moorsey

I have done no end of tests and there is nothing to beat simple heavy mono fished slack line style. None of the tubings or "heavy" leaders follow any but the smoothest of lake beds because they simply aren't heavy enough and are too stiff. My question would have to be "why go to the trouble to find the best, least visible main line that you can buy and then thread it through a length of "hose-pipe" where it will be closest to where you want the fish to be. Exactly the same can be asked of any of the leaders. They are 3 or 4 times the diametre of your main line so will be much easier for the carp to spot. My honest advice is to stick to simple running rigs with light leads and no tubing no leaders and no back leads of any kind. Just fish with the line slack and let everyone else pay silly prices for items of tackle that they don't need. Since I switched to the simple rigs my catch rate has quadrupled. Hope that helps mate. Keith

No they're not mate but can be adapted with some pva for the chuck.

Fenboy....this is exactly what I use. It looks very neat and tidy, I'm just worrying myself recently, that the swivel isn't big enough, and it provides more resistance than I would like? What do you think? Sharpy, get yourself a pack of the enterprise rigs that Jez posted about. They are superb and add that extra bit of fish safety to your rig. Keith

Jez, they are extremely effective and give another safety edge to even the running rig mate. Keith

OK mate. Now that I have a bit more understanding of your needs I will write a specific article for you with the basics (and pictures) of what is meant by a death rig as opposed to a safe rig. I will try to cover as many of the rigs that I have discovered rather than simply saying "don't do this." Incidently I am very proud to have been asked to write this and I sincerely hope that it helps for you mate.

Hi Sam, I use running rigs with light leads all the time now and I have messed around with all sorts of beads etc and the best that I can find at the moment are the ESP "helicopter buffer bead." They are a longish bead which fits right over the swivel and i then use a quick link for attaching my hook link with a long tapered boom which covers the quick link and fits inside the opening of the buffer bead. All knots and swivel etc are then covered and keeps it nicely tangle resistant. Hope that helps mate. Keith

Hi Pali My article for Advanced is written and posted mate. I will re-write it for you and add my thoughts on hooks and lead clips so that you have a complete argument to put forward. It would be good to be infront of cameras again but I think the language may be a minor problem mate. lol. Keith Edit; Pali, I have just glanced through some of the contents of your magazine on your link and was hoorified to see them showing a "helicopter" set up with a swivel at both ends. That is an absolute guaranteed DEATH RIG mate. There is no way that the fish can ever lose the lead weight and it WILL be tethered. Please make some comment to the editor to get that changed as fast as you can.

Just to keep everyone fully up to date I have just had a phone call from Chris Logsden from MKF and he tells me that they have lost another two thirties over the last 12 months from tethered leaders. It really is time that we, as anglers, began to put the welfare of the carp in front of the "catching at all costs" mentality that some have slipped into.

I genuinely think the thicker the line the less likelihood there is of this happening and the fact a lot of anglers fish with heavy line nowadays helps. Keith I will be honest and say I never really gave that a thought but I doubt it. If it were the hooklink it would surely effect the smaller carp, as there would be more likelihood of a long hooklink reaching their sides. You have caught enough big carp to realize that a short/standard hooklink will not reach the flank. My theory is that the scales are larger on the bigger fish and there is more likelihood of the line slipping under them. You will no doubt recall that I stated I use leaders in the margins for free lining, since doing this I have not had a problem. This could be coincidence though because as I said it was not a common occurrence. However you will be pleased to know due to our discussions on leaders I have re-thought my rigs for this season, and I will no longer use leaders for this. I will try heavy fluro mainline instead. Frank Be lucky mate, it certainly works for me. I'm currently using the "Big-carp" fluoro in 16 lb BS and I am very impressed (and I have to pay for it) so if you want the contact details let me know. Keith

In which case Frank, it could easily be the hook link that has lifted the scales and not the main line. If you think of the angles of the line with a fish taking off hard from under your feet the lead is likely to have been above it but with the hook link against its flank.

Ask away Andy it's the only way that we all learn. I have used mono/fluoro straight through on light running rigs for about ten years and honestly can't ever remember seeing scales lifted by it.

More than good enough mate. Whichever lake you decide to fish simply work out whether you really need a leader and if you decide that you don't need one don't use one. They are far from essential in most situations. Keith

I think that you will also see a report in Carp-talk and on the forums on Wednesday showing a fish that was wound in attached to a leader which was not lead core. The fish was tethered and DEAD.

I still find it difficult to know why you would want to use any kind of leader. It seems that some kind of leader seems to be "the in thing" at the moment and carp anglers don't seem to realise that the most effective rigs are those without any leader at all. Leaders were designed to combat 2 situations. 1. Fishing over mussel beds or sharp objects. In this situation it would be necessary to use a fluoro or ready made leader but only when the lead can easily be ejected and ideally where the fish will only be left with a hook link to deal with. (heli-rig) 2. Extreme range casting. A long (24 ft ish) leader is used to absorb the initial shock of the cast. Again it is essential that the safety of the rig is well though out. What most anglers don't seem to consider is the presentation (or lack of it) that occurs with any kind of leader. Lay any heavy leader of your choice in the shallows of you clear lake and you will find that they don't follow the contours of your lake bed and that they stick out much more than a length of your main line. In short they are mainly designed to remove money from your wallet and not to improve your catch rates. Keith

Out of interest, Jake, why are you going back to the Kamasan B775's? Cause the esp ones started getting rust on them after a cuple of days,and i can always rely on the b775 hooks,and they balance perfectly with a 16mm bait Were you aware that Kamasan and ESP are both the same company. Drennan.

I also use running rigs with slack lines and no leader and it is catching me plenty of big fish. The fact is that none of the leaders will follow the contours of the lake bed as the manufacturers suggest.

My advice may surprise some but it would be to use fluoro and forget braid for a while. The "tangleability" of all braid hook links outweigh the advantages plus fluoro is a lot less obvious and has caught me a stack of big fish. Once you are back into it in a big way start with a combi (mono and braid combination) link with the braid being kept very short and fish that with a small stick bag and you will probably have all the rigs that you need.

Thanks mate. Very kind words.

Good post Nick. I don't think anyone can be more contradictory than someone like me who even went to the trouble to invent a knot especially to make lead core "safe". The end result is that my knot is still the safest to allow beads and swivel to slide off of the end of the lead core but that still doesn't make the product itself safe. No matter what rig you use lead core has two distinctly "unsafe" properties:- 1. It kinks and holds that kink very easily. 2. It is prone to the core poking out through the sheath. Both of these properties will prevent beads and swivels from being able to be released and thereby making any rig a death rig. A few more things that we, as anglers, should also be aware of:- 1. Any rig, such as the running rig suggested in the magazine, which invloves attaching a hook link to the end of a section of lead core will leave the fish towing the lead core and thereby put that fish in danger. 2. One of the main "sales pitches" for using lead core is that "it pins down your line and follows the contours of the lake bed." Yet another load of bull which turns out to be totally untrue. A length of lead core is simply not heavy enough and too stiff to follow any but the smoothest of contours of any lake bed so is in fact probably costing you fish. I would offer this advice to any angler who currently uses lead core. Find a lake with something like 2 feet depth of water in a margin somewhere and lower your lead core rig into that margin. Stand above it and look down. Assuming that you are about six feet tall your eyes will now be at least seven feet from your rig and, no matter how well you have tried to match the colours, you will be able to pick out the length of lead core very easily. Now try to realise that you actually expect a carp to virtually touch that piece of lead core without noticing it and the carp will be much more "tuned" to his surroundings than you can ever be. Basically lead core should be banned from every lake and we will then have less tethered and damaged carp and more of the "odduns" put on the bank. Sorry for the rant.

Funnily enough Nick I think it may even relate to our background. Originally being from a background as an engineering draughtsman I tend to think about the mechanics of each rig.

Minus 5 last night mate but forecast is for a warmer week to come. Stupid really, it's only the middle of february and we're all expecting spring to start tomorrow.

I like that quote Yeah I can imagine Keith sitting there in the sun with his feet up, a glass of red wine and the New ATT V2 goes into vibrate mode, Mmmmmmm A hard life, but it has to be done I don't know whether I can put up with it for much longer.

I fish over silt for 90% of my fishing and I always use light leads (under 2oz) on running rigs. Believe me, if you fish slack line you won't need to worry about whether you have had a bite or not. Generally the sound of the bobbin smacking into the rod butt and the alarm vibrating your glasses off of the bivvy table is warning enough.

This is going to sound strange but, for me, the most effective way to go fishing is to stop reading angling mags and stop watching angling vids. Without the costant plugs for specific rigs you end up thinking for yourself and answering each question as it arises which leads to the best situation possible for your own fishing. Let's be honest any article or video is only relevant to those particular fish in that particular lake at that particular time in those particular conditions. The rigs etc used won't necessarily work the same the following week if conditions have changed.

Good post Jez. Having spoken to a lot of anglers who take the Korda vids as a "bible" they seem to forget that Danny (and I know him well) also has a tackle company which needs to sell as much terminal tackle as well. His videos wouldn't promote too many sales if he openly stated that you don't need lead core or safety zone leaders or lead clips etc. I would love to see a secret video made while each of the Korda lads are fishing "off camera" and using what they privately think is the most effective rig.