Rig Knots?? Help Please

[kempos]

Used a basic rig with a hair to a swivel but the 1/2 blood knot came apart right at the last knockings!!!!

 

Is a 1/2 Blood Knot good enough as looking at forums on rigs, the swivel is within a loop and not tied direct?

 

Any thoughts please?

 

By the way its with 8lb line catching (Sometimes) Carp up to 20lb average size 6lb-8lb. This knot has held up to 13lb before unless I was just lucky????

[salokcinnodrog]

Urgh!

 

The Blood knot is the most unreliable knot for many Lines, especially Braid!

 

These links give you access to animated knots, rig pics, and how to tie the Knotless knot.

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32236

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=25551

 

The most reliable knot for almost any material is the Palomar, although my choice for just about everything is the Clinch or Uni knot, exception being when I need a loop knot in which case I do go to the knot on Kryston packaging.

 

The exception for Blood knots is with Amnesia Hooklinks, where 4 turn blood knot has never let me down, although I do blob the end with a Cigarette lighter.

 

Whatever knot you use, lubricate it (spit or lipsyl) before tightening down

[kempos]

Thanks for that, just getting back into it after a few years (15) off!

 

Trying to teach my son the way forward.

 

Thanks for the help.

[salokcinnodrog]

Thanks for that, just getting back into it after a few years (15) off!

 

Trying to teach my son the way forward.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

No Problem

 

Just realised something strange, when I'm Chub Fishing I tend to use a Blood knot with Mono as I very rarely Hair rig a bait.

 

I also remember as a Youth with Mono Lines I used to use a Blood knot all the time, although Mono's have seemed to have changed over the past 20years, getting thinner (I seem to remember that 100lb Mono was 1mm according to the Sylcast packaging with all the line diameters on the back).

 

For Carp fishing I Uni knot every join that I need to do to swivel or to hook (Knotless knot being the exception, although I've gone back to Line Aligned with a separate hair in many cases)

[billsgonefishing]

all knots will bring you in a big carp if tied propley it all depends on what you have faith in i use half blood not its never let me down brought in a 32 pound mirror a couple of seasons ago on my lake make sure you always wet knot whilst tigtening it up

[daleg2008]

I have used the blood knot since i started, never really had a problem.

[nash_gadgeteer]

Although a well tied and lubricated blood knot will be fine, it tightens against itself then damages the line.

 

At the recent five lakes show, a testing rig was used to test knot strength by joining two piece of mono together.

 

A blood knot failed well below the strength of the fine, where a palamar knot faired quite well, and the best by far was a loop to loop.

 

Therfore i mostly use a knot less knot for the hook end and wrap two extra loops over the knot to avoid movement together with a small piece of tubing and at the swivel end a figure of eight knot loop.

 

This setup has never let me down and the test rig proved that rig failed at well over double the line strength.

[salokcinnodrog]

Although a well tied and lubricated blood knot will be fine, it tightens against itself then damages the line.

 

At the recent five lakes show, a testing rig was used to test knot strength by joining two piece of mono together.

 

A blood knot failed well below the strength of the fine, where a palamar knot faired quite well, and the best by far was a loop to loop.

 

Therfore i mostly use a knot less knot for the hook end and wrap two extra loops over the knot to avoid movement together with a small piece of tubing and at the swivel end a figure of eight knot loop.

 

This setup has never let me down and the test rig proved that rig failed at well over double the line strength.

 

I think that the Blood knot was failing as low as 45% of the Mainline strength. So using an 8lb line, it will break as low as 3.5lbs.

 

It is because as you have said, it strangulates itself and cuts through the line used to form the knot.

 

If you rub 2 pieces of mono together while both are kept tight, 1 piece of line can cut the other, this is basically happening with a Blood knot when it is under pressure.

 

 

Fine if you are catching smaller Carp where the fish are small and at most 50% of the mainline BS, but with a Big Fish, I would never trust a Blood knot.

 

If you ever get occasional crack-offs, or snap-ups that curly piece of line at the end is usually where the knot has gone.

[ghosth]

If in doubt, tie up a rig, then grab your scale and test it to destruction.

 

Palomar knot for 90% of my knots, due to ease of tieing and good strength.

 

Double or Triple surgeons knot for loops. Again easy to tie bank side in the wind and strong.

 

If your running at 10lb mainline you want a rig that will at least stick together to at least 7 - 8 lbs.

 

(PS I always just use a nail in the garage, etc and be careful! Swivels, hooks at those pressures can be dangerous.)

[wickie2358]

Am I the only one who uses a grinner knot? I've used this knot for countless years when sea fishing so adapted it to my carping. Never had any problems with this knot.

 

[kempos]

thanks for all the advice, my son and I used a lubricated (Spit) half blood knot yesterday and although it was not fully tested it certainley didn't break or come away.

 

Reading through all the replies it seems that perhaps we need to get 'updated' on knots.

 

Much appriciated to all. I think we are planning to sit up the kitchen table with hooks and line and the lap top acting as teacher to try them out and learn a few inside out.

 

Thanks again.

[jemsue5]

Am I the only one who uses a grinner knot? I've used this knot for countless years when sea fishing so adapted it to my carping. Never had any problems with this knot.

 

I use it all the time but twice through the eye.

[welder]

Am I the only one who uses a grinner knot? I've used this knot for countless years when sea fishing so adapted it to my carping. Never had any problems with this knot.

 

I use it all the time but twice through the eye.

 

Same as.

 

Ian

[nash_gadgeteer]

If you want to see, and try tying knots, I and some others from the team will be at the Fox Fishing Experience 2009:

 

See Thread:

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=40782&highlight=

 

and we are more than happy to help anyone out.

[daleg2008]

Although a well tied and lubricated blood knot will be fine, it tightens against itself then damages the line.

 

At the recent five lakes show, a testing rig was used to test knot strength by joining two piece of mono together.

 

A blood knot failed well below the strength of the fine, where a palamar knot faired quite well, and the best by far was a loop to loop.

 

Therfore i mostly use a knot less knot for the hook end and wrap two extra loops over the knot to avoid movement together with a small piece of tubing and at the swivel end a figure of eight knot loop.

 

This setup has never let me down and the test rig proved that rig failed at well over double the line strength.

 

I think that the Blood knot was failing as low as 45% of the Mainline strength. So using an 8lb line, it will break as low as 3.5lbs.

 

It is because as you have said, it strangulates itself and cuts through the line used to form the knot.

 

If you rub 2 pieces of mono together while both are kept tight, 1 piece of line can cut the other, this is basically happening with a Blood knot when it is under pressure.

 

 

Fine if you are catching smaller Carp where the fish are small and at most 50% of the mainline BS, but with a Big Fish, I would never trust a Blood knot.

 

If you ever get occasional crack-offs, or snap-ups that curly piece of line at the end is usually where the knot has gone.

seams odd! i havent had a big carp on it the biggest being 19lb, although been stuck in a tree a few times and its took some snapping. im using berkley big game in 15lb and its like tow rope, but i love my snag fishing and i need that brute force. if you guys seriously reccomend a change i will, although i personally cant see the difference between a half blood knot and a grinner. both look very similar.

[zander1]

Im with everbody else on this- grinner over blood knot anyday

 

I to do snag fishing- 15lb sensor - if you want the best out of it, use a grinner

[andynovicecarpangler]

Am I the only one who uses a grinner knot? I've used this knot for countless years when sea fishing so adapted it to my carping. Never had any problems with this knot.

 

I use it all the time but twice through the eye.

 

Same as.

 

Ian

 

i use 3 knots , this grinner , 1 similar to the grinner but the line goes through the loop you made and of course the knotless . i dont know any others