Miltz308 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Hey guys! So yesterday I went out for the day and fished using boilies on a hair rig. I got multiple bites but only managed to hook two!! My rig looked like this (from rodtip to hook) :- 10lb main line 20cm sinker tube Inline 2.5lb lead (that ran freely over the sinker tubing) Korda anti tangle sleeve (to keep the lead semi tight to the swivel for casting and resistance on the lake bed) Size 8 swivel 20lb braided leader (roughly 1 FT) stripped in certain places for hinge etc Two weight shots along to line to keep the line on the lake bed Size 6 Hook with 15mm boilie attached to the rig (sometimes used a pop up on top of the boilie to pop it up off the bed slightly) When I got bites I would strike and very often missed it? My Hook is tied with a knot less not and offer the 'anti ejection' angle! Anybody got any ideas why I might be having trouble hooking? Are there any specific techniques to striking?? Thanks (Sorry for the long post). Sam! Quote
carpinthenet Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) well what hooks were u using?? normally if your using a 2.5oz lead u shouldn't need to stike cuz the lead will hook the fish for u Edited July 12, 2015 by carpinthenet Quote
Miltz308 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Posted July 12, 2015 I was using Wide Gape B hooks size 6!! Will edit that in! Quote
carpinthenet Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 okay well i can't see nothing wrong with that, how do u know the were actually bites, they could have just been fish swimming into your line Mr TightLines 1 Quote
Mr TightLines Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 When ledger fishing, like carpinthenet said, you do not need to strike your rod. You should wait for the alarms to bleep, and your line should be spooled off as you should be using a bait runner reel. You wait for the fish to hook itself unlike that of floating fishing where striking the rod is necessary. I agree it's probably just line knocks from passing fish, or movement around your bait causing little bleeps. Certainly never strike when ledger fishing. Good luck! Quote
newmarket Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Sam . Afternoon mate . Any chance of you posting a piccy of your set up ? During the short duration of the thread theres a few terms that im not familiar with . From the replies you received i think , for some reason , it has been assumed that you were fishing with a bolt rig of sorts . I think you have been trying to use an inline running lead , like in the Joe Morgan video . Am i right ? Sounds like a photo , if you can post one , will help . Your "anti-ejection" kk for one Quote
Miltz308 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Posted July 12, 2015 Ok I will try and post one in a min! But yes I have been using a running in line lead. like in the video I posted the other day newmarket, the one you said you'd used, the lead shouldn't come off the Korda anti tangle sleeve until the fish has hooked itself (or so I thought)?? Quote
newmarket Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Right well having fished with this set up myself im qualified to answer Try and post the pic first and then i'll be able to get a better idea although , tbh , i think i know what i'll say anyway . All i'll say for now is that just because you are Legering it shouldnt be assumed that the fish will just hook itself . You are not using a semi-fixed bolt rig . Quote
Miltz308 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Posted July 12, 2015 Also- there was one point where my line went taught (my bobbin was on my rod and I could see it tight in the water) and when I struck I could feel the fish for half a second ish and then it was off! Quote
beanz Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 It may not be anything to do with the rig, it may be down to what is feeding, and it may have not been Carp. I landed a few small Rudd on my last sess,on 15mm bait and size 6 hooks most were foul hooked but two were hooked bang through the bottom lip. how and what were you feeding?? As you dont mention that, and that can effect you getting knocks or not. Also, worth a mention. Your hook isnt damaged is it?? Quote
Miltz308 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Posted July 12, 2015 Thanks for all the advice btw guys. I was using cell boilies, mostly one sat flat on the bottom but sometimes two with the top one being a pop up. And it was a brand new hook, pretty sure none are damaged!! Quote
crusian Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Hello Sam Do you have to use barbless hooks where you fish ? . I used to always use barbless , but having changed lake the rules stipulate I have to use micro barbed hooks . I think for me it's a big improvement . I'm looking forward to Newmarkets' reply as I'm having similar problems . Smiley face . Quote
Miltz308 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) https://imageshack.com/i/pdFy5gZ0j https://imageshack.com/i/excqn4zOj Those photos are of my rig, one with and one without the sinking tube that goes on the mainline Edit:- if the fish picks up the bait and applies a bit of tension/movement the lead will slip off of the Korda anti tangle sleeve and run freely down the line! Edited July 12, 2015 by Miltz308 Quote
Miltz308 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Posted July 12, 2015 Hello Sam Do you have to use barbless hooks where you fish ? . I used to always use barbless , but having changed lake the rules stipulate I have to use micro barbed hooks . I think for me it's a big improvement . I'm looking forward to Newmarkets' reply as I'm having similar problems . Smiley face . Hi Crucian, Yeah I do have to use barbless, and I think I prefer too as well - I don't like to think the fish is getting hurt during de hooking etc! Quote
beanz Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Its hard to see much wrong with your rig. Maybe the situation? how was it cast out?? with pva mesh or in a solid bag, as if the latter then i'd suggest shortening the length so the lead comes to play sooner if picked up, if mesh hooked on, then it will straighten the rig on the cast , providing the cast is feathered down. Did you feed freebies? .....how were they spread?? Quote
newmarket Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Hello Sam Do you have to use barbless hooks where you fish ? . I used to always use barbless , but having changed lake the rules stipulate I have to use micro barbed hooks . I think for me it's a big improvement . I'm looking forward to Newmarkets' reply as I'm having similar problems . Smiley face . Thats a bit cheeky .... I've used the set up quite a bit and caught using it so i can only explain how i had mine set up Firstly i have no swan mussels or snags or sharp gravel there so i see no need for any leader or tubing on the line , theres no need for anyrhing like that , it sticks out like a sore thumb and imo it's possible that it may interfere with the sensitivity that the set up is supposed to offer with an inline. So , i have a 1.75oz inline lead , insert removed and replaced with a Gardner anti-tangle sleeve trimmed down , just to be 100% confident that the line moves freely through the lead. This is threaded on the mainline and a Gardner quick-lock swivel tied to the end . This fits snugly into the anti-tangle sleeve . Note snugly not tightly . Remember its a running set up Then my hooklength can be looped neatly onto the quick change swivel in an instant if you want to change hooklength. No fancy hooklength just about 6 or 7 inches i spose of uncoated braid , the sinking variety (some float or are neutral) Just a normal straightforward Knotless knot with a long hair and very sharp hook . Because where i fish has a thin layer of Algae on the bottom i use a pop up boilie with a small split shot beneath it on the hair to make a slightly bouyant bottom bait or wafter . This usually fished over a spread of whole and halved matching freebies and always with a slack line . Slack but not too slack , the line though slack should be straight and direct from rod tip to end tackle , this aids indication as well imo . Make sure your hook is plenty big enough and very sharp , sharp not just new out the packet , and if your getting pick ups but they are falling off i would be experimenting with the length of the hair , shortening or lengthening it till you feel your getting it right . The effect of the carp pulling the H/L swivel from the ant-tangle sleeve should be enough to set the hook but if your not sure stick your line into one of those little plastic line clips that you can fit on your rod near the reel (bout 30 bob in tackle shop), that'll do the trick . Thats how i have mine and why . But i prefer a pendant lead with a large run ring though thats a different thread of which there are lots , i hope this is of some help Sam and bear in mind Nigel ( above) may be right Edited July 12, 2015 by newmarket Quote
Addicted_Carper Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Are you sure they wasnt liners that you was getting? What is the bottom of the lake bed like that you are fishing on? Maybe you can shorten the length of your rig so that the lead comes into play a bit quicker. I would only strip the coating back and inch or two after the hook as stripping bits along the length of the hooklink can cause tangles? Quote
hutch Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Nige has already mentioned a trailer, also what other species are present in the lake, I have known small tench and bream pick up the bait and just run with it in there mouth. From looking at your pic there does not appear to be much wrong, I would try shortening that hooklink by half, there is a chance they are using the long hook length to shake the hook before connecting to the lead. Also worth playing around with hair length try a little bit longer or a little shorter and see if they connect any better Edited July 12, 2015 by hutch Quote
crusian Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Thanks Newmarket , I wasn't being cheeky , I really wanted to read what you had to say . I had something to say , but Hutch beat me to it . All I can do is confirm that when fishing a snowman I lost a small carp which removed the 12mm " top " of the snowman . Also as Hutch says it looks as though your hook link is 10-12" , but Newmarket uses 6-7" . Personally I am confident when my " bottom " boilie - i.e. the 15mm boilie touches the bend of the hook . How long is your hair please Newmarket ? . Quote
hutch Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Whilst we wait for Dr NM to add to his diagnosis, Didn't know you were using a snowman if that is the case that hair with 12mm and 15mm might be a bit short as the bait will be sat right on top of the hook (which is not a bed thing sometimes), but if the fish are a bit smaller might be worth giving them a cm or 2 to hang themselves and take the bait right back into the mouth cavity taking the hook with it. newmarket 1 Quote
crusian Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Hello Sam Have I read your opening post correctly ? . Are you using a snowman ? , that's what I thought , and that's what I use . Thanks Hutch I take your point about 1-2cm separation . Quote
newmarket Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Thanks Newmarket , I wasn't being cheeky , I really wanted to read what you had to say . I had something to say , but Hutch beat me to it . All I can do is confirm that when fishing a snowman I lost a small carp which removed the 12mm " top " of the snowman . Also as Hutch says it looks as though your hook link is 10-12" , but Newmarket uses 6-7" . Personally I am confident when my " bottom " boilie - i.e. the 15mm boilie touches the bend of the hook . How long is your hair please Newmarket ? . Hello again mate , i usually like to have an inch between the top of the boilie and the hook as a starting point and then if i start getting what appear to be not connecting to the fish or suspicious 'bites' then i either lengthen or shorten the hair and/or the hooklength but as i usually fish a standard running set up with (usually) a pendant lead as opposed to inline i dont really think hooklength length , as such , matters so much. I feel that maybe a long hair coupled with a balanced hookbait of some sort kind of flys in the fishes mouth easier. It probably would matter with a bolt though ( CM would know bout those). I dont get on the bank too often but when i do i never seem to get these sorts of problems and when i did these lads on here sorted it out for me. Im quite proud of the fact that my "fish landed to takes received" ratio is very good . Cant help thinking that this particular prob here is more to do with the baiting method/scenario rather than rig issues though i admit i wouldnt be having the tubing or coated braid , it would always be naked ( lakebed permitting) and either uncoated braid or , to the other extreme , a mono or fluoro hooklength , rather than coated braid with bits peeled off here & there . Simple as i can always , including spreading the freebies . No good fishing beds of bait with running rigs . Hope MY take on it has been of use to someone peeps Quote
ianain Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 (sometimes used a pop up on top of the boilie to pop it up off the bed slightly) I've found snowmen can lay funnily so I always check and trim / change if needed. Quote
ianain Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Hope MY take on it has been of use to some peeps Always Dr NM I agree in the baiting rather than rig could be the culprit. Can you expand on what you base lengthening or shortening the hair / hook length? Quote
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