grangemilky

I grew up in the sticks near Sleaford!

I have o idea what OP wants us to tell him about the rig. But i like the delkim discussion. I used to use my original standard delks, and still do on my 2 rod set up, that i generally only fish days with. My problem with delks, is that if they are not on the top sensativity setting, you can very slowly pull line through the delk, and it make not as much as a sound. In fact, you can do it on the max setting too. If you use braid though, its a totally different story. The problem when you have them on the max setting, you get a line bite and it screams out like a full blooded run, in the middle of the night its an absolute pain.

This post explains to us that the 'Bent hook rig' was banned from many fisheries because it caused mouth damage. Its tells us that the 360 is believed to cause damage ''due to its mechanics'' without going on to explain what the mechanics of the 360 rig actually are, ore so it goes on to explain how the bent hook rig had been known to double hook. However, no REASON has been given as to why, nor does it explain how this relates to the 360 rig. The post then goes on to explain that the fox series 5, and indeed similar hook patterns have been said to cause mouth damage, he even states that the evidence is not solid. He even states that ''The use of a longshank hook has always been linked to mouth damage to smaller carp. Whether its true or not? Well thats open to speculation, the old bent hook was brutal, but the 360 rig is well popular and well used, if it was as damaging as the old bent hook rig was, then we would know by now'' This post is not for ,nor against the 360 rig, he is merely telling us why 'they' believe that the 360 rig causes damage. There are no facts expressed nor REASONS as to why the 360 rig causes damage. However, long shank hooks have been brought into question, due to the length of the shank, the fulcrum point is undeniably much further back, so any movement at the eye whilst playing the fish gets exaggerated at the point where the hook enters the mouth. Still, many many people use long shank hooks without an issue. so, what did this post gives us an incite into peoples opinions. It tells us that the bent hook rig caused damage. Undeniable. It also tells us that some people think that long-shank hooks cause damage. So from this we can undeniably come to the conclusion that the only thing about a 360 rig, is the use of a long shank hook. So ,with a shorter hook it would be safe? Right? This post tells us again, that the bent hook rig causes damage. It also implies that the 360 was designed to be a much safer version of the bent hook rig. He tells us that he thinks that a lot of damage is causes by lazy unhooking. This it's self is not fault of the rig, just the person using it. He said he thinks its probably been said it causes damage because its used on waters for where it was not designed, but doesnt really give a reason as to why it would cause damage. I have asked for a REASON for why it causes damage. These posts are great, and informative, but it does not at any point state why the rig it's self causes damage, and you yourself have had little imput more than stating that it causes damage, with little or no facts to back it up. Where is this truth? Honestly, i have asked one simple question all the way through this thread, and that is for a REASON that it causes damage. You have failed to answer this, and now, because you cannot answer, you are attempting to suggest that because i don't agree with you don't care about the welfare of the fish? I certainly don't know what bandwagon i could be on, but if its the bandwagon that doesn't believe things without being given facts, than yeah im sat right up front driving the thing. You stated earlier in this thread i believe, that someone joined your water, was using the 360 rig, ad was causing mouth damage. All we can get from this FACT, is that someone was causing mouth damage. There is no fact you have stated as to why it must be the rig causing damage, and not the angler in question. I have explained my reasons as to why i think it causes damage, because the eye of the hook gets caught in the landing net mesh. It is well documented that this is the reason that it causes damage. This can be avoided with a seamless hook, or a bit of shrink tube. If you actually provide some facts, i will happily accept it causes damage for other reasons, but as to date you have not.

Have you actually read either of those? Neither give a definitive answer, nor fight your case very well. If I ever go to court, remind me not to employ you as my lawyer.

I have asked you time and time again to provide me with where anyone has explained WHY they cause damage, to no avail.

:yawn:

I used to fish pit 6 a little bit, but a long time ago now, so cant be of any help!

I don't think the temps are anywhere near spawning, not near me anyway. The perch and the bream may well ave started though, and the carp are probably mopping all of that up! Most lakes seem to have shut up shop over the last week.

That's a funny looking dog, i think it might be broken.

For the love of god can a mod change the title. I know my spelling isn't great at the best of times, but now this thread is gaining momentum, its really starting to grate on me

They used to allow motorhomes down the train line side of the A1 pits!

When i was a young lad, we cycled 4 miles to the local drain, with our beach caster rods, coupled up with very miss matched Michel 300 reels, bright blue 30lb line and a box of rusty spinners. First cast my mate put a rusty treble through his ear Crushed the and pulled it back out. No infection!

Water is far to thin to ever be a decent lubricant. Put your leg in the water, and rub leadcore back and forth over your skin. Hurts doesn't it. Now try the same with rig tubing, or a thick mainline. Whilst your there, try 20lb whiplash braid too!

100% of rigs i use cause mouth damage

This is way off topic, and not really needed on this thread.......However, if someone put a hook and line in your mouth, would you pull against it?

But why does it cause damage?

Wait...when you say braid slips through, are you tying the knot with the fluro, or with the braid?

I had a few Albright knots slip before, turned out I was doing the knot wrong! I didn't have the tag end going through the loop in the same direction as the line initially enters. After that, never had an issus at all.

What has been said? Where are the facts man! Where are the facts!

I've read the links several times now, and can't see any decent information in them. It's jut people saying it causes damage, but giving no reason as to why, and other people who use it saying they have never seen any mouth damage. Other than the issue with the hook eye getting stuck in the landing net mesh ripping the mouth, which can easily be solved with shrink tube, I really don't see what the issue is.

But where is the proof where are the facts and reasons!?!?

Fair enough, horses for courses. lots of rigs seem to have their for and against. I've never seen a real issue caused by it n real life. Does any one have any real reason that it supposedly causes damage, those threads just seem to condemn it, with seemigly little more information other that they hear it causes damage. I don't disagree that it might do, but if tied correctly, i see no reason that it is any worse than the majority of rigs out there.

Not at all. If set up correctly ,why would it be any more unsafe? The line is pulled directly opposite the bend of the hook, where is the issue?