom section being about 4-6 inches total.