Synthetic corn rig help

[Ddgx]

I like the idea of, and have some korda fake corn. The issue I have with it is that the supposedly 'slow sinking' nuggets actually make most hooks float. Not what I want necessarily. This evening I'm trying to find a solution by trial and error, what I've arrived at is sort of a kd rig. It passes the palm test (if you subscribe to that), if lifted up by the bait the hook point is facing down which is what I think I want. I also quite like that a bit of buoyancy seems to make the corn less pinned down to the bottom which at least in my mind would have it behaving a bit more like free offerings when wafted ... but, on the other hand this just feels over complicated? Is what I actually need heavier/less buoyant fake corn to negate the need for the shot/putty? Few pics here, point to note; test tied it with some old drennan carp silk which I discovered in the sink floats like a rubber duck! Will eventually tie it (neatly) with coated braid. Your thoughts greatly appreciated. Dan.

Sorry about pic quality!

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ddgx

[newmarket]

I reckon your thinking too much personally . Ive had sucess using a pop up with a small shot on the hair using a basic braided KK rig .

 

You obviously want the braid to sink but it will work with floating corn as well as pop up boilies .

 

Its apparently what the KD was made for ( depending what you read ).

[grangemilky]

Bigger hook, or chop a bit off the corn. I would have no quarms using a size six with that size bait.

[Ddgx]

Morning chaps. Believe it or not that's already a size 6! (korda wide gape). Those korda slow sinking corns are pretty big compared with your average green giant grain! I've been thinking this over, I think I'll give this a go, albeit it with the hair a bit shorter. The buoyancy of the corn is hopefully going to help wizz it into carp mouth and the shot should drop it back down. The hair should pivot where the shot is and claw a hook hold. If it doesn't work in the field I'll be looking for some corn that isn't so buoyant, or as you say chop it down!

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ddgx

[blanksalot]

Putty on the hooklength

[Benjamin Perry]

or take remove that silcone from the shank, and add a small shot between the knotless knot and the corn, this will sit nicely on the floor.

[Ddgx]

Hi Benj. I knew those photos were bad! That's exactly what I've got going on - I think it's a little aaa shot, if you look real close you can just make it out in shot one. I feel like if I remove the silicone the angle of the hook will be too acute when the bait gets lifted off the floor?

[newmarket]

Hello again mate , im sure the others will correct me here if they feel im way off here but are the Carp your fishing for THAT riggy ?

 

I reckon your worrying way too much about hook angles and what not .

 

Dont worry bout silicon tubing etc simple knotless knot braided rig with decent seperation on the hair length , no.4 , even a BB shot on it and bouyant corn will FLY into any carps mouth .

 

Honest

Edited December 3, 2014 by newmarket

[Ddgx]

It's a good question newmarket.

 

Here's my thought pattern; even on a "runs" water, if there is no obvious detriment to fishing like they're 'riggy' - then why not? Even on a runs water, it seems to me that it's quite possible the larger or older fish might be cautious? Again, having seen underwater footage and the ease at which fish can eject a hook without being snared - why not try and rule that scenario out as far as possible?

Don't get me wrong, I have caught plenty of fish with the most basic version of the hair rig - but what about all those fish that mouthed my bait and spat it back out that I never knew about...?

[Benjamin Perry]

Sorry, didnt see that, i would slidd it halfway down the hair though, for me i would want the corn to sit just off the bottom but with the ability of that hair to allow the hook to turn.

 

If the bait is heavy then you want it for me to be off the end of the hook as possible, this makes the tip heav, allowing it to turn aggressively

.

 

If your using a pop-up, light hook bait they you want this coming off the back nearer the eye so it again makes the hook point heavy. If you have a bouyant bait coming off nearer the end then this conteracts the point, which can prevent a good hook turn or hold.

 

Have you looked at sharpening the hook points, it looks mint in your shots so your prob already do it but it def adds an edge.

[Ddgx]

Hi Ben.

 

Yes, I'm just starting (I think!?) to get properly to grips with how the place that the hair leaves the hook effects its potential to flip. I think where I've got that silicone; any higher and the hook doesn't turn at all - it sits upside down if you lift from the bait. I look at something like the 'bottom bait rig' shown here, http://www.korda.co.uk/rigz/bottom-bait-rig/ and maybe I'm not getting it, but where the silicone is (that far round) doesn't make sense to me. When that hook comes off the bottom (sucked at), that hook point is going to be facing up, not down?

 

It's funny, I don't sharpen my points (yet) but I was looking at files yesterday - mostly trying to work out why the hell they're so damn expensive!?
 

[Benjamin Perry]

Thats correct, if you run the rig acroos your hand for that bottom bat rig, the weight of the boillie will ensure the hook point is heavy and turn, replicating the fishes mouth.

 

Its all about how the hook point behaves when the fish trys to eject the bait, nice aggresive turn into the bottom lip.

 

They are but will last, the JAG is regarded as the best, get the vice, magnifier and black sharperner and that will last and last

[dalthegooner]

First point, in my opinion, is that it's no good tying a rig to check it's underwater properties with a hook link material different to what you intend to fish with.

 

Is the fake corn, corn or maize?

 

And I'd use a small shot on the hair about 5mm from the corn if it were needed. I'd be looking to get the corn to cover the hook as much as possible when looking at it from above.

[Ddgx]

Dal, totally relevant point and I agree. I promise I wasn't going to take it to the field without tieing and testing it again with the other choice of braid

Totally unpro of me, literally yesterday I decanted all of the corn from its original packaging into a tub and chucked the packet and now I'll be damned if I can remember. Possibly the maize, they are quite big. I'm glad that the shot approach is gaining some approval.

[newmarket]

I'm glad that the shot approach is gaining some approval.

Its so much easier than drilling out a bottom bait and fiddling about with cork inserts dont you think ?

Besides how you going drill out a bit of fake particle ?

 

Yeh the shot on the hair approach has to be the way to go , just a case of finding the split shot or sinker etc that negates the weight of your chosen nailer and bobs yer aunties live in lover

[Ddgx]

Hopefully get a chance to re-tie a bit later on and post results. Cheers all!

[dalthegooner]

I've just noticed (And this has no relevance to the rig and is just me being nosey ) that you have a quick change swivel on the rig. What do you use on your line to connect it to?

[Ddgx]

Hi dal, at the risk of receiving all sorts of scorn I'll tell you the history of my quick link use. I used to use drennan safe links, attached to the swivel that lives in a lead clip. Not long ago I got these Fox links because they have less sticky out bits so less chance of tangle. I tend to have at least 2 of the same hair rig tied for each rod and I will have hookbait or bag or whatever tied and ready to go before I bring a rod in or bank a fish. Just reduces the time that the rod is out of the water.

[Ddgx]

Oh, last session I tried tieing rigs with a non-slip loop at the end and passed this through swivel then hook through loop. To try and slim down the amount of components. Too difficult to get back off by hand, ended up using a bait needle to loosen the knot and this invariably caught and separated the braid. Also took an age in comparison.

[dalthegooner]

You most definitely WON'T get any scorn from this end mate. But I would consider just tying a loop on the end of your rig with a figure of 8 knot and having a quick link tied to your line.

 

It gives you the required speed of change and is a cheaper (And safer (Less chance of a snap off, in my opinion)) way of doing it.

 

And it will save you a couple of quid (Not a lot, but every little helps ).

Edited December 3, 2014 by dalthegooner

[Ddgx]

That sounds good. Like I said, I'd like to reduce components to a minimum. If I want to use safety clips complete with peg for retaining swivel (or quick link!) - can you recommend a brand/type? Will need a choice of colours.

[dalthegooner]

I use this type which fit perfectly in a lead clip and the use an anti tangle sleeve to go over the swivel.

 

The anti tangle sleeve helps to ensure I have a great presentation every time, ensures that the rig can't come off of the swivel and means that you can use a lead clip and anti tangle sleeve to match the lake without having to worry about swivel colour.

[Ddgx]

Had this on my eBay watch list http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=251705833108&alt=web but the clip swivel has a big gap. Really good tip dal many thanks.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ddgx

[salokcinnodrog]

It's a good question newmarket.

 

Here's my thought pattern; even on a "runs" water, if there is no obvious detriment to fishing like they're 'riggy' - then why not? Even on a runs water, it seems to me that it's quite possible the larger or older fish might be cautious? Again, having seen underwater footage and the ease at which fish can eject a hook without being snared - why not try and rule that scenario out as far as possible?

Don't get me wrong, I have caught plenty of fish with the most basic version of the hair rig - but what about all those fish that mouthed my bait and spat it back out that I never knew about...?

That ejection that we never knew about happens with almost every rig. In fact it is probably that that spawns some of our maddest crazy rig ideas at all, like the hair.

 

There is likely no rig that will not be sucked in and blown out, or mouthed and ejected.

 

When it comes to buoyant corn, although I very rarely use it now (and always with no bait stop!), a plain basic hair, over plenty of corn and Vitalin worked for me.

 

Pop-ups I don't often bother with critically balancing, or getting the perfect wafter, I have it overweighted.

 

My fishing tends to be over a fair amount of bait, so the carp are just hoovering along. If my pop-up is only just higher than the lakebed, then the carp will suck in freebies and hookbait, constantly sucking and blowing, the bait will go in and out a few times, till in one moment it takes hold.

 

If I get cleaned out with no fish, oh well, the blighters beat me for a change, and that can happen fairly frequently anyways.

 

 

In fact, sometimes I don't even bother with a hair for plastic corn, simply mounted and the hook slid through the bait until the corn is on the shank, with the point sat on the lakebed.

[The Donk]

Put a shot on the hooklink the amount you want the bait to sit up then put some yellow rig foam under the bit of fake corn. you can then trim the foam down to get what ever type of hookbait you require.