moorsey

I still find it difficult to know why you would want to use any kind of leader. It seems that some kind of leader seems to be "the in thing" at the moment and carp anglers don't seem to realise that the most effective rigs are those without any leader at all. Leaders were designed to combat 2 situations. 1. Fishing over mussel beds or sharp objects. In this situation it would be necessary to use a fluoro or ready made leader but only when the lead can easily be ejected and ideally where the fish will only be left with a hook link to deal with. (heli-rig) 2. Extreme range casting. A long (24 ft ish) leader is used to absorb the initial shock of the cast. Again it is essential that the safety of the rig is well though out. What most anglers don't seem to consider is the presentation (or lack of it) that occurs with any kind of leader. Lay any heavy leader of your choice in the shallows of you clear lake and you will find that they don't follow the contours of your lake bed and that they stick out much more than a length of your main line. In short they are mainly designed to remove money from your wallet and not to improve your catch rates. Keith

Hi Gaz I've replied to your PM but for open discussion I would add that you need a lake with a house adjacent and the entire property fenced to 2m or your fish may not remain where you want them. Any area of unfenced land is regarded as public domain and will be walked and hunted at will. I would strongly suggest that the best way to get a fishery in France is to buy an existing one so that you get an immediate customer base but that all comes at a price. Rumour has it that "Clearwater" sold recently for €850,000. When calculating your potential income you need to work on a maximum of 30 weeks per year for however many anglers you expect and then don't expect to be full for all of those weeks. It's not sensible to have a high break-even point that you struggle to reach. I love the life out here and wouldn't change it for the world but I have a wonderful wife who has supported me for 42 years and is an amazing chef so that all of the meals are top notch and I still get a buzz from being woken up in the middle of the night to photograph someones first forty or fifty or 100 lb catfish. As an out and out plug I have just finished writing about my search for and setting up of Moorland Fisheries and it will be the last 22,000 words of Jason Rider's new book from M-press released in May this year so you may find that interesting. Keith

Out of interest, Jake, why are you going back to the Kamasan B775's? Cause the esp ones started getting rust on them after a cuple of days,and i can always rely on the b775 hooks,and they balance perfectly with a 16mm bait Were you aware that Kamasan and ESP are both the same company. Drennan.

I also use running rigs with slack lines and no leader and it is catching me plenty of big fish. The fact is that none of the leaders will follow the contours of the lake bed as the manufacturers suggest.

My advice may surprise some but it would be to use fluoro and forget braid for a while. The "tangleability" of all braid hook links outweigh the advantages plus fluoro is a lot less obvious and has caught me a stack of big fish. Once you are back into it in a big way start with a combi (mono and braid combination) link with the braid being kept very short and fish that with a small stick bag and you will probably have all the rigs that you need.

Kev has hit it right on the head. MAIZE. It is unlikely that the fish have been fed on pellet. French fish farmers have used maize as fish feed for centuries and there are very few carp in France that have not seen and eaten maize. From my experiences out here in France I know that any lake which is truly "virgin" fishing (truly never been fished before) will be emptied by the first angler to use maize. You will need to find the nearest "Jardinat" or similar farm supplier so that you can buy 25 Kg sacks or maize and then soak them for at least 12 hours before boiling them and piling it into the swim. It may take a couple of days for the fish to respond but over the course of the week you will virtually catch every fish in the lake. The problem is that it will only work for the first couple of sessions and then it is blown and done.

Thanks mate. Very kind words.

Good post Nick. I don't think anyone can be more contradictory than someone like me who even went to the trouble to invent a knot especially to make lead core "safe". The end result is that my knot is still the safest to allow beads and swivel to slide off of the end of the lead core but that still doesn't make the product itself safe. No matter what rig you use lead core has two distinctly "unsafe" properties:- 1. It kinks and holds that kink very easily. 2. It is prone to the core poking out through the sheath. Both of these properties will prevent beads and swivels from being able to be released and thereby making any rig a death rig. A few more things that we, as anglers, should also be aware of:- 1. Any rig, such as the running rig suggested in the magazine, which invloves attaching a hook link to the end of a section of lead core will leave the fish towing the lead core and thereby put that fish in danger. 2. One of the main "sales pitches" for using lead core is that "it pins down your line and follows the contours of the lake bed." Yet another load of bull which turns out to be totally untrue. A length of lead core is simply not heavy enough and too stiff to follow any but the smoothest of contours of any lake bed so is in fact probably costing you fish. I would offer this advice to any angler who currently uses lead core. Find a lake with something like 2 feet depth of water in a margin somewhere and lower your lead core rig into that margin. Stand above it and look down. Assuming that you are about six feet tall your eyes will now be at least seven feet from your rig and, no matter how well you have tried to match the colours, you will be able to pick out the length of lead core very easily. Now try to realise that you actually expect a carp to virtually touch that piece of lead core without noticing it and the carp will be much more "tuned" to his surroundings than you can ever be. Basically lead core should be banned from every lake and we will then have less tethered and damaged carp and more of the "odduns" put on the bank. Sorry for the rant.

Funnily enough Nick I think it may even relate to our background. Originally being from a background as an engineering draughtsman I tend to think about the mechanics of each rig.

Minus 5 last night mate but forecast is for a warmer week to come. Stupid really, it's only the middle of february and we're all expecting spring to start tomorrow.

I like that quote Yeah I can imagine Keith sitting there in the sun with his feet up, a glass of red wine and the New ATT V2 goes into vibrate mode, Mmmmmmm A hard life, but it has to be done I don't know whether I can put up with it for much longer.

I fish over silt for 90% of my fishing and I always use light leads (under 2oz) on running rigs. Believe me, if you fish slack line you won't need to worry about whether you have had a bite or not. Generally the sound of the bobbin smacking into the rod butt and the alarm vibrating your glasses off of the bivvy table is warning enough.

This is going to sound strange but, for me, the most effective way to go fishing is to stop reading angling mags and stop watching angling vids. Without the costant plugs for specific rigs you end up thinking for yourself and answering each question as it arises which leads to the best situation possible for your own fishing. Let's be honest any article or video is only relevant to those particular fish in that particular lake at that particular time in those particular conditions. The rigs etc used won't necessarily work the same the following week if conditions have changed.

Good post Jez. Having spoken to a lot of anglers who take the Korda vids as a "bible" they seem to forget that Danny (and I know him well) also has a tackle company which needs to sell as much terminal tackle as well. His videos wouldn't promote too many sales if he openly stated that you don't need lead core or safety zone leaders or lead clips etc. I would love to see a secret video made while each of the Korda lads are fishing "off camera" and using what they privately think is the most effective rig.

I totally agree Jez. I just wanted to make the point that we seem to have gone down a carp angling road where most anglers think that you must have a semi fixed or bolt rig. Personally I haven't used either of those two set ups for about 10 years except for on the river Saone where I need to drop the lead as early as possible in order to have any chance of landing the things. Keith Incidently I had a 41.12 mirror last year on a free-lined bait and it was one of the best hook holds ever.

2 questions just to add to your thoughts:- 1. Do you think that the lead actually does hook the fish? 2. Do you want to know when the fish picks up the bait or would you rather not know until it has moved the lead?

The "7qf" is the original Linear syndi waters of (N to S) smiths, hardwick, manor and st johns. The next lake down (with the island house) is the water ski lake. I did cough, er umm, fish it a bit in the nineties but only between midnight and 5 am and it did hold some real dark old warriors to just over forty. Recent rumours have it that, since the floods, it now holds a few more than it did plus some cats.

Get yourself to Moorland Fisheries...................I own it. Seriously the first advice that I would give would be to wait for at least early April before you make your first trip to France. March is often very good but the weather can be "variable" and this can affect your chances. Once we have crossed the 50/50 day/night date of 21st March the fish normally get their heads down more regularly and if you can then wait for them to settle into the habit of feeding you will stand far more chance of bagging some fish. Quite frankly if you don't catch much better than a twenty I would be surprised. Wherever you decide on, have a good trip. Keith

But why would you want to hide transparent fluoro inside a lead core sheath?? Perhaps it's easier to find when you wind in.

Zander, I totally agree with you mate. That rig cannot be as safe as a standard heli/chod rig where the beads can slide off without hindrance. The additional loop of lead core only serves to hold the top bead down the core during casting and does in fact stop the hook link from being able to spin (which is where the heli rig got its name from) so the whole rig is more prone to tangling during the cast and any tangle would then make that a potential death rig. I would just add that the original CV rig didn't use the loop of lead core as shown but a curved piece of wire with a loop at each end but even so WHY???? I also agree with your comments about "how did we ever end up using all sorts of leaders when they are not needed." The answer really is that we have been brainwashed by tackle companies (and I'm still an ESP consultant) into believing that if we just add a length of lead core, a shock leader, a flying back lead and a captive back lead (to the manufacturers all profitable items) then we are going to catch more fish. Rubbish, none of them are needed and most of them can work against you.

I have one on our "wall of shame" which we took out of a mid thirty common which is now called "the pipe smoker" because of its mouth shape. The rig is a "chod" of 4' ish and instead of beads to hold the hook link in place it has two knots tied in it.

Sorry fella but I wouldn't regard that as a particularly safe rig. The bore of the safety clip and even more especially the tail rubber would make it very likely to snag on the slightest of tangles (possibly a snap off during casting) or knotted piece of line (maybe wound round a small stick after being cut off on the lake bed). Personally I would much prefer to use a large eye swivel or runn ring in order to allow everything to "run" properly. The lead clip was designed simply to drop the lead and to do that it MUST be permanently fixed to the hook link swivel. Agree totally Keith, it isnt possible to use a leadclip properly in a proper running lead rig. Hi Jezz You should try running a fishery mate. I have had proud anglers show me how they have used a smaller than normal swivel so that the lead-clip and tubing can all slide up the line. They are convinced that this will make the rig much safer............even if they have fed a length of leader through the tubing in the first place. I despair mate. Keith

Sorry fella but I wouldn't regard that as a particularly safe rig. The bore of the safety clip and even more especially the tail rubber would make it very likely to snag on the slightest of tangles (possibly a snap off during casting) or knotted piece of line (maybe wound round a small stick after being cut off on the lake bed). Personally I would much prefer to use a large eye swivel or runn ring in order to allow everything to "run" properly. The lead clip was designed simply to drop the lead and to do that it MUST be permanently fixed to the hook link swivel.

I've been using ESP ghost with stiff riggers tied to a "D" rig for at least 6 years and have found it to be the most efficient hooking rig (even for bottom baits) that I have ever used. For some reason especially for the bigger fish.

I tried but I can't resist getting involved in this debate. I was an avid user and promoter of using lead core and even invented my own (keith moors) knot for it. However, I then found a fish tethered to a ball of weed via a legth of lead core (not mine I'm pleased to say). The lead had discharged properly bu the lead core had kinked and wound around the weed leaving the fish towing both. I managed to drag the fish out to rescue it but found that its bottom jaw had snapped under the pressure and left me having to kill it and bury it. Since then I started to examine my rigs and have now done numerous tests to try and use the most efficient and safe rigs possible. For what it's worth here are my findings. 1. The most efficient rig for bite indication is the running rig without any tubing or lead coreand fished slack or semi-slack. 2. The rig is even more efficient at hooking fish if used with light leads of 1 to 2 ounce. the reason for this is that the lead normally remains in place for the first few inches opf movement and then begins to be dragged across the lake bed. This draggin motion results in it juddering as it bounces from stone to stick to bit of weed etc and this sets the hook. 3. If used with a heavy lead it still works but the fact that the weight stays in place means that it drags the line across any bars or snags and can damage the line in so doing. 4. By fishing without any additional knots between rod and hook link the rig is the safest possible because any breakages (casting or playing fish) will normally occur at the hook lionk swivel leaving the fish with just the hook link to deal with. In short use a light running rig with a fluoro or mono hook link to prevent tangles and fish it semi slack, with light bobbins and you have the safest and most efficient rig currently possible. As an "aide" to you confidence I can say that so far that one rig has caught me 33 forties and one fifty. Hope that helps and be lucky Keith Moors