nathanhuynh Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I just started putting together some helicopter rigs, they look good and I can see that with my VERY stiff rigs and supple hairs with the helicopter setup will have magic presentation over the tockenham resi deep silt. But I don't know about hook holds. I now use a relatively slack line so if the fish picks up the bait and swims away from me the weight of the lead will have no hooking affect at all. Will the fish hook themselves fast enough? thankyou ps. whats the difference between a helicopter rig and a chod rig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Me personally I have had a number of problems with helicopter/chod rig set-ups over time in terms of around 20 years fishing. The problems were bad enough that unless I absolutely have to I don't use the helicopter or bomb on the end of the line set-ups at all. I will only use them when I can't fish any other method over silt. The first problem I found was that if the hook pattern wasn't perfectly suitable and the hook wasn't taken in deep enough on a take it was prone to opening or pulling out. Another problem I found was that naked set-ups, with the rig revolving around the mainline on a swivel then the mainline was prone to breakages. This required the use of a leader or tubing to cover the problem, but in turn this increased the risk of a fish trailing a load of rubbish should you snap-off. I will say that many of the modern naked helicopter kits and pieces are a whole lot more suitable than they were. Now to take it to the difference between chod and helicopter rigs. A helicopter rig is basically a rig where the bomb is on the end of the line, with the rig able able to revolve around the line, in theory going round the line on the cast like a helicopters rotors. A chod is a form of helicopter/ bomb on the end of the line set-up, but is slightly more developed in that it also includes the hooklink as part of the set-up. The original silt rig was pretty much the same as the chod rig, but the bait was not 100% fished as a pop-up as the chod rig seems to have become. The hooklink was also not set in stone, but was still able to slide up and down the mainline to cope with the depth of the silt. A final note for you, although Tockenham is silt, it may be best to fish where the fish feed, so if they are feeding IN the silt then that is where you need to put your bait. If they feed ON TOP of the silt then that could be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Nick , how would you know whether the fish were feeding IN or ON TOP of the silt ? Or is that a noddy question ? It IS still early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Nick , how would you know whether the fish were feeding IN or ON TOP of the silt ? Or is that a noddy question ? It IS still early Not a Noddy question at all, and partly down to the type, colour and smell of the silt where the food is or the carp feed. Its not really easy to explain the different types of silt. In really black, chemically smell rotting type silt the carp tend to feed on top of it more than in it. If they dig into it to feed they tend to get a faceful of noxious gas, so prefer not to feed in it, also I think the natural food isn't in this stuff, but usually more on top of it. Then other silt doesn't seem to be so stinky, and contains plenty of food inside it, so the carp will feed in the silt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Ah gotcha so you could probably deduct what type of silt it is by leading around a bit beforehand . I suppose its common sense really that no fish would want to dine IN something that smelt as foul as some of that stuff can . Thanks mate its good that you are still around for me to pick your brains , so many regulars seem to have disappeared from the forum lately. Apologies to the original poster for hijacking the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 im unsure what you mean by "if the fish picks up the bait and swims away from me the weight of the lead will have no hooking affect at all" as it would be in the silt, so even a light lead will have a bolt effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grangemilky Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 i am lucky enough to have been in a position to have witnessed from a few feet away a carp pick up a my helicopter rig, on a slack line and 'do me' with out so much as a bounce on the rod tip. Fortunately i caught that same fish 2 weeks later :yey: however, i now never use a helicopter rig unless i am fishing at distance, and then i use bow string tight lines. I have never used a chod rig, and have never fished anywhere i have found the need so can't comment on that one, but 90% of my silt fishing is with an inline lead (something i have read you should ever do), all i change is the length of the rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanhuynh Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 im unsure what you mean by "if the fish picks up the bait and swims away from me the weight of the lead will have no hooking affect at all" as it would be in the silt, so even a light lead will have a bolt effect.because I like to fish quite slack lines with weightless bobbins and well sunk line if the fish swims away then it will have to take the slack out of the line before the lead will be picked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 are you not using a top bead then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grangemilky Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 im unsure what you mean by "if the fish picks up the bait and swims away from me the weight of the lead will have no hooking affect at all" as it would be in the silt, so even a light lead will have a bolt effect.because I like to fish quite slack lines with weightless bobbins and well sunk line if the fish swims away then it will have to take the slack out of the line before the lead will be picked up. If you get a chance cast your line onto a distant far bank you can access and sink and slacken your as you would when fishing. Now go around the far bank and have a tug. You will probably be amazed by the amount or resistance created by just the line its self through the water. This resistance gets greater the slacker the line. Whilst your there, pull the line back towards your rods, as if the fish was running towards you, as in a 'drop back.' You would expect your bobbin to drop downwads, Watch the power of physics and how resistant water is, as your bobbin will actually raise upwards and you will even start to peel line from your reel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Good ole' water dynamics! Dont always follow unsubstantiated fashions, try a semi slack line, or a mega tight line. The lead doesn't have to set the hook, think about how many fish are caught on non bolt setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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