grangemilky

Albright knot. Plenty of tutorials on you tube.

I think he means that 'Korda' never claimed to have invented them, but people who were korda consultants did.

I used the 'silt rig' or 'paternoster' without leadcore, long before korda 'invented' the naked chod, same same with the 'KD rig' infact i never realised 'KD' was a thing, its just the way some guys tied knotless knots. Both rigs i picked up from people who had been using for yonks! Can't say i hate Kordda for trying it o though. Enough people believe them.

...IMO of course...your line isn't coming to budge an inch at your indicator untill the hook has pricked. So by that, the lead can have no impact on the positioning of the hookhold. As has been mentioned previously, with the line in the ridclip, will give a sudden jot to bury the hook further. That said, the resistance of the line through the water as the fish tries to move off, will push the hook home. IMO if line is comming off your spool, no matter how loose your spool is, the hook is pushed right in, and it's the positioning of the initial prick that decides if its going to be a good hookhold or not. The resistance of a fluro, or sinking braid through water is much higher, and IMO gives better hoiking potential. It's all speculation on my behalf, and I'm not an expert on fluid dynamics, but I personally don't like running rigs with mono!

If you had the clutch set tight, the fish would be at stale mate, indicator fully at the top, and able to kite in a complete semi-circle without any more indication.

Problem with a heavy lead and a running rig IMO is that the lead DOESNT move. A nice light lead, as long a the resistance of pulling the indicator to the top is less weight, then you will get indication before the lead moves. Once the indicator is at the top the lead may well move, but at which time you have had more than enough positive indication to have lifted into it. With a heavy lead, even when the indicator is at the top, it will be less resistance for the reel to start giving off line, and the lead stay completely still. You can end up with a fish running 40 yards one way before you get to it, the fish will one way....your lead will be 40 yards in a different direction in the middle of your line! That''s my story anyway, and I'm sticking to it.

Sorry I should have read more, you did explain... The lead plays no part in the position if the hookhold one bit IMO. Even on a 4oz inline, with a 3 inch hooklink, I think the hook has pricked before the weight if the lead is touched. All the lead does is drive the hook in further. IMO the problem is all in the length and position of the hair.

I think your lead is more than suitable, as long as you are using a light indicator, and unrelated to the hookhold. How long is the hair, and where does it separate from the hook? What in getting at, is try a shortish hair, with a piece if silicone holding the hair to oppasite where the barb would be. I've had some horrific hook holds with long hairs an 'KD' rigs.

you're right there!

Washing out isn't just colour though. Baits that are soft, and swelled up aren't something that can be replicated out the bag.

Might want to quote him, now it looks like you are saying that to me

if they were that colour to start with, they wouldn't be washed out! Ever fished a big bed of boilies, and had a big hit around 24/48hs after baiting? Washing them out is only replicating that situation, but on day one. TBH if you are going to wash out baits, you want it to be baits that the fish see regularly, either because its something terrible, like the cell, or because you pre-bait it regularly. You need something that the fish will recognise as having been in the water for considerable time, and be much safer. IMO its a tactic only for low stocked places, on a well stocked place with a lot of smaller fish, its just a waste of time and money.

I have. I would make sure you are doing it with a bait that they are used to seeing though.

I have o idea what OP wants us to tell him about the rig. But i like the delkim discussion. I used to use my original standard delks, and still do on my 2 rod set up, that i generally only fish days with. My problem with delks, is that if they are not on the top sensativity setting, you can very slowly pull line through the delk, and it make not as much as a sound. In fact, you can do it on the max setting too. If you use braid though, its a totally different story. The problem when you have them on the max setting, you get a line bite and it screams out like a full blooded run, in the middle of the night its an absolute pain.

This post explains to us that the 'Bent hook rig' was banned from many fisheries because it caused mouth damage. Its tells us that the 360 is believed to cause damage ''due to its mechanics'' without going on to explain what the mechanics of the 360 rig actually are, ore so it goes on to explain how the bent hook rig had been known to double hook. However, no REASON has been given as to why, nor does it explain how this relates to the 360 rig. The post then goes on to explain that the fox series 5, and indeed similar hook patterns have been said to cause mouth damage, he even states that the evidence is not solid. He even states that ''The use of a longshank hook has always been linked to mouth damage to smaller carp. Whether its true or not? Well thats open to speculation, the old bent hook was brutal, but the 360 rig is well popular and well used, if it was as damaging as the old bent hook rig was, then we would know by now'' This post is not for ,nor against the 360 rig, he is merely telling us why 'they' believe that the 360 rig causes damage. There are no facts expressed nor REASONS as to why the 360 rig causes damage. However, long shank hooks have been brought into question, due to the length of the shank, the fulcrum point is undeniably much further back, so any movement at the eye whilst playing the fish gets exaggerated at the point where the hook enters the mouth. Still, many many people use long shank hooks without an issue. so, what did this post gives us an incite into peoples opinions. It tells us that the bent hook rig caused damage. Undeniable. It also tells us that some people think that long-shank hooks cause damage. So from this we can undeniably come to the conclusion that the only thing about a 360 rig, is the use of a long shank hook. So ,with a shorter hook it would be safe? Right? This post tells us again, that the bent hook rig causes damage. It also implies that the 360 was designed to be a much safer version of the bent hook rig. He tells us that he thinks that a lot of damage is causes by lazy unhooking. This it's self is not fault of the rig, just the person using it. He said he thinks its probably been said it causes damage because its used on waters for where it was not designed, but doesnt really give a reason as to why it would cause damage. I have asked for a REASON for why it causes damage. These posts are great, and informative, but it does not at any point state why the rig it's self causes damage, and you yourself have had little imput more than stating that it causes damage, with little or no facts to back it up. Where is this truth? Honestly, i have asked one simple question all the way through this thread, and that is for a REASON that it causes damage. You have failed to answer this, and now, because you cannot answer, you are attempting to suggest that because i don't agree with you don't care about the welfare of the fish? I certainly don't know what bandwagon i could be on, but if its the bandwagon that doesn't believe things without being given facts, than yeah im sat right up front driving the thing. You stated earlier in this thread i believe, that someone joined your water, was using the 360 rig, ad was causing mouth damage. All we can get from this FACT, is that someone was causing mouth damage. There is no fact you have stated as to why it must be the rig causing damage, and not the angler in question. I have explained my reasons as to why i think it causes damage, because the eye of the hook gets caught in the landing net mesh. It is well documented that this is the reason that it causes damage. This can be avoided with a seamless hook, or a bit of shrink tube. If you actually provide some facts, i will happily accept it causes damage for other reasons, but as to date you have not.

Have you actually read either of those? Neither give a definitive answer, nor fight your case very well. If I ever go to court, remind me not to employ you as my lawyer.

I have asked you time and time again to provide me with where anyone has explained WHY they cause damage, to no avail.

:yawn:

That's a funny looking dog, i think it might be broken.

For the love of god can a mod change the title. I know my spelling isn't great at the best of times, but now this thread is gaining momentum, its really starting to grate on me

When i was a young lad, we cycled 4 miles to the local drain, with our beach caster rods, coupled up with very miss matched Michel 300 reels, bright blue 30lb line and a box of rusty spinners. First cast my mate put a rusty treble through his ear Crushed the and pulled it back out. No infection!

Water is far to thin to ever be a decent lubricant. Put your leg in the water, and rub leadcore back and forth over your skin. Hurts doesn't it. Now try the same with rig tubing, or a thick mainline. Whilst your there, try 20lb whiplash braid too!

100% of rigs i use cause mouth damage