levigsp

Hi approx 40 years of fishing the lead and I have NEVER foul hook a carp, no matter what the rig. I MUST be doing something wrong

I think it is exactly the opposite. There is a HUGE difference to highly pressured water and highly stocked water. These fish are educated because they have been under pressure at some time, so they realize hooks are dangerous. That is why they cleaned up all the bait and not his hook bait. One heavily stocked waters you can get the fish competing for food, as they need the feed as you rightly point out, so even if educated they are more likely to make a mistake. On EVERY unfished lake I have had fortune to fish, once feeding the fish would pickup literally any hook bait, no matter how crude. Please do not confuse pressure and stock. Frank

Do you have any pics of that? i don't quite understand how you can tie the d seperate? as its the knotless know that holds in place isn't it? Im a bit slow on these things though Dale Hi I have no photo ready but it is easy to understand with out. Get a length of stiff bristle and a hook. Forget the eye of the hook and treat it as a spade end, tie on the stiff bristle. Now the tag end[closest the bend] is threaded through a ring or micro swivel, then the eye of the hook, so forming the D. It is then blobed with a lighter to stop it coming back through the eye. The other end exiting the knot closest the eye is neatly cut of. Now you have a hook with a D rig ready to attach as you please. Or you can simply whip the bristle onto the shank of the hook with fine thread, either works. Or attach the bristle to the shank with aquasure

Hi, the did is tied using very stiff nylon/bristle, the braid is then tied to the hook with a polomar knot. Your second question is very valid in my eyes. In theory the carp sucks the bait up and the hook follows regardless of how it lands. In practice I do not believe it and I think the same as you that the carp sucks both in. If it is a fish that picks the bait up then it will feel that something is not right before the hook is anywhere near its mouth. If you saw how quickly carp could separate feed and stones you would have no doubt. Some would say I am the same as a lot of others and just frightened to use long hairs. When I first used hair rigs they were often 3-4 inches long, and fished on free running setups or freelined. Frank

Ive seen this diagram in a book fella, im now racking my brains to think of which one Frank, As regards to the 360. Ive heard nothing but bad points on this due to the hook, double hooking fish. I think its something to do with cos the angle that the swivel creates on the hook eye. Have you had any experience of this yourself? Now i do admit i dont know the ins and outs of this rig at all cos im not sure of what situation it would be needed in my fishing. Can you shed any light on this at all? Tony I this was discussed a couple of years ago and Ill say now what I think I said then. Dispite catching countless fish on the rig I have yeat to dammage the mouth on any fish. Regardless of how good a rig is, I would not use it if it hurt fish. I will add again that I only use it when I think it is what is needed, and that is normaly to target a certain fish. However I have caught small fish on it without double hooking. Frank

Some decent thought there Nick but I answered the question asked. Nick I did say I knew not all fish were suckers, meaning they do not suck and blow and that I had seen fish actually pick single baits up. When they feed like this, like Chub they are most definitely caught easier by baits as close to the hook as possible, but dependent on the bottom this cannot always be achieved with the same rig. That is the reason why Ill stick to a D Rig with soft braid for a bottom bait or a popup on a 360 or chod type setup. If I am fishing where carp feed by sucking and blowing then normal knotless knotted rigs will serve me as well as anyone. I know without shadow of doubt that on one of my target waters the bigger fish were constantly getting away with it. I tried various hair lengths, various length of hooklink bottom baits, balanced and popups etc. etc. and nothing not one single bleep. But all the boilies were gone after a very short time. A change to a 360, not only did I catch some fish but one was caught twice in three days, this taught me a lesson. Now the same could be true in reverse and you could on certain waters fish a 360 till the cows come home with out a tap. To me knowing what the substrate of a lake is made up off helps me know how the bigger residents are LIKELY to feed, this helps me decide how to fish. I have said this before and I will repeat it, the bigger the fish the more it eats and the more often it should be caught. If it is not being caught it is not being angled for correctly. Normally the bigger fish have been caught because they really have made a BIG mistake not because the angler has not. The angler should force the fish into making a mistake. Be cause of my circumstances I do not have the luxury of going for a quick day session or overnighter, I travel thousands of miles a year to target my chosen fish, if I wished to just fish to pass the time of day I would stay up here and go Salmon Fishing when I felt like it. I go angling to catch my target fish, I cannot help it is how I am. If I am not catching my target fish relatively quickly after I have it feeding, I know I am angling poorly and I will change things so I am angling well. Believe me, all of you, If I thought tying sixty four swivels two condoms and a packet of rice up in one rig was going to catch my target I would do it. Fortunately normally I do not need to go to those lengths. Yes there are places and days when a simple hair rigged bait, fastened to a heavy leader and even heavier lead will catch fish and catch thousands of fish to boot, but! I do not want to catch thousands of fish. I want to catch certain fish and these by their very nature are often the fish that pick a bait up and drop it almost straight away. One final thought for you all. Picture a table you’re sat at blind folded. On that table are ten apples and you are told to pick them up in turn. You would do so tentatively getting braver by the apple, but if there was a hook the size of the apple 8mm thick attached to one, you would without knowing why drop that apple. If on the other hand there were a ratrap placed under one you would not get the chance to drop the apple. We are setting that same table with mini apples for the carp their lips are our hands, out tentative approach from the blindfold is the same as theirs from being hooked in the past etc. And finally their rattrap is the 360 on the end of my line. Frank

I apologise if I read you wrong.

I agree with your thoughts. Frank

Tony you are right in what you say but! The question was about fish that pickup and drop strait away and that is all. And you should allow the person asking to do so without jumping down their throat and you should also allow other forum users to answer the question again without ridicule. After all most of the questions on here are hypothetical I have watched fish do this as said. I have tried various things to catch said fish and given my verdict, a truthful one. If I had fished for ten years for may target fish with a simple knotless knot I probably would have not caught it. If the question was what rig will catch the most fish, I would have said as simple a hair rig as possible., but that was not the question. Just my opinion. Frank

I have only ever watched one short video but I know your statement is incorrect. I have watched countless carp feed in clear water to realize that not all carp are suckers. I have seen carp, especially big carp swim into an area, home in on the food trail, and pick up a single boilie as soft as you like. I have also watched a big carp pick over a kilo of boilies up and bully every other fish out of the way, yet when it picked up the only one with a hook it dropped it instantly. There is no denying that most carp are suckers but not all, and for those that are not you definitely need a rig that instantly hooks. An absolutely brilliant rig that has caught so many big carp it's almost unbelievable. Having said that depending on the bottom the Chod or the short hooklink on a hinged stiff rig [given they are both the same] is an absolute belter. For bottom baits its got to be anything with a lot of movement in the hooklink but the bait on a D. One of the best I know of is a simple D rig, with a very soft braided hooklink, either direct to swivel or normally to a stiffish boom [combi]. Frank

I have come to the same conclusion and have decided to give him this last opportunity to answer with a sensible response, before I start to ignore his jabber. Are we sure this is Jim? After all with his glory seeking you would think he would be proud to display his rig etc. Frank

Jim I am very confused:? YOU are the one who has been saying you need to use leadcore, others on here have said its not necessary. If you are referring to the so called chod rig, then again you are the one who says you need lead-core etc., I am the one who says no need, simply use line straight through and balance the popup by adding weight to the swivel on the hooklink. Please explain as you are now starting to do my head in. Frank

Quite right if you use your brain you will not get tangles. Casting correctly also helps a great deal. I will also say that on experiments I did two or so years ago every baited rig I cast to the far side of a pool [50metres] was not tangled on the bottom. However on retrieval 4 out of 11 were tangled. So do not assume you are getting tangled on the cast.

Hi Everyone. I must say that although I agree with a lot that has been said I must add the following. Not everyone will wish to use a running rig, lets face it there are a lot of different bolt style rigs used. But the regardless of rigs the rules can be the same. Most rigs used for carp fishing can be used without leaders or tubing. When and if a leader is needed think very carefully about what you use and stay well clear of lead-core. Frank

Most definitely not. There are thousands of fish every day caught on rigs with the lead eye or swivel running on the line without problem. The reason for using a large run-ring is to stop weed and detritus from jamming up the running arrangement.

I genuinely think the thicker the line the less likelihood there is of this happening and the fact a lot of anglers fish with heavy line nowadays helps. Keith I will be honest and say I never really gave that a thought but I doubt it. If it were the hooklink it would surely effect the smaller carp, as there would be more likelihood of a long hooklink reaching their sides. You have caught enough big carp to realize that a short/standard hooklink will not reach the flank. My theory is that the scales are larger on the bigger fish and there is more likelihood of the line slipping under them. You will no doubt recall that I stated I use leaders in the margins for free lining, since doing this I have not had a problem. This could be coincidence though because as I said it was not a common occurrence. However you will be pleased to know due to our discussions on leaders I have re-thought my rigs for this season, and I will no longer use leaders for this. I will try heavy fluro mainline instead. Frank

Hi I have to admit that I have lifted scales with mono. Not often but to say I haven’t would be a lie. Its been the bigger mirrors and for some strange reason often when hooked close to the bank/margin. Frank

Yes Keith and something I should have said in my post. And lets hope the angling trade takes notice of the photo's, and well done Simon for haveing the guts to publish. The more I see and read the more I realise about the inherent dangers of various bits and pieces of tackle commonly used by carp anglers and its about time it was shown up for what it is, a money spinner that ends the life of a carp.

As noknot said you do not need a leader for a chod to work. "Safezone leaders are expensive" they might be but there are leaders exactly the same for a fraction of the price, but why buy them if not needed, they certainly dont do what it says on the tin I know of leaders that are far softer, heavyer than leadcore etc, BUT I WILL NOT recomend them,because sooner or later I will have it on my conscience when someone missuses them and kills a fish.

Thanks Nick your a Gent.

Now I know why I joined the forum to learn Please Nick educate me on Superstiff'ening.

Some years ago Partridge bought out D rig hooks complete with ring and the hair whipped onto the shank, they even did them in green Didn't Carp-R-Us (on Nailers ?) and Big Fish Adventure also follow suit? I gave some of the Carp-R-Us ones that I got as samples somewhere to a mate who was having problems tying them. I also made up some myself using Whipping thread or cotton and a short length of Amnesia Quite right Nick, My memory's are failing me, I juast rememered the jade green hoooks

Some years ago Partridge bought out D rig hooks complete with ring and the hair whipped onto the shank, they even did them in green

You have confused me to a degree. Where did you read this? did you misread it? or was it misprinted. You see My understanding is Terry uses the chod with a popup if he suspects that the bottom is chod/silt. The hinged stifflink with popup on clean bottoms and a braid link for bottom baits,both of the latter two have the lead tied to the swival[no clip] I know Terry wrote an artical for Angling times? that confused a lot of readers as he was taling about how he tied up the short section for hinged rigs and chods,and how one developed from the other, a lot of people took it to mean he uses the hinged rig on the helicopter. Hope this might be of help

Jim I wish to ask some questions without offending you I know you use leadcore and also try to teach others how to use it safely,but what is your answer to the following. Leadcorwe kinks easerly. Leadcore has a tendency for the lead to poke through the side wall. Leadcore is abrasive. Leadcore easerly snags up in snags. Just interested