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Thanks Nick what I meant when I asked was what % would I need when adding to my basemix to make a matching pop up? I know it's not going to be exact and basemix dependant I was just looking to see if I could make a food bait pop up with it. AI isn't perfect but it can be a good tool, I've made loads of basemixes from scratch with it just for fun and I would be happy using some of them.

Cor, don't do Ai, it grabs information that is frequently incorrect, lol. Joking aside, it does get facts wrong sometimes, basically double check using another source, preferably not Google based, as Google can have an agenda. (Don't get me started on that one!) I was using sodium caseinate to make buoyant pop-ups so 50% base mix and 50% sodium caseinate was right for me, I wanted the buoyancy. As an ingredient in a base mix 10% is probably the maximum. I know that a few people have overdone it unintentionally in a finished bait and had floating freebies. I preferred calcium caseinate in any of my standard base mixes, more to do with cost as sodium caseinate is about 10% more expensive. As a specific ingredient in hookbaits it was bearable.

Well the Big Common would be the icing yes, but No the remaining target on my syndi is a 50 common 'white tips' so the yellows will be coming out, thinking of maize or corn as feed possibly. On the syndi I've concluded that baited patches are not the one, Kingy and Sandmartin PVA sticks and maybe a few with the stick, cannot see me using much bait this year TBH but you never know

Do you think 10% added to 90% basemix would be enough make a hookbait buoyant though? Or you do you think that means max inclusion alongside other ingredients? I can't help thinking if you could make match the hatch pop ups with 10% everyone would use that tbh.

I can't say I pay too much attention to branding. The value of branding is down to one's individual perception based on the product and, I hate to say it, marketing. Most of what I would consider to be 'premium brands' offer their fair share of stuff I'd never use but I'd not want to devalue any brand based on that fact (apart from Nash, obviously 😂). A brand is just a name for a company imo. Do I think SHB make decent/premium hookbaits? Yes, absolutely. I only use them for certain applications, but I've done so for probably 10 years + now. They have caught me some very special fish and that breeds confidence. Confidence is as important as anything in carp angling imo.

Do you consider SHB a premium brand or not ?

AA baits suggests 10% for pop ups Sodium Caseinate is a milk protein derived from using sodium to remove the protein content from milk. It has a protein content in excess of 96% and makes a very functional binder. Being one of the lightest of the milk proteins caution should be used as to the inclusion levels as 10% plus can make baits buoyant. Recommend inclusion level is up to 10% – (100g) per kg base mix.

Yeah I think with egg albumen it would have made them less soluble and firmer but yeah I've learnt I'm not going to bother with cork dust,the AA Baits wafter mix seems pretty good so will use that if I need bright or alternate wafters but tbh i will probably just add some pop up mix next time to my basemix to make wafters. Keep it simple and all that. Is 50% sodium caseinate not too high? I just used Copilot and it recommented 20% max? I know it's AI but it does seem quite useful for stuff like this? I know it also might be wrong though 😂

You made the discovery that cork dust absorbs water, and expands allowing the bait to break down. I pretty much just stuck to pop-up mix, or with standard base mix adding around 50% sodium caseinate after sieving it.

Many premium brands as @yonny has said are pop-up mix and flavour, that could be any brand, although there are some that have that something. Garlic is one of those additions that can really put fish on the bank, but it is finding the garlic that works; in pop-ups I never found powdered versions work, possibly not enough smell, and I am not scientific enough to work it out, but in a food bait they may work well. Oh those coatings can be fun to make, can be as simple as rolling dried baits in egg, then rolling in powder. Funnily enough I have caught far more on a food bait equivalent than on a yellow pop-up on most waters. The yellow pop-up produced fish on 'small fish' waters, but not on big fish venues, although the past couple of years did produce stocked fish rather than original fish on the syndicate. Thinking back to various 25lb+ commons I have caught, none came on yellow baits, all but one were on snowman baits, food bait with an identical coloured pop-up (not necessarily same flavour), the one that didn't was on a single 15mm food bait. As an add, I did remove the 'disagreement', not going to have it get nasty. Express an opinion, give your point and don't have a go.

Maybe keep at least one on a yellow all year then, is that "the big common" 😍 I do kind of agree with the give them a choice kind of hookbait still though. Maybe just tone it down a bit later on in the year, and go for something similar but different if that makes sense. At times I've done quite well on the brown proper jobs. Something a little different but not greatly. Also I've never been one to use the same hookbait on all 3 rods, so I can't ever be conclusive about it 😂

I agree with the common thing they do seem to go for yellow a lot and I don't use yellow much and catch mainly mirrors, gonna use this as I actually want to target a big common this year. Underwater vids aside, I just wouldn't consider using brights after spring on a busy water where they see everything all the time, 90% anglers on brights with ronnies all year round says to me AVOID THIS I think you'll catch more over a season on match the hatch, just my opinion though👍

I think that was his go to for a long time but the underwaters have definately made him question it a bit.But I can't speak for him. Thing is Kev without a camera we probably won't know half the times we get done or a carp won't take a bait. We can only go onthe ones we catch. (or not 😂) so the more you use a bright or match the hatch one the more you will catch on them 😬 Another thing I gleaned from a podcast was to change hookbait colour depending on whether you were targetting a mirror or common. Now when I look at my big common captures they have been on a yellow pop up. Maybe to catch the bigger mirrors I need a match the hatch or duller bait. The theory was that commons are more sight feeders than mirrors. Again Just a theory but I might use more match the hatch type hookbaits this year as I want to catch the big mirrors.

Does he then miss out on all the fish that avoid a bright one, all his eggs in one basket? There are lakes and times of year that I'd use a bright, other lakes where I wouldn't dream of it. 🤷‍♂️ Surely he has seen thousands of carp spook off brights on camera.

Something else that sticks with me is Elliot Grays description of what he wants his hookbait to achieve and that is to give the fish a choice of whether to take it or not. He makes his hookbaits a blatent pink pop up or wafter and by making it the most clearly visible highest attraction bait in the swim. The fish then has the choice. I can see these pop ups doing the same sort of job.

I agree Elmo 👍

I've not used them myself, they do seem to catch some decent fish though if you look at the catch reports. Now I am making my own bait I know I will probably get into making up some "specials" with coatings and crusts etc at some point, and can see how the process they use makes them the price they are. They seem well thought out IMO and have learnt it's not usually the bait that is the reason for not catching it's usually location, application and procrastination are the main factors for blanking.

If you like a garlic bait, Urban baits - absolutely stink and very reliable bouyancy, great baits - was using these with the Premier Aminos Garlic and Tuna. MEGA!

*In your opinion..... In my opinion, this statement is a mile off. Yes, there are plenty of great hookbaits available, but most 'premium' brands are to this day just a load of pop up mix and flavouring. While imo there is actually a place for such hookbaits, for me they cannot compare to a well crafted buoyant food bait. To add balance to the thread, I've tried the garlics and several versions of the S2. Did well on all of them. Decent hookbaits imo.

They're no better or worse than any other 'premium' brand. I've tried 3 types, caught on the first pot, absolutely stuff all on the subsequent purchases, same lake, same spots. Bloke goes bananas on there if you don't sing his praises, what epic ranting.

I used to fish some of the South Cerney waters many years, mainly Ham Pool, Bradley's and Hill's for the tench before Watermark took the last two over. The Bailiff they had then was a annoying old curmudgeon and he used to check my ticket every single time I was there. I think it was a 2 rod rule then and I had an old pike rod set up with Heath Robinson spod made out of an old washing up bottle. The good old days, if you wanted something, you had to make it, not like the kids of today........(better stop there, I'm sounding like one myself!) After he checked my ticket, he shouted that it was a 2 rod rule and so I fired back at him that it was a spod rod and he turned away laughing to himself - the old [censored] got me! One day when he was in a more agreeable mood he told me a funny story. At Ham Pool there was a club house and bar and it included a fruit machine and one of his jobs was to empty the cash from it. You could buy day tickets on the bank then and for juniors it was £1 in advance or £2 on the bank - I did say it was a long time ago! Anyway he came across 2 lads and they came out with the old "I've only got a £50 note trick". Quick as a flash, he went to his van and dumped £46 in pound coins on them! I bet they didn't try that again!

I thought it had a spot on the test crew😀

hi, i moved to gloucester five years ago, and after fishing the scac waters (nightmare lol!) joined HS last spring.. full 1 year ticket cost me 680 quid - in my eyes a total ripoff, before folks pipe up here on the price, i was in a fishing club in my previous area for 30 years, 3 lakes no publicly, carp to 50+ lb in one pit, midweek hardly anyone fishing, all in for £370 per year that's todays price! and yeah its dead mans shoes to get in, and i jacked it lol as its too far to travel from glos..... anyways..though I've done OK on HS fish wise, i hate the place! reason being first up, the head bailiff is an absolute ******* (ask anyone who fishes it they will say the same thing) the other bailiffs are fine, and even though they know you have a ticket they check every time you set up! place is a gloried day ticket venue! they have many events so they close it so you can't fish it, essentially at weekends. on the plus side, the lake is nice, 90% of anglers are OK, you get the odd [censored] but nothing compared to the muppets on scac waters! i won't be renewing, probably this spring start looking at canals & rivers as the whole area carp fishing wise seems to be..who you know..or dead mans shoes, unless someone can tell me different? anyways apologies for moaning lol!

I should talk about my recent failure with pop ups 🤣they looked and smelt nice I wanted to try and make some super buoyant match the hatch type pop ups, so I went with 50/50 mix of base mix and polaris, then added 10% cork granules, my flavour combo was banging btw 5ml scopex, 20 drops each of black pepper and bergamot essential oil. Very happy with that. But they didn't really pop up that well and also after 12 hours in water they went soft like a pellet 🤣 I have since bought some AA Baits super buoyant fishmeal pop up mix and my next batch will use the same flavour combo Do any of you add egg albumen into a pop up mix? I think my last mix needed it but I've gone off cork dust so will just be using the pop up mix next time(although I have read this mix can take up to 30% regular base mix and still pop up so will experiment) Just as an FYI I've now made a couple of mixes of the AA Baits Tropaminamino boilies and now they are dried they are still quite soft and smell like a proper carp catcher, I'm starting to really enjoy the process of baitmaking, need to get set up to upscale it a bit but I'm going to have bait no one else is using and that's exciting to me.

Guys hes a great one from back in the old school happy days on yately, video only recently uploaded!