Couple of main line questions.

[adamkitson]

So after my first trip to my new sindi, couple of fish on the bank and learning about the place already, I've decided to up my main line strength. While I'm doing this I thought I may as well have a look around at some different lines, seen a couple I like the look of, wondering if anyone has used them and has any opinions or experiences. Lines are:

 

Nash NXT D-cam mono

 

Daiwa floorit super soft fluorocarbon

 

They both come in 18lb which will be ideal, and aren't ridiculously expensive if they're any good.

 

Thanks.

[newmarket]

So after my first trip to my new sindi, couple of fish on the bank and learning about the place already, I've decided to up my main line strength.

Hi Adam may I ask the question why ?

[adamkitson]

It's weedy in places, snaggy in others, islands to get around and between.

 

My spools loaded with 12lb mono and 15lb fluoro from a year on bare bottomed day tickets feels a little inadequate. I want the option to be able to pile on the pressure when/if required without worrying about even coming close line wise.

[adamkitson]

Oh and it's shallow. Without the security of depth to head for they are reputed to head off like trains, and the 4 I hooked certainly backed that up. Lost 40 yards to one that I lost on its first run.

[newmarket]

I'd be inclined , in that case, to have a butchers at the Tacklebox line test chart to determine the tie breaking strains and diameters of well established lines .

But if I was "upping " my artillery I wouldn't be considering Fluorocarbon as it usually breaks well below the stated b.s's and is like tow rope

[adamkitson]

 

 

Just wondering if anyone had used these specific lines really, and if so what were there experiences. I know some that have great marketing and sound good on paper, but are generally disliked.

[muftyboy]

So after my first trip to my new sindi, couple of fish on the bank and learning about the place already, I've decided to up my main line strength. While I'm doing this I thought I may as well have a look around at some different lines, seen a couple I like the look of, wondering if anyone has used them and has any opinions or experiences. Lines are:

 

Nash NXT D-cam mono

 

Daiwa floorit super soft fluorocarbon

 

They both come in 18lb which will be ideal, and aren't ridiculously expensive if they're any good.

 

Thanks.

I used the Nash dcam for about 6 months a couple of years ago.

 

Pros-, sinks like a brick, can't see it under water.

 

Cons- like rope, not good for distance casting , when I did try to give it a bit of welly it coiled into a mess.

[adamkitson]

Hmm, hadnt considered braid. Never used it before. Research time! Cheers.

[adamkitson]

Looked into braid, probably stick with a mono and fluoro for now. Thanks for the tip though.

[chillfactor]

If your not looking to cast over 120/ 130 yards

( no leader ) pro gold in 15lb is definitely worth a look . been trying it on one rod & have now stuck it on all three . The abrasion resistance is fantastic no stripping off line after repeatedly pulling through weed,

Listening to you talking about your new lake I reckon it's about the perfect diameter too .

Edited April 14, 2016 by chillfactor

[Brobin]

I am relatively new to carp fishing but not to fishing itself which I have been doing for over 40 years and I must admit to being totally confused when it comes to main line strength. I have always believed that the nearer you get to the hook the lighter the breaking strength should be as that way if you do get a line break you are losing as little of your tackle as possible. This, however, does not appear to be the case with carp fishing - This thread advocates 12 to 15lb mono, but if you read something like "The Guide to Modern Day Carp Rigs" then most of these rigs are constructed with 20 to 25lg hooklinks which are then attached to a  leader of similar breaking strain  - Surely this is a recipe for disaster as any break must come in the much weaker mainline - Or am I missing something? 

[salokcinnodrog]

I am relatively new to carp fishing but not to fishing itself which I have been doing for over 40 years and I must admit to being totally confused when it comes to main line strength. I have always believed that the nearer you get to the hook the lighter the breaking strength should be as that way if you do get a line break you are losing as little of your tackle as possible. This, however, does not appear to be the case with carp fishing - This thread advocates 12 to 15lb mono, but if you read something like "The Guide to Modern Day Carp Rigs" then most of these rigs are constructed with 20 to 25lg hooklinks which are then attached to a  leader of similar breaking strain  - Surely this is a recipe for disaster as any break must come in the much weaker mainline - Or am I missing something?

 

The weakest spot is usually the mainline knot to the hook link swivel.

This does change if you use a leader, you move the weakest point closer to the rod tip, basically, any mainline knot becomes the weak spot. It is very rare that with most knots you will get 100% breaking strain, with anything except the Palomar knot, (95%+), the average knot breaks at a lot lower rating.

 

With braided hooklinks especially, a fine braid of say 15lb, may cut into a fishes lip, however up the material to 25lb, and it does not cut.

 

Basically the theory is the same, leaving the shortest link possible in the event of a loss.

 

As it happens, I lost 3 rigs to a new snag last week on the lagoon. On checking each line breakage, I had the remains of the 'curly' on the line, where the knot itself had given way.

[buzzbomb]

When I started carping I always had mono rigs of weaker line than my mainline but switched to braid eventually. I tried fine braid but (fish safety considerations aside) wasn't able to cast them without rigs tangling so after trying a mate's 20# braided rigs started tying my own. As Nick says when things get German the line always seems to part at the knot. I've never had a major mainline break leaving a fish with a long tether but have landed a fish that was tied to a snag overnight and when I got it out found 30' of mono still trailing. Rather than blame this on unsafe angling I class it as a bizarre underwater accident. The man who caught it first explained that by the time he realised he had a fish on it was already tying knots around a submerged tree root. Since the only way I carp fish is with a simple running rig the chances of ever leaving fish and lead connected are remote.

[Brobin]

Ah I see - Although if the knot to the leader is the weakest link then is there not a risk of the fish trailing an awful lot of tackle in the event of a break off whilst playing a fish? 

[Brobin]

Whoops - I think buzzbomb has already answered my question above!

[buzzbomb]

Ah I see - Although if the knot to the leader is the weakest link then is there not a risk of the fish trailing an awful lot of tackle in the event of a break off whilst playing a fish?

That seems dangerous, I only use 12# mainline and a rig of 7" - 12" so that short piece of braid and a swivel is all that's left on the fish after a break. Perhaps if using a strong leader a weaker rig should be used. When I want to check for rig strength I just rig up as if for fishing, set the hook in the edge of the kitchen cupboard and walk backwards until it breaks. That will show you where your line will part if you get snagged.

[Brobin]

That seems dangerous, I only use 12# mainline and a rig of 7" - 12" so that short piece of braid and a swivel is all that's left on the fish after a break. Perhaps if using a strong leader a weaker rig should be used. When I want to check for rig strength I just rig up as if for fishing, set the hook in the edge of the kitchen cupboard and walk backwards until it breaks. That will show you where your line will part if you get snagged.

 

This sounds like really good advice - The leaders I am referring to are ones like the Fox Edges Leadcore Leaders which don't appear to  have a breaking strain listed but look to be pretty substantial and are 750mm long

[salokcinnodrog]

Ah I see - Although if the knot to the leader is the weakest link then is there not a risk of the fish trailing an awful lot of tackle in the event of a break off whilst playing a fish?

 

Indeed if using a leader that is a major risk, be it leadcore which I think despite someone's presumed typo, going to break around 40lb, (not many fish can break that), a fluorocarbon or shock leader is going to leave a fish trailing a mile of line if the mainline knot gives way. That I think is the time you definitely need a weaker hooklink.

 

As it happens I use Kryston braids, Merlin in 15 or 25lb, in the knowledge that:

A) the braid is not thin enough to cut lips, and is strong enough to land most fish I hook.

B) the mainline to hooklink swivel knot will give way. That leaves the fish trailing a maximum of 30 cms of hooklink.

 

I have had a combi rig knot give way, on only two occasions. One last week, was when I felt the hook pull into a new snag, the knot from Amnesia to Merlin pulled, and once with a fish on, when after landing a 20lb+ fish I was too lazy (or stupid) to check the combi link knot, and the same thing happened. I basically lost around 5cms of Merlin and a hook.

 

By the way though, and I think others have said it, in print, (Ken Townley I know) knots in Amnesia can be suspect, so should always be double checked.

[Brobin]

Thanks guys - Really useful info - It was the leadcore that was causing me the confusion - Is it really needed, or should I be using either tubing over the main line or just not bother and just have the mainline to the hooklink? 

[cyborx]

naked mainline +free running lead to short ESP coated braid hooklink in 20lb.

dont see the need for a leader (unless you wanna look like a poncey git) and their is no need at all in any form of angling for leadcore. Evil stuff

[Brobin]

naked mainline +free running lead to short ESP coated braid hooklink in 20lb.

dont see the need for a leader (unless you wanna look like a poncey git) and their is no need at all in any form of angling for leadcore. Evil stuff

 

Now this sounds far more like the type of fishing I am used to - is there a fashion in carp fishing to overcomplicate things?

[Brobin]

cyborx what does your running lead set up look like?

[cyborx]

cyborx what does your running lead set up look like?

 

i will draw you a verbal picture matey,

materials req'd

12 or 15 lb mono mainline

3oz flat pear inline c/w insert

tail rubber

#8 swivel

small bead

hooklink of choice

esp coated braid 20lb bs

#6 Fox wide gape armapoint

quiklink

20mm rig tube

tungsten putty

 

method

slide tail rubber onto main line then thread on your lead with insert in place, place your bead on with the large hole away from the lead and tie on your #8 swivel using a good strong knot (i use the grinner)

pull bead down over your swivel till it sits on the collar in the middle (you should have to pull quite hard to get it there) then pull the lead down over the swivel, you should find that it sits quite nicely into the lead, if this is not so you may need a #10 (it needs to slide freely when picked up by the swivel)

build your hooklink how you want it and connect to the lead swivel with the quiklink and cover metal bits with rigtube.

there you have it

 

 

 

my hook link.

 

i will try to post a photo of how it looks tomorrow as i am on the bank (yay!)

[cyborx]

Now this sounds far more like the type of fishing I am used to - is there a fashion in carp fishing to overcomplicate things?

 

these days the way to build a rig is to have a look at what Danny, Kev and all the others sell for terminal tackle then buy the lot.

then you have to get on the bank and see how many components you can squeeze into the one rig and that is the one you will catch on

 

or!!! you could just keep it simple

[newmarket]

Brob . Welcome matey .

 

Listen to the Cyborx . He has just recommended word for word what I would have suggested .

 

Unless very snaggy or casting 120yards+ there's no need for a leader of ANY material let alone Leadcore .

 

Like me , simple is good