levigsp

& the idea was stolen from sea fishermen who have used it for hundreds of years Used by sea anglers yes but not stolen from them,as the same could be said for the hair rig

One of the methods of using the paternoster in the 60/70s that was the for runner to the so called chod was basicaly Nicks drawing reversed. The very short hook link was tied to a swival,this was threaded up the mainline,and a ring was tied to the mainline at its end,to this was attatched a length of weaker line tied to the lead,this was often quite a long length of line to fish the bait well away from the lead. This was done for two reasons,one is that we wanted to seperate the hook and lead by some distance as we were starting to think along the lines of fish ditecting electrical currents between the lead and hook etc. The second was the bait could not be dragged into the silt[nothing new you see]

That to me is the best answer so far,and if more people thought like that it would make my job on riggy waters far harder. Yes we all know that tackle catches anglers,however it also catches fish. You need to taylor your gear to where you fish,simple realy Frank, Just for you and how far I tailor my rigs to the lakebed. This is from the lake today. The straight (ish) line 90 degrees to the base of the pic is actually a reed stem. The lake was a bit murky, it is normally a brownish peaty hue, so this pic is not too clear, even if only taken from a metre away. The only thing that you can possibly make out is the red blob of a Hookbait. The Rig itself is toatlly camouflaged into the bottom. Correction I can actually make out the lead! You actualy got yourself out on the bank Nick I new this without seeing the photo,how?well I know you are one of the few thinking anglers out there. My point earlyer was I agreed with you on that at some point be prepaired to be different. This cannot be done if you dont have the equipment to be different. I know 100% if anybody fishes an unfished water with a standard hair rig setup,then they will truely reap the rewards. However if you try the same setup on a heaverly fished water with big carp,then you will fail the majority of the time. I fish some waters where the carp have seen everything,if you fish with any of the rigs you see in the mags/books/forums etc you will catch,but not regulary. If you sit back and think, then use materials and setups you know the carp have not seen before you will catch on a regular basis. In the past few years I have proved this time and time again.

That to me is the best answer so far,and if more people thought like that it would make my job on riggy waters far harder. Yes we all know that tackle catches anglers,however it also catches fish. You need to taylor your gear to where you fish,simple realy

Just out of interest as i'd never heard of it until now, how would you know if weils disease was prevalent? I just googled it and it doesn't sound pleasant! You don't! Also bear in mind that Weils disease can be spread by Rats, Squirrels, Foxes, Badgers and some other mammals as well. Obviously if Rats are present and a problem you are not going to be licking your line. Please do not forget humans. One of the worst outbreaks of weils in the world accured when a large number reported ill,it was found the only commen denominator was a swimming pool. The pool was checked for virmin ingress,none was found so blood test were conducted. One carrier was found to have urinated in the pool

I prefer mine quite short nowdays,my reasoning is if its to long my flat cap keeps falling off

I couldn't agree more,slack lines move the wheel on alarms easyer that tight lines. When im fishing slack lines I have my sensetivety turned right up other wise I would go mad with the constant bleeps.

Not only will the shape of the lead make a difference as Nick said,but the type of bottom. A 1oz pendent will give more resistence on a silty bottom than on a firm one You basicly need to work out for yourself what you need the lead to do, eg plug in the bottom,sit on the clay -gravel ,the range you wish to cast etc. It is something that you as an angler need to work out for yourself by a mixture of common sense and experience.

At a guess I should think I have 40 or so,like to make sure things are spot on,which I find easyer to do at home.

I was actualy thinking of two legged vermin of various types. Another to try involves a hyperdermic full of mercury,and a trampoline,compleate with guard so they cannot get of

Mine is a wire brush and a strong elestic band

Quite correct in your assumptions I think the fish comes first,it has to,to the piont where I have turned down the prospect of a huge fish that I knew would be hurt in the fight. I use the rig knowing that it is safe in my hands,and I only use it with barbed hooks. coincidently I always use barbed hooks if possible.

Even a LWB one??? Not everyone takes a trailer when they go?? Or was that levi?? I take a trailer just for my food

Hi does anyone know of a small lake with nice accomadation that could be hired by two anglers and there partners. No places at silly prices please as this holiday will be paid for by one person,for reasons I will not go into. Late september or october if possible

Fish have come first all my life,so I am carefull what I do.If i beleaved I could damage a fishes mouth with this rig anymore than any other than I would stop using it. Dave Lane might condeme the rig but a lot of big name anglers condone it. Buy the way I have seen a lot more damage caused by shortshank wide gapes,where they have been cut out by the angler who couldnt see then buried in the flesh. And even more dammage done by barbless hooks of all styles,.

I sorry I have to disagree with you.Ive used this rig on one rod all season,and looking at my records Ive had 39 fish on the rig from approx 1LB to35lb,without mouth dammage to any of them. A frend stoped useing the rig because of mouth dammage. The problem is the angler not the rig,as ussual. I play fish to the net regardless of size,my frend bullies them to the net. The rig normaly hooks well back and the mechanics of the rig force the point and barb deep into the flesh,if you play the fish theres no problem,if you bully the fish to much,regardless of size the hook will rip out on thin liped fish and empale elsewhere in the mouth. I have seen the same dammage with every rig when the fish has been hooked deep and bullied. At the end of the day its up to the angler to use the rig safely,I would not use it in a hit and hold situation.

Try spiderwire or Fireline,there the same fused M Dyneema as apposed to spectra braid.

hi,the ph of most UK lakes is somewhere between 6.9 and 8,most neutral. How ever some of the mountain lochs,tarn ect are slightly acidic,whereas some lowland ponds and lakes are slightly alkali. We suffer both with natural and artificial Eutrophication,the first is not normaly a problem except in freak hot years,the second is a problem,that the water boards and enviroment agency are constantly fighting with.

When I studied marine biology and water (care?) A,B and C (Dont know the english names of all the courses),we learned the term "Point of no return" as a term describing when a water gets enough acids, that the heavy metals dissolve and kills everything, making it allmost impossible to restore. I dont know if you use that term in the UK but it would be strange if you dont, since we used the term in english and not swedish. Point of no return is, anyway a term used in many different subjects. It's a quite normal "chaos" term. Let me get this straight, I do NOT think it is ok to have carps swimming around with leads. My point was that if I was the person losing leads all the time, I would check the rig to make the leads loosen only when fish snaggs, and not on normal takes. I agree with you we shouldnt just discard leads,but as I said I would rather lose leads than teather fish.By the way I too have studied aquatic biology,and I studid the effects of lead in UKand EU waterways,and Im an active member of IFM so I can keep on top of current issues.

Hi used marzipan in1972 very succesful

Sgart,Point of no return is actualy a flight term,it means the point in fuel load that you reach[just over half]when you cannot return. If a lake got so acidic that it started to disolve lead,the fish would be dead. For a lake to get so acidic it would need a large amount of acid to be dumped into the water,this then could be neutralised by an equaly large amount of alkali,so the action could be reversed. You would need a huge amount of anglers leads in the water to be a problem[far more than is lost in the UK]. Far far better to lose leads and land fish safely,than to lose fish atached to leads. another point if mercury[quicksilver] was dumped into the water,it would kill fish acid or not. We should all be one together in our use of safe rigs,if that means losing leads than so be it.

Could you please think about your statement after reading this.The PH would have to drop to a leval that is more dangerous to the fish than the lead. The lead would become an,nitride/sulphide ect not oxide. Approx 33% of all lakes and pits dug in the uk have huge amounts of lead already in them,exposed by the mineing of stone/ballast ect,without any ill health in fish ect. I studid the effects of lead in our waterways for both the BFSS and BASC when the goverment put up its draft paper on a lead ban for shooting. I believe I Know the effects.

There will be no consequences at all. Lead is stable in water, it wont pollute it unless you add other chemicals to the water so that the lead can be chemically broken down. People only started suffering from lead poisoning from drinking water once the water companys started adding chlorine and fluoride to our drinking water which in turn made lead pipes chemically unstable. The only way leads could be a danger is if any wildlife was to ingest some, but I cant see many ducks eating the size leads most modern carp anglers use. well said