best hooks to use with flurocarbon?

[colors]

never really used flurocarbon hooklengths before but im fishing a lake with really clear water so want to give it a go. i've heard you can have problems with flurocarbon making the hook turn in on itself? is there any particular hook i should be look at for my rigs, both for bottom and pop ups?

[beanz]

it would be down to the knot more than the hook i think

 

im guessing it the knotless knot causing the problem you could add the line agliner

 

or try the snell knot

 

[zander1]

Im not a massive fan of using a full fluro rig, i like having movement near the hook and bait.

 

Try tying up a few combi rigs, using the hooks and braid you normally use in conjunction with the fluro

[nash_gadgeteer]

The answer is any hook you feel confident in, personally i use Fox Arma points in all pattern, sizes etc.

 

Use the knotless knot and wrap around the shank 7-8 times and then twice back over the whipping to avoid the know working loose. no need to use heat shrink or silicone sleeve.

 

But you do need to stretch the hooklink straight, use a pair of hookpullers (Korda do them) and this not only checks your knots but also aligns the fluro straight.

 

As mentioned some people use combi link etc, but do something different and use a complete fluro hookink, excellent tangle free presentation, as its stiffness pushes the bait away from the weight, but also some thing the carp hasn't seen before, and find it hard to eject.

 

Hope that helps, give it go....

[colors]

hi nash_gadgeteer, i tend to use the fox arma points too. i tried tying up a full fluro rig with a fox ssc hook and even after straightening the flurocarbon the hook was turning in on itself too much. it seems to be when i tie the knotless knot and put the fluro back through the eye the hook is pushed virtually to a 90 degrees angle which just looks odd. i was thinking of using a different type of hook maybe something with an outturned eye like a chod hook but im not sure these would be great with bottom baits?

[colors]

beanz i will try that knot, hopefully it will sort my rigs out

[colors]

maybe a daft question but i still want to use a full fluro hooklength but the actual hair i would like to use a supple braid. how do i tie the hair to the hook? i know i can use the combi rig but this means having part of my actual hooklength as braid, i would prefer to have all fluro hooklength and just the hair itself as braid, any ideas?

[salokcinnodrog]

maybe a daft question but i still want to use a full fluro hooklength but the actual hair i would like to use a supple braid. how do i tie the hair to the hook? i know i can use the combi rig but this means having part of my actual hooklength as braid, i would prefer to have all fluro hooklength and just the hair itself as braid, any ideas?

 

Simples

 

You actually reduce the risk of one of your problems as well

 

Find a knot that you are comfortable tying in fluorocarbon, and tie the hook on properly. Then using the fine piece of braid tie a hair onto the eye of the hook, maybe using a small piece of tubing to position the perfect exit point from the hook, shank or bend dependant on what you want (the back of the shank gives better hooking potential re Andy Little).

You can cover the hookeye and knots with either shrink tubing or fine silicon tubing.

 

My comment about the reducing a potential problem, the out turn on many eyes means that with a knotless knot it has a weakspot that the rubbing of the hook may eventually cause to break.

 

Also if you do find that with a knotless knot, then actually coming out of the back of the eye with the knotless knot reduces both the overturning and reduces the risk of the rubbing breaking the hooklink.

[colors]

i must sound really thick here, wouldnt the hair just unravel as its not tied to anything? not sure if i have got this right but from what i made out i would tie fluro to my hook with a grinner knot or blood knot. then i make my hair with some braid and whip the braid around the hook like you would with a knotless knot. what is there to stop the braid from just unwhipping itself off the hook shank?

[salokcinnodrog]

i must sound really thick here, wouldnt the hair just unravel as its not tied to anything? not sure if i have got this right but from what i made out i would tie fluro to my hook with a grinner knot or blood knot. then i make my hair with some braid and whip the braid around the hook like you would with a knotless knot. what is there to stop the braid from just unwhipping itself off the hook shank?

 

Then using the fine piece of braid tie a hair onto the eye of the hook

 

As in tie a knot in it

[beanz]

maybe a daft question but i still want to use a full fluro hooklength but the actual hair i would like to use a supple braid. how do i tie the hair to the hook? i know i can use the combi rig but this means having part of my actual hooklength as braid, i would prefer to have all fluro hooklength and just the hair itself as braid, any ideas?

 

you could tie a loop with with an over hand knot ,at the lenght you want the hair plus about 5mm,then cut a 5mm lenght of shrink tube(you can you just tubing ) then thread the loop through the tube ,then making sure the knot end will sit up near the eye,thread it over the point and up the shank of the hook, once steamed its nice and tidy,if you use shrink tube you can trap the knot inside making things even tidier.or if just tubing make sure the knot is above and cant slide through.

 

with this trick it makes replacing a hair on a old(sharp ) rig easy,just cut off the old hair and do as above.

 

you can tie on the hair but depending on the size of the eye and diametre of hook link sometimes it fiddly to poke the braid through the eye

[jogon26]

I tend to use 15lb esp soft ghost with a wide gape hook and a soft hair bit of braid or bait floss when u tie the knotless knot whip away from the seam of the hook eye and then whip twice towards the eye stops the knot from moving and has never let me down .

 

tight lines rich

[138cgj]

On the lighter, smaller diameter fluoros and monos the 'kick' the KK gives can be beneficial, the heavier, thicker lines seem arent so good though as the movement is even more restricted.

 

Up until last year my PB was caught using a simple KK with fluoro

[zander1]

The answer is any hook you feel confident in, personally i use Fox Arma points in all pattern, sizes etc.

 

Use the knotless knot and wrap around the shank 7-8 times and then twice back over the whipping to avoid the know working loose. no need to use heat shrink or silicone sleeve.

 

But you do need to stretch the hooklink straight, use a pair of hookpullers (Korda do them) and this not only checks your knots but also aligns the fluro straight.

 

As mentioned some people use combi link etc, but do something different and use a complete fluro hookink, excellent tangle free presentation, as its stiffness pushes the bait away from the weight, but also some thing the carp hasn't seen before, and find it hard to eject.

 

Hope that helps, give it go....

 

If you can get the rig to actually hook in the first place- there has to be some movement near the hook for truly effective hooking- little bleeps you get whilst fishing a full fluro hooklink may not be the wind or liners, but in fact a carp taking your bait- but from the wrong angle. (Im not saying your wrong- i just do it different )

 

I personally have found that a minimum of two hinges are needed on every rig, full fluro included. One by the hook, the other by the lead. With out this you are relying on the fish to approach your rig from the correct way- not competent angling. This doesnt mean you have to "tie" a combi rig using fluro and braid tho.

 

360 rigs etc lend there selves well to this but for something simpler (less components/ bottom bait presentation) you could try tying a widegape pattern (Armapoint SSBP/SSSP) to the fluro with a small loop, a loop to the swivel and add a hair- job done and pretty simple. Basic and definitely room for improvement- but better, imo, than a standard fluro stiff rig

[colors]

zander, when you say use a wide gape hook and a small loop, i cant picture this. are you saying tie the hook to the fluro with a loop type knot like you would at the swivel end for using quick change swivels?

[zander1]

Yes exactly

 

I have uploaded some pics for you to look at- started life as a bog standard fluro rig and then i evolved it more and more as i used it- however, i prefer coated braid rigs or combi's as i never felt that the full fluro rig could match the hooking rate and hook hold and so i never really finished evolving it- definitely better than what i started with tho.

 

Take a look;

size 7 ssbp hook, 12lb jrc soft fluro, micro rig ring and E-S-P hair braid.

Fig of 8 knot at the hook and swivel clip.

 

You may not need the rig ring on the shank- silicon/rig tubing can hold the hair where you like- i just use rings as standard as i have more confidence in them as the hair can re set its self after a fish has mouthed the bait- tubing doesnt.

[beanz]

thats interesting zander, looking at it i think the could be a possibity of the hook getting spun back and missing the chance to get a hold..........defintitly think if it was tubing and not a ring lining the hair up that would be the case.

 

a few years back i did realy well on full IQ(not soft) rigs, including hair

 

and my thinking was that once it was in the boom effect made it hard for it to be ejected,they would need to back off rather than blow it out.

 

that be said ,any rig the angler has confidence in will always work.

[zander1]

thats interesting zander, looking at it i think the could be a possibity of the hook getting spun back and missing the chance to get a hold..........defintitly think if it was tubing and not a ring lining the hair up that would be the case.

 

a few years back i did realy well on full IQ(not soft) rigs, including hair

 

and my thinking was that once it was in the boom effect made it hard for it to be ejected,they would need to back off rather than blow it out.

 

that be said ,any rig the angler has confidence in will always work.

 

I understand that completely-i have caught fish on rigs that sound similar to yours- just that personally i have felt that im missing out on fish that way.

 

Heres a point for thought tho- the only real reason i like fluro is the fact that its ni-on invisible in water. Ive started fishing a 20 acre lake with 300 carp in last week, crystal clear water- average 13 foot deep but the margins shallow right up, ive caught 12 carp so far in 2 sessions.- from the margins (say 4 foot depth) so the botom is highly visible, clean gravel leading to a slight "chod" by the rushes so if i got too close i was fishing in the "chod".

 

Now then, scenes set, all 12 of the 12 fish i caught using suffix camfusion- The first session i fished full fluro rigs (was only half a day session tho) all session, had a few knocks and no fish so i went to look over my baited area and there was disturbance (silt clouds) so i knew there was fish feeding on/near my bait. yet i hadn't hooked one!

Time was running out- had about an hour befor my lift arrived so i stopped worrying about rig visibility and put coated braid rigs out, pretty obvious to look at on the bottom in comparison, yet i caught with in 20 mins of the change.

second time i went i fished coated braid rigs all day (full 12hour session) and i had 11 carp out, all on bottom baits (pop-ups didn't get a touch unless it was a snow man).

I wont be using full fluro rigs again in a hurry- combis and hinged rigs yes- but full fluro no.

 

So the point is- is the one key factor of fluro (visibility) worth the compromise?????????

 

BTW There were one or 2 other carpers on there- they all blanked (expectedly on this water apparently). I was only expecting to catch 1 fish every other time i went really- untill now anyway :/

[salokcinnodrog]

Here is something for you with fluorocarbon:

 

When fluoro is fished over gravel then the reflection of light back from the bottom can make it glow (re Rob Hughes Carpology and Ian Russel lakebed test), yet over weed it does not reflect back that light. I had a feeling a few years ago that this was the case and so it may affect results.

 

( https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=25537&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25

And before I started avoiding leadcore totally:

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=16818&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75

[willi4692]

A rig i have had a lot of success on is using the IQ soft tied with a palomar knot to the hook. I then tie a supple braided hair straight to the furthest bend as it starts to turn towards the point. Attach a hook stopper to stop the hair from sliding off the hook (although the knot, usually a half blood, shouldn't slide too much on the hook). Add shrink tube over the eye of the hook and shrink at an aggressive angle. This adds a bit more solidity to the knot holding the hook and aids flipping. This rig is very hard to see and flips very quickly and i have had countless success on it. It is also suitable for all lake beds as IQ soft isn't as stiff as other flurocarbons and settles over the contours of the lake bed. I can take some photos if people want to make their own decisions on the rig.

 

Cheers

 

Will

[meads]

I use Korda hooks, but why not just try what you have previously been using and have confidence in?

[beza26]

ESP Stiff riggers.

[jemsue5]

I never use fluoro with a knotless knot as i've had it go a couple of times due to the pressure exerted on the hooklink as it leaves the eye. Always use a palomar and a braid hair now if i feel the need to use fluoro which to be honest aint very often. Have to be honest and say a simple combi from a coated braid does for me most of the time.

[zander1]

I never use fluoro with a knotless knot as i've had it go a couple of times due to the pressure exerted on the hooklink as it leaves the eye. Always use a palomar and a braid hair now if i feel the need to use fluoro which to be honest aint very often. Have to be honest and say a simple combi from a coated braid does for me most of the time.

 

Too right Jez, could'nt agree more

[Guest Anonymous]

Zander, I'm liking that a lot mate. Have you tried it critically balancing a pop up by moulding putty around the loop knot? In fact it's making me dribble so much I think I'll experiment