leaders????????????

[thecarpkid1990]

i'm totally baffeld (excuse the poor spelling) by leaders and i really wanna try using them because i don't think i'm concealing my rigs enough. can anyone give me any advice???

[spudder]

i ALWAYS use leadcore leaders. normally with a flying back-lead

aswell just to completely get the line on the bottom.

i have heard that the korda safe zone leaders are good IF you get the

coulours right(cus they do different colours of leaders)

[seleb]

If you do decide to go for leadcore make sure that if you get snapped / cut off that the fish can rid itself of the leader.

 

IMO the only way to fish it safely is when set up Helicopter style and to make sure that the top bead is loose enough for the rig to pull the bead off the end of the leader if the line parts , leaving the fish with only the rig and not the lead and leader.

[silly12sally]

i ALWAYS use leadcore leaders. normally with a flying back-lead

aswell just to completely get the line on the bottom.

i have heard that the korda safe zone leaders are good IF you get the

coulours right(cus they do different colours of leaders)

 

Yeah but leadcore leaders are also thicker and heavier, fish can easily spook off them.

 

A back lead may be all that is required.

 

I like the idea of flourocarbon leaders though.

[dan_the_fisherman]

gardner plummet leadcore is top quality mate, nice and thin so i dont worry about it spooking fish.

[lizardking]

I'm not a big fan of leadcore, and if it is used inproperly can be absolutley leathal! make sure you really think about safety when setting you rigs up with it.

 

Flurocarbon leaders or the korda ones staed above are worth a try

[salokcinnodrog]

My advice, is NOT to use Leadcore.

 

I was using it regularly, and with a supposedly safe set-up. I had an accident on the bank and created a kink in the leadcore. This kink caused all the beads to jam up preventing them and the Lead from releasing. Result One Death Rig. NOT GOOD FOR THE CARP.

 

Another incident at Suffolk Water Park. A Safezone Leadcore set-up that smashed up my marker BRAID, and cut throgh it. I eventually retrieved it, with 30metres of line attached as well as a rig and Lead. No way could the lead be released.

 

Final Example, again at Suffolk Water Park. I had a Carp run me alongside a FLINT Bar, causing a cut off above the leadcore. Until that Leadcore snags, that fish is towing the stuff around unless it can blow the hook out.

 

You don't necessarily need a Leader, in fact if you get the right Tubing and the Right Lead set-up then you can disguise and conceal most of it.

 

I'll give you a clue, ditch Bolt Rigs and Semi-Fixed Leads

[seleb]

" Until that Leadcore snags, that fish is towing the stuff around unless it can blow the hook out. "

 

Nick do you not think that the weight of the lead would pull the bead off ? I suppose the lead would have to be heavy enough but i would've thought that the standard 2.5oz that i assume most people use would be enough if the bead was set correctly ?

 

It's not very often that i fish with a lead less than 3.5 ounces but i'll have to test just to make sure.

[salokcinnodrog]

" Until that Leadcore snags, that fish is towing the stuff around unless it can blow the hook out. "

 

Nick do you not think that the weight of the lead would pull the bead off ? I suppose the lead would have to be heavy enough but i would've thought that the standard 2.5oz that i assume most people use would be enough if the bead was set correctly ?

 

It's not very often that i fish with a lead less than 3.5 ounces but i'll have to test just to make sure.

 

No Mate.

If the Leadcore kinks the lead can get trapped in that kink. I normally use 3 oz leads myself, but I was playing with 5oz leads and Leadcore in the margins this week, just to simulate the kink if it landed badly. The lead can get totally trapped. Also even if the lead gets free, the Leadcore is heavy enough to hold the hook in the fishes mouth until it actually can snag it up.

[seleb]

So do you fish with a running set up when fishing leadcore ?

 

As from what you've described in your test with the lead getting trapped on the leadcore when it gets kinked, even if the lead slides off it'll still be trailing the leadcore which means if it does get snagged up it will be tethered ?

 

I fish a Helicopter when using leadcore which is why i commented on the lead pulling the bead off the leadcore if there was a breakage above it ,i just assumed you set it up the same as me.

[salokcinnodrog]

So do you fish with a running set up when fishing leadcore ?

 

As from what you've described in your test with the lead getting trapped on the leadcore when it gets kinked, even if the lead slides off it'll still be trailing the leadcore which means if it does get snagged up it will be tethered ?

 

I fish a Helicopter when using leadcore which is why i commented on the lead pulling the bead off the leadcore if there was a breakage above it ,i just assumed you set it up the same as me.

 

I'm not using Leadcore at the moment. The results of last weeks playing in the margins totally put me off. I've tried Helicopter and Running Lead set-ups and no matter what, that kink in the Leadcore is what prevents beads and Run Rings with Lead pulling off it.

 

The tension provided by the Leadcore if it does crack-off is enough to hold the hook in the fishes mouth, even with barbless! Therefore the only way the Carp has to get the hook out of its mouth is to get tethered and then hope it can break the hook free.

 

Result after last weeks playing I think that Leadcore in its forms at the moment are not safe in Carp fishing

[tonybranno]

i'm totally baffeld (excuse the poor spelling) by leaders and i really wanna try using them because i don't think i'm concealing my rigs enough. can anyone give me any advice???

 

The more things you put on the end of your line, the more obtrusive your end tackle will become. The sooner your end tackle can get onto your mainline, the less it will be likely to be seen by the fish.

[jemsue5]

What can I say that I havent said beforeon here nothing Im afraid. Leadcore is nasty stuff and isnt safe to use as even Nick a long time user of leadcore as found out. It isnt safe on a helicopter rig either especially if your water contains lots of silk/blanket weed which can clog up around beads, knots etc to such a degree that the rig will not come apart. In one of my syndicate waters we removed 5 20lb+ fish that were teathered to snags in one year and all were on leadcore leaders. To be honest the TFG, korda ones can suffer with the same problems and arent really the answer. As Ive stated before I only use tubing which is just as good and hasnt cost me fish, I have yet to be outfished on my waters by anyone using leadcore so I really dont see the need to use it.

[silly12sally]

What can I say that I havent said beforeon here nothing Im afraid. Leadcore is nasty stuff and isnt safe to use as even Nick a long time user of leadcore as found out. It isnt safe on a helicopter rig either especially if your water contains lots of silk/blanket weed which can clog up around beads, knots etc to such a degree that the rig will not come apart. In one of my syndicate waters we removed 5 20lb+ fish that were teathered to snags in one year and all were on leadcore leaders. To be honest the TFG, korda ones can suffer with the same problems and arent really the answer. As Ive stated before I only use tubing which is just as good and hasnt cost me fish, I have yet to be outfished on my waters by anyone using leadcore so I really dont see the need to use it.

 

Does tubing prevent cut offs when fish take you into pads?

 

That is when I use leadcore and over gravel bars too.

[jemsue5]

I try not to let fish take me into pads but I have never really had a problem with cut offs but when snag fishing like that I will use heavy main line and with a steady constant pressure they usually come out ok. As for gravel bars I use three foot of tubing and dont really have a problem there either although living where I do gravel pit fishing is very rare for me.

[silly12sally]

I try not to let fish take me into pads but I have never really had a problem with cut offs but when snag fishing like that I will use heavy main line and with a steady constant pressure they usually come out ok. As for gravel bars I use three foot of tubing and dont really have a problem there either although living where I do gravel pit fishing is very rare for me.

 

Not really possible to prevent them getting in there mate.

 

So leadcore should be banned? Is there not something we can do about it?

[jemsue5]

Agreed sometimes they will make the pads especially if they kite during a fight. If fishing up to pads I will always be fishing locked up and they wont make it in there then. As for banning leadcore Its upto the individual lake owner, on some of my waters its banned on others it isnt on these waters you are really hoping that the anglers use it as safely as possible and that they know what they are doing, the thing is they dont a lot of the time. Me I dont think its safe so I wont use it end of story.

[silly12sally]

Agreed sometimes they will make the pads especially if they kite during a fight. If fishing up to pads I will always be fishing locked up and they wont make it in there then. As for banning leadcore Its upto the individual lake owner, on some of my waters its banned on others it isnt on these waters you are really hoping that the anglers use it as safely as possible and that they know what they are doing, the thing is they dont a lot of the time. Me I dont think its safe so I wont use it end of story.

 

Commendable attitude.

 

Think I will stop using it. I dont think my rigs are death traps but it is not worth even a minimal risk.

[salokcinnodrog]

What can I say that I havent said beforeon here nothing Im afraid. Leadcore is nasty stuff and isnt safe to use as even Nick a long time user of leadcore as found out. It isnt safe on a helicopter rig either especially if your water contains lots of silk/blanket weed which can clog up around beads, knots etc to such a degree that the rig will not come apart. In one of my syndicate waters we removed 5 20lb+ fish that were teathered to snags in one year and all were on leadcore leaders. To be honest the TFG, korda ones can suffer with the same problems and arent really the answer. As Ive stated before I only use tubing which is just as good and hasnt cost me fish, I have yet to be outfished on my waters by anyone using leadcore so I really dont see the need to use it.

 

Does tubing prevent cut offs when fish take you into pads?

 

That is when I use leadcore and over gravel bars too.

 

Must admit that I occasionally have fish make it into Pads, but have not suffered many cut-offs, even with no tubing. When I do have that problem I up the length of tubing to about 1600mm (4feet) which seems to cure most of the problems.

 

I don't think that it is actually the pads that cause the cut-off, but the snails, mussels etc that live on the stems and roots. Even though the lily roots can be as thick as your arm!

 

Like Jez I prefer to use even pressure on the fish to get them out of the pads. Large Carp are actually easier to get out than smaller Carp and Tench, they often fight they're way free. The Smaller fish just go in and sulk, which causes more problems. Taverham was very heavily covered with Pads as was Earith, and I didn't use Leadcore or Tubing on them.

 

At Earith Leadcore was banned, (as were all leaders), so I had to fish either with Tubing or nothing covering the Mainline.

 

Its over the Gravel (flint) that because I was using Leadcore that I had a cut-off. The Leadcore was keeping the line down in the fight as a fish ran alongside the bar away from me, causing the line to chafe and I got a cut-off.

[aodouble]

I'm new to this forum and all this debate over leaders fascinates me. I have been doing a lot of thinking and experimenting around this subject - not always related to carp fishing. I do a lot of beach fishing and barbelling as well. I fully concur with the thoughts on leadcore. It is dangerous stuff and I don't really see the need for it.

 

Consider the reasons for using a leader/tubing:

- to protect against damage from gravel, weed or other snags

- a shockleader for distance casting (although I see this as really just a heavier extension of the mainline)

- to prevent tangles

- to pin down the line near the end tackle

- to camoflage things near the baited area

 

In my opinion, the only legitimate reasons are the first 2. By using the right set up and rig components you can fish tangle free without leaders. Fishing slack lines or using backleads / putty plus fluorocarbon mainlines helps ensure everything is on the deck. At distance, it will be anyway. As for camoflage, there is nothing more obtrusive than 4ft of 45lb tow rope running in a straight line to your bait (might as well have a flashing neon arrow!).

 

Also, I have read a lot recently about the use of leaders being required to prevent scale damage. In my limited experience, I have yet to have a problem when using just mainline. I would change immediately if anyone can convince me otherwise or if I see it myself. I think fish get more scale damage in their annual spawning rituals than is inflicted by lines. Anyone have any thoughts?

[salokcinnodrog]

I'm new to this forum and all this debate over leaders fascinates me. I have been doing a lot of thinking and experimenting around this subject - not always related to carp fishing. I do a lot of beach fishing and barbelling as well. I fully concur with the thoughts on leadcore. It is dangerous stuff and I don't really see the need for it.

 

Consider the reasons for using a leader/tubing:

- to protect against damage from gravel, weed or other snags

- a shockleader for distance casting (although I see this as really just a heavier extension of the mainline)

- to prevent tangles

- to pin down the line near the end tackle

- to camoflage things near the baited area

 

In my opinion, the only legitimate reasons are the first 2. By using the right set up and rig components you can fish tangle free without leaders. Fishing slack lines or using backleads / putty plus fluorocarbon mainlines helps ensure everything is on the deck. At distance, it will be anyway. As for camoflage, there is nothing more obtrusive than 4ft of 45lb tow rope running in a straight line to your bait (might as well have a flashing neon arrow!).

 

Also, I have read a lot recently about the use of leaders being required to prevent scale damage. In my limited experience, I have yet to have a problem when using just mainline. I would change immediately if anyone can convince me otherwise or if I see it myself. I think fish get more scale damage in their annual spawning rituals than is inflicted by lines. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Welcome to the Forum

Quite a post to start with, and one that is pretty much with my way of thinking. Like you I also go Sea Fishing as well, and only use a Leader for casting then. If i'm out for Bass at close range then I dispense with them, unless the water is snaggy, in which case I use a shorter "rubbing" leader

 

 

My only disagreement is on use of Fluorocarbon Mainlines and my worry about their lack of Abrasion resistance and dislike of twist, any excess causing a fracture and line breakage. (thats my worry, not a personal attack).

You have seen the result of the experiments I have done when using leadcore, all started after a couple of incidents at Suffolk water Park, and previous posts on other threads.

I have a running lead with slack line method that works effectively, even in winter, when takes are at a premium, and also is safe near snags.

 

Tangles can definitely be minimised or even avoided by the use of Pva, sensible rigs and the right lead set-ups for the fishing being done.

 

It seems that, in many cases, that Magazines and Big Name Anglers and Tackle Manufacturers are advocating Leaders as a necessity to disguise/pin down the line near the lead. It really worries me that this practice is possibly putting fish at Greater risk because of components getting trapped on the leaders and unable to travel over the knot. I know we all check it happens on the bank in the event, but if a knot is jammed with weed or even mud, then this may not happen if a fish is trailing it in the water.

 

What many forget, even members on here, is that at much over 40metres then the Tight Line will not be running through mid water. It naturally bows and droops down to the Lakebed from the rod tip in a gentle curve (dependant on how tight line you are able to get). It may stay higher in the water if using braid as you are able to stay tighter with braid (braid advocatees note), but even this will eventually run along the bottom of the lake (if a sinking braid).

 

Going through the above again, and its relevant to Semi-Fixed Leads as well as Tight Lines, and again a point I have made before.

The best way to keep lines away from midwater is to use Slack Lines with Running Leads. Now fish that same Lead set-up with a Tight Line. Because the line is tight you have created a SAFE Semi-Fixed Lead set-up. With a Large Run Ring in any event of a crack off with a Leader then unless the knot to your leader gets totally jammed with a big ball of weed then the Run Ring will pass over the knot. To make it even safer then TIE the lead onto the run ring with a length of 3or4lb line. To cast it with a Big Whack, then just put a tie over PVA throgh the Lead and onto the run ring

[aodouble]

My only disagreement is on use of Fluorocarbon Mainlines and my worry about their lack of Abrasion resistance and dislike of twist, any excess causing a fracture and line breakage. (thats my worry, not a personal attack).

 

I take your point on this. Flourocarbon is a bit lively. I haven't had any problems with it so far but not been using it for long.

 

I am interested in your approach to running rigs. Not really ever persevered with them enough for carp (only pike). Apart from greater bite indication and safety do you feel this gives you any other advantages. I'd be interested to get your thoughts on how you feel this rig worksand how you set it up. Is resistance an issue like for pike? Do you need heavier leads to make it work properly? How do the fish not simply reject before the hook is set? Does it work at longer range? etc etc

[salokcinnodrog]

My only disagreement is on use of Fluorocarbon Mainlines and my worry about their lack of Abrasion resistance and dislike of twist, any excess causing a fracture and line breakage. (thats my worry, not a personal attack).

 

I take your point on this. Flourocarbon is a bit lively. I haven't had any problems with it so far but not been using it for long.

 

I am interested in your approach to running rigs. Not really ever persevered with them enough for carp (only pike). Apart from greater bite indication and safety do you feel this gives you any other advantages. I'd be interested to get your thoughts on how you feel this rig worksand how you set it up. Is resistance an issue like for pike? Do you need heavier leads to make it work properly? How do the fish not simply reject before the hook is set? Does it work at longer range? etc etc

 

Couple of threads that may interest:

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=26640

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=27479

[aodouble]

My only disagreement is on use of Fluorocarbon Mainlines and my worry about their lack of Abrasion resistance and dislike of twist, any excess causing a fracture and line breakage. (thats my worry, not a personal attack).

 

I take your point on this. Flourocarbon is a bit lively. I haven't had any problems with it so far but not been using it for long.

 

I am interested in your approach to running rigs. Not really ever persevered with them enough for carp (only pike). Apart from greater bite indication and safety do you feel this gives you any other advantages. I'd be interested to get your thoughts on how you feel this rig worksand how you set it up. Is resistance an issue like for pike? Do you need heavier leads to make it work properly? How do the fish not simply reject before the hook is set? Does it work at longer range? etc etc

 

Couple of threads that may interest:

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=26640

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=27479

 

Thanks mate. Looks like these issues have already been discussed at length. I will try one rod with the Solar run rig set up and ultra slack this year and see how it goes.

 

The post about pike and constant pressure has now also got me thinking.

[boots_n_braces]

Evening all,

I dont use leaders at all unless im fishing over really snaggy ground. imho a thin line off the bottom is better than a fat leader on it. i just go mainline straight through nowdays and if i feel like its not sitting right i backlead or rub heavy metal putty up and downt he line before i cast out.

 

As for leadcore helping concealment LMAO have you ever seen leadcore ont he bottom fromt he fishes view? its awful! Dont believe any of this crap about so and so's leader following the contours of the lake etc ive played with many and absoloutely none of them do. The very best on the flatest of gravel bottoms will be off the bottom at the sight of a slightly larger pebble.

IMHO mainline straight through is the way forward and you get the advantage of loosing another knot from the line which can only be a blessing.

I think people are to worried about fish 'feeling' line and if they started fishing with more reasonable breaking strains it wouldnt be such a problem.

 

You only have to look at the success people have with multistrand hooklinks to see this. in the water they sit horribbly off the bottom with all the fibres bouncing around but it doesnt bother the carp in the slightest because its light enough for them not to notice.