Best rig for carp that mouth and drop baits immediately?

[salokcinnodrog]

I just needed some gas

 

These carp are doing my nut. Laugh at at anything floating, wont take this, wont take that, wont take pop-ups, i am beginning to wonder if they eat at all - the place also has an abnormal number of frogs and toads Everywhere you walk they are hopping off the path. I am on the point of sticking a 2/0 in one and lobbing it out there

 

Anyway, this is slightly off the point of the thread. Clearly I will have to try something else and I think it is the rig thats the problem. Try try try again. I am going to critically balance some red corn over some died corn next time - goes a bit against the grain using plastic corn but needs must I am afraid.

 

yes noknot, it will be your rig next time.

 

Try going back to Naturals

I can think of a couple of waters where the larger Carp refuse boilies and only eat natural baits like maggots and worms.

[thedddjjj]

I did wonder about that today, they definately feed in the margins on the millions of bullrushes so must be eating snails and similar kinda stuff. It was hot today though and they spent most of the time just cruising around as you would expect really.

 

I will try that tho, thanks. A trip to the parents to raid the compost mound - no wonder they say anglers never grow up

[misterrun]

I did wonder about that today, they definately feed in the margins on the millions of bullrushes so must be eating snails and similar kinda stuff. It was hot today though and they spent most of the time just cruising around as you would expect really.

 

I will try that tho, thanks. A trip to the parents to raid the compost mound - no wonder they say anglers never grow up

 

 

You don't think they may be ready to spawn, do you?

[stoogi]

they definately feed in the margins on the millions of bullrushes so must be eating snails and similar kinda stuff.

 

Find a snail shell, fill it with paste & hair rig it

[thedddjjj]

No I think they already have, the perch are going nuts chasing fry around. To be honest, this was meant to be a bit of light relief. The carp are not really very big, nor is the lake - which I am not embarrassed to say. It is not worth the time and effort unless you have the sort of personality that doesn't like to be outwitted by a fish. I have dangled bread on their nose today to be flatly ignored and they swim casually out the way, tried all sorts of things over the past few weeks and it is rapidly becoming one of the hardest lakes I have ever fished. I have absolutely no idea why which makes it all the more frustrating. Nobody bothers with it, clearly the fish are older than they look and have not got the room to grow that enormous, there is only 8 of them in about 2 acres, nothing else except perch, it goes to about 10 foot deep, thats all.

But they just wont have it, nothing interests them at all. I can honestly say i have never seen fish, basically that small (under 20lb bar maybe 1 of them) that are so unbelievably clued up. They are also terribly terribly shy, the water is crystal clear, they know what a rod is...its harder than the flamin pit I was originally looking for a bit of light relief from. The bottom is also covered in some kind of blackish stringy blanket chod that clings to everything which is why I am on pop-ups - which from todays experiment they wont have either. They are nice and black though thats why I always say size is not the be all and end all.

[daleg2008]

I think carp like that aren't clued up so to speak. its not like pressured carp where you need to perfect your rig to get a bite. did you say they ate your boilies? i think it comes down to them not being fished for so much. it may sound weird, but i think pressured lakes are easier to catch out of than one you are on now, where the carp havent came into contact with many hooks. mainly because man made baits have become a dietry need for pressured carp and eventually will take one. on the lake you are fishing they are thriving so well they dont really need to eat your bait. i reckon a natural is the way to go on a nice long hooklink laying across the choddy weed. i would actually love to fish somewhere like that though.

[nafy118]

let this rattle your brains -

 

watch closely at 1min 30 at the fish swimming under the leader and not spooking, and also around 3.30/4 mins at how the lead sits on the lake bed

[daleg2008]

Also have you tried baiting one spot regurlaly?

[jsouth]

I know that damaging the mouth of the carp with the scorpion rig has been mentioned already in this thread, but I am concerned that foul hooking in general would be high with this rig? Even fishing semi fixed rigs with short hooklengths I have experienced too many foul hookings (chest, eye, fins...) simply from the fish brushing across the rig or possibly even while thrashing about after feeling the hook.

 

If it weren't for the fact that I have pretty much eliminated the chance for the carp swallowing the hook I would switch back to a running rig. Can anyone share any more experiences with the Scorpion Rig although honestly I have been trying to make my rig less complicated(working on getting rid of the swivel at the moment).

[levigsp]

I think carp like that aren't clued up so to speak. its not like pressured carp where you need to perfect your rig to get a bite. did you say they ate your boilies? i think it comes down to them not being fished for so much. it may sound weird, but i think pressured lakes are easier to catch out of than one you are on now, where the carp havent came into contact with many hooks. mainly because man made baits have become a dietry need for pressured carp and eventually will take one. on the lake you are fishing they are thriving so well they dont really need to eat your bait. i reckon a natural is the way to go on a nice long hooklink laying across the choddy weed. i would actually love to fish somewhere like that though.

I think it is exactly the opposite.

There is a HUGE difference to highly pressured water and highly stocked water.

These fish are educated because they have been under pressure at some time, so they realize hooks are dangerous.

That is why they cleaned up all the bait and not his hook bait.

One heavily stocked waters you can get the fish competing for food, as they need the feed as you rightly point out, so even if educated they are more likely to make a mistake.

On EVERY unfished lake I have had fortune to fish, once feeding the fish would pickup literally any hook bait, no matter how crude.

Please do not confuse pressure and stock.

Frank

[levigsp]

I know that damaging the mouth of the carp with the scorpion rig has been mentioned already in this thread, but I am concerned that foul hooking in general would be high with this rig? Even fishing semi fixed rigs with short hooklengths I have experienced too many foul hookings (chest, eye, fins...) simply from the fish brushing across the rig or possibly even while thrashing about after feeling the hook.

 

If it weren't for the fact that I have pretty much eliminated the chance for the carp swallowing the hook I would switch back to a running rig. Can anyone share any more experiences with the Scorpion Rig although honestly I have been trying to make my rig less complicated(working on getting rid of the swivel at the moment).

Hi approx 40 years of fishing the lead and I have NEVER foul hook a carp, no matter what the rig.

I MUST be doing something wrong

[thedddjjj]

I think carp like that aren't clued up so to speak. its not like pressured carp where you need to perfect your rig to get a bite. did you say they ate your boilies? i think it comes down to them not being fished for so much. it may sound weird, but i think pressured lakes are easier to catch out of than one you are on now, where the carp havent came into contact with many hooks. mainly because man made baits have become a dietry need for pressured carp and eventually will take one. on the lake you are fishing they are thriving so well they dont really need to eat your bait. i reckon a natural is the way to go on a nice long hooklink laying across the choddy weed. i would actually love to fish somewhere like that though.

 

I know you are tryin to help mate but 9 months of carp fishin is not really enough experience to draw on and you are slightly confusing things.

 

The fish are very clued up, i have been around long enough to know it when i see it They are also quite old, when you have been staring at the things for years you can tell. They have certainly been fished for in the past and probably had a fairly horrendous experience on the bank because it has gone into their long term memory (Carp have a short and long term memory, just like people).

They are not thriving that well, there is not a huge amount of food in there, there is no weed (except as mentioned which is not a nice sort), no lilies, a few dead trees they do like to hang around and sunbathe. They are actually quite twitchy as they have little cover from herons and cormorants, meaning they rarely sit still for long unless tucked into the bank. I am actually going to go down the shop, buy some lilies and chuck them in because the carp have nowhere to sit under at the moment but that is not the point right now. The place is not rich in food in contrast with many other places I have fished and this is likely to be why the carp have not grown that large and why they must visit the margins to feed.

If you try and fish with naturals you will find that the perch will be more interested than the carp, so you cannot sit on your backside ledgering a worm or maggots - as a stalking bait however, it may work.

The snail shell idea is very good and I will try that too.

It is, however, a very pretty place to fish and is an small, old gravel pit. The biggest fish me and a mate watched jump three consecutive times like a salmon, right out of the water. Jump, jump, jump. We got a good view, I put it around 20lb, a common. It was the sort of carp you want to catch

[thedddjjj]

I guess the conclusion to the title of the thread is a freelined worm

[jsouth]

Hi approx 40 years of fishing the lead and I have NEVER foul hook a carp, no matter what the rig.

I MUST be doing something wrong

 

I wish I knew what was different. I'm not sure what you can do about a carp hitting a hook with their underside. I'm going to start dropping my rigs in water to make sure the hook lays down now.

[daleg2008]

I guess the conclusion to the title of the thread is a freelined worm

If they have been caught before then they are catchable. back in my youth when i used a 6ft fibre glass rod me and a mate fished this acre pool in the middle of a village. similar to the featureless lake you mention. we baited up a margin spot with sunken bread, maggots, worms and spam. for ages we waited untill the right time to pounce, doing it under the radar of the ducks was hard though. untill the magical time came we both attacked it with free lined sunken bread, my mate got the biggest at 12lb and i caught a 8lber. back in the day that was huge lol. yes the lake was regurlaly fished and no the carp had not be caught till then. we went back a week later to try and catch the other 3, but they were gone. apparently were netted and sold to a lake. i am using maggots in a roach infested lake now, maggots are the most underused carp bait mainly because people panic like you stated.

[daleg2008]

Another thing people panic about is the maggots burying themselves in the silt. i say even better keeps them out of view of little eyes. the carp know they are there, gets them rooting about i know this because you can see the black leaves and debris flying about in the water. still no target fish though looks like i will be waiting a bit longer for one though, my mate had the larger black common out today at 23lb in a spot i was baiting up little [censored]

[thedddjjj]

I dont think i said anything about people panicking but I know what you mean. I am pretty sure the perch would have a great time eating maggots however. They attack luncheon meat (my first choice) and drive you bonkers so I have given up on that.

 

yes I have tried prebaiting areas and found numerous clear spots round the edge - too many and chucked pellets on them to return and find them sometimes gone, sometimes not and no pattern to it that I can see as of yet.

 

They only really switch on after 8.30pm as its getting dark and I have not invested enough time to establish any kind of route. Trouble is, if you bait an area they seem to naff off and feed elsewhere, it seems to put them off - its very frustrating and a bit odd. You would think being a small place it would be easy to work out but as it runs round a long bushy island in the middle, you cant see very far at one time.

Also there are not many carp and they dont need that much food, not being that big anyway, so kilos of bait would just go mouldy on the bottom as there is nothing else to eat it I dont think.

I will nail them in the end, it will probably take an overnight session which i haven't done yet as there are a few characters that come around with airguns shooting things, I am sure you get the drift

I can tell you, its harder than it looks and after about 7pm the carp completely vanish, no bubbles, no signs of feeding - they must be in the margins somewhere but they could be anywhere really as it is all the same. I will keep prebaiting the same few spots as I have been and try red corn and stalking at first light which I have not yet done either. I need some worms for that I think. I will let you know how it goes. One carp is a small one but he is jet black on top with deeply imbedded scales that you can see are just edged with gold when it turns, has a two inch band of bright golden scales right down each side down to the lateral line and under that he is jet black again. Never seen a carp like it, looks like another species, so pretty!

[jsouth]

One carp is a small one but he is jet black on top with deeply imbedded scales that you can see are just edged with gold when it turns, has a two inch band of bright golden scales right down each side down to the lateral line and under that he is jet black again. Never seen a carp like it, looks like another species, so pretty!

 

Make sure you have your camera with you when you catch him

[daleg2008]

dj That was my point, you are worrying about perch eating the maggots but yet haven't tried it. i thought the same thing with roach and perch where i am. put maggots where the carp are and they wont resist All carp are predictable so you will get them in the end, only a matter of time. just dont have a breakdown in the process! i would much prefer it that way, compared to trying to haul through around hundred carp before getting your target fish. good luck mate

[thedddjjj]

Thanks pal, you make a fair point, have not tried it yet. Either that or I am spending another 2 hours attempting to tie a Trigger Rig