toby_mills Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hi guys I've been fishing a swim at long range over the back of a bar. It drops into a nice channel from say 2ft - 8ft and I know its where alot of the biggest fish are on this particular lake. Are there any recommended rigs or setups for long distance. I have been fishing a standard rig I tie with 15lb Merlin braid, about 4-5 inches long to avoid tangles with a size 6 Korda curve shanked hook. My problem is I am obviously not getting a good hook up as I am losing most of the fish here, including a good named 30 which would of been my first Most of the time I get a screaming run and a few minutes of playing the fish and then the hook pulls. Of the fish I am landing, 1 had a very poor hook hold in the top of the mouth!? I am fishing the same rig on closer range rods and not having the same problems. I also thought maybe my strike at long range with the bar between me and the fish may be affecting the hook hold? Sorry for the long winded question. Any advice would be appreciated I am just getting back into my fishing after a 8 year gap so I having to re-learn things all over... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 a few questions how far out are you fishing? what lead set up are you using? what size lead? are you fishing tight or slack lining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toby_mills Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 At a guess maybe 120+yrds (i'm not good with distances but its about the maximum i can hit) I'm using 12ft 2 3/4lb test rods, 12lb line and 2 3/4 0z leads I have been using a standard bolt rig and keeping the line tight whilst using the minimum weight on my swingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 not sure,maybe a heavier lead, your strike could be something to look at, over that distance you have a lot of line to pick first, (unless your on braid)do reel down to the fish? or pick rod up and strike??not that you need to strike with bolt rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toby_mills Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 mmm I thought the bolt rig set the hook too, I will def try a heavier lead and see how that goes. most of the runs have been screamers so just disengaging the baitrunner and lifting the rod puts me in contact with the fish. the one time I did try a heavier strike I had a storming run (which I assumed meant the fish had already caught the hook) and as I struck the hook pulled instantly!! strange. anyway mate thanks for your thoughts... back to the drawing board for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hi guys I've been fishing a swim at long range over the back of a bar. It drops into a nice channel from say 2ft - 8ft and I know its where alot of the biggest fish are on this particular lake. Are there any recommended rigs or setups for long distance. I have been fishing a standard rig I tie with 15lb Merlin braid, about 4-5 inches long to avoid tangles with a size 6 Korda curve shanked hook. My problem is I am obviously not getting a good hook up as I am losing most of the fish here, including a good named 30 which would of been my first Most of the time I get a screaming run and a few minutes of playing the fish and then the hook pulls. Of the fish I am landing, 1 had a very poor hook hold in the top of the mouth!? I am fishing the same rig on closer range rods and not having the same problems. I also thought maybe my strike at long range with the bar between me and the fish may be affecting the hook hold? Sorry for the long winded question. Any advice would be appreciated I am just getting back into my fishing after a 8 year gap so I having to re-learn things all over... Cheers Long range fishing you need to be as streamlined and as tidy as possible. The same rigs should work, but the hookpulls may be down to not having enough feed at the long range area. You may not be getting the fish so confident in their feeding, and so they are not so comfortable taking the bait. You might need to increase the weight on the indicator, or go the other way, and if possible use Running leads and slack lines. Not always practical at range I know, but it can work very well. Probably the tidiest and most streamlined lead set-up for long range is a helicopter set-up. The lead tows everything behind it. It could possibly be that your braid rigs are tangling at that sort of distance, and you don't know about it. It may even be that you are striking at line bites, and at that range you are feeling like you are hooking a fish, and then it "gets lost". The one thing I would do is usually drop the hooksize, or lengthen the hair or rig length when I start losing fish to hookpulls. So much to potentially be wrong, and so little information really as each water is different, but if you can get more bait out there see if that makes any difference first if the same rig works closer in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toby_mills Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 cool thanks alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zander1 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Try a different brand of hooks, i have lost more carp on korda hooks than any other brand!? Fox armor points on the other hand... May not make any difference to you at all but could be worth a try??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyljunkie Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Try a different brand of hooks, i have lost more carp on korda hooks than any other brand!? Fox armor points on the other hand... May not make any difference to you at all but could be worth a try??? Il second that !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marker Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 interesting thread, i've suffered this problem myself in the past, a series of hookpulls and missed runs at maximum range. i never did solve the problem but i'm inclined to go with the lack of bait idea as i was fishing beyond baiting range with single hookbaits for pressured fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 im not to sure on the lack of bait theory, if its singles the fish has to decide to take it or leave it, if it spooks while taking it, then is that not a rig problem the extra pressure is something where id expect singles to work better than heavy baiting, the is a story i heard about kingfisher lake. the fish were coming out less and less, boats the were the norm and lots of bait was going in, the fish were puting on weight but they not getting caught. then the buzz spread around about how well zigs and singles were pulling out the lumps and this started to become the norm, untill the weights started dropping. tony started getting a little edgy and it was talked about banning zigs. but he didnt and from what i see on my last visit the bait is going in again,only more of a spread then tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 im not to sure on the lack of bait theory, if its singles the fish has to decide to take it or leave it, if it spooks while taking it, then is that not a rig problem the extra pressure is something where id expect singles to work better than heavy baiting, the is a story i heard about kingfisher lake. the fish were coming out less and less, boats the were the norm and lots of bait was going in, the fish were puting on weight but they not getting caught. then the buzz spread around about how well zigs and singles were pulling out the lumps and this started to become the norm, untill the weights started dropping. tony started getting a little edgy and it was talked about banning zigs. but he didnt and from what i see on my last visit the bait is going in again,only more of a spread then tight. Beanz, The lack of bait may only be a theory, but at range even with a bait boat, it is very difficult to get freebies around the hookbait. With a throwing stick boilies can miss by miles; well as much as 10 metres and it may look close to the marker float, add into that the drift, which even a bait boat can't cover, as bait drops down from a boat it still spreads over a wide area (Carpology article, January this year). A spod does not guarantee getting close. Those singles that were fished, may be genuine attempts at singles, but I reckon in many cases it was the over-flavoured pop-ups, and many were fishing single bottom baits anyway, without intending to. A current phenomenon in fishing is that we all bait up with pellets, particles, spod mix, but very rarely use Food source boilies in our mix (most Dynamite Shelfies are NOT food source, but part of a package), and very few are actually fishing a correctly pre-baited and applied food source. The food source boilie fished as a single hookbait may well continue to work if they are being regularly baited up with (https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=27808) At range you have to get the best out of your rig, the lack of indication means that by the time you get the bleep on your buzzer, you only get the indication from fish that take the bait and charge off. A single bleep may be missed as it is lost through the line stretch. At range say 100metres, you could possibly not get indication until the fish has reached 120metres (assuming 20% mono stretch), and even the carp can move the lead 20% in any direction until your (HEAVY) indicator pulls the line down on a drop back, or until the stretch is taken up as the fish runs away from you. It is actually why I prefer running rigs wherever possible. Even at range, there is no tension holding the line, and because the line is not under pressure that line can be pulled through a run ring, so you still get a "proper" run. I have seen even at relatively short ranges a semi-fixed lead pulled in a perfect arc, no movement on the indicator, and no sound from the buzzer. So to my view, you need an absolutely reliable 100% sharp hook, an effective hooking rig, which will change from water to water, but it has to be tangle free. Braids can be a 'mare to fish at long range, unless you can guarantee that they won't tangle, which can be done with the use of Kryston Superstiff. The shorter the rig, then the less chance you have of tangles as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fenboy Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I personally would swap the braid ,for a coated version my current favourite being jelle wire ,i would also increase the length to around 9-10 inches and leave around a 3/4 inch gap between my bait and hook bend ,i would fish this on a running lead using the smallest i could get away with to reach the spot. I in contrast to some really rate the korda kurve hooks and if i have lost any fish to hookpulls i cant recall it, i have infact landed 3 30lb plus catfish from quite a snaggy little lake this season on size 10 kurves and i use 3 1/4 tc rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules007 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 in this situation i would use running lead with slack line, 6 inch flourocarbon rig with raptor hook (they are so sharp) and criticcally balanced pop up, shot just under the bait. This rig should not tangle, the balanced pop up should allow a firm take, and running lead will give good bite detection, all being well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpologist09 Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Well your using a Curve shank hook try a Korda Long Shank Hooh size 8 using a blow back Rig. I have used longshank hooks for sometime now and had a 100% hook rate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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