nealjt Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 If the line breaks or a carp picks up a cracked off bait with a helicopter set up be safer as the lead would pull the line free of the rig leaving the fish with just a rig rather than rig and line trailing? What do you think folks? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianain Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 It all depends on how they are tied, both can be made un-safe and both can be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 A running lead should be instantly more safe with the run ring running on the mainline. In the event of a snap-off the lead will be ejected and so the fish is only trailing the rig and at most length of line, which should allow for the hook to be ejected. On the case of helicopter rig and a snap-off the fish is likely automatically trailing a lead as well as the rig. If the rig itself is free running up and down the mainline then it should pull free of the end of the snapped mainline. However in that case then should you be fishing with slack lines (and no snap-off), then the rig can be ejected with no indication at the rod end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grangemilky Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 All well and good if it lies how you want. A running rig not feathered down has a tendency to tangle. A crack off with a running rig may well tangle leaving a fixed lead. The only truly safe rig is one without a hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 the is a myth, probably originating from lead clips designers, that the lead snags fish. well the mainline will still snag around submerged branches and other bottom debris...causing any set up to be a risk. lead clips only lose the lead when pulled away from you, so if your lead is wedge in the fork of a sunken tree and you have to pull for a break....well hopefully your not using fake baits the is no 100% safe rig they all have risks, whether tied by a 'carp rig safety expert' or someone who's going to kill it to eat. heli,bolt and running are all connected to 300yds of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 the is a myth, probably originating from lead clips designers, that the lead snags fish. well the mainline will still snag around submerged branches and other bottom debris...causing any set up to be a risk. lead clips only lose the lead when pulled away from you, so if your lead is wedge in the fork of a sunken tree and you have to pull for a break....well hopefully your not using fake baits the is no 100% safe rig they all have risks, whether tied by a 'carp rig safety expert' or someone who's going to kill it to eat. heli,bolt and running are all connected to 300yds of line. Agreed entirely, the only thing as anglers that we can do is to make sure that we fish as safely as possible. Helicopter set-ups can be made as safe as possible by using a free running bead which allow the rig to be ejected in the event of a snap-off (I used to use Cox and Rawle Beach Beads), or by a few simple homemade items put together. A piece of rigid tubing with a tail rubber on the end, a rubber bead as a stopper at each end, and a ring swivel with your rig in between the beads. In the event of a snap-off the rubber bead at the rod tip end will pull off the tubing, and allow the rig to come free. It MUST (or as close to 100% as possible) then be able to come over the mainline breakage. If you want it fixed near the lead the tail rubber can be pushed onto the rigid tubing and used to cover the lead attachment (to me a lead clip), but if you do want it free running, then the rubber bead is at the end. I'll agree it can look a bit Heath Robinson, but it definitely works https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37603 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nealjt Posted September 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Thanks for all your replies, as usual has got me thinking.... I go with what was said about the risk of mainline wrapping around something.... I'd bet if any rig was set up as safe as possible mainline snagging is still quite a hazard.... Now my mind goes off into the whole barbed or barbless debate! Argh! If set up well I do think a helicopter rig will give a much better and immediate chance of the fish loosing lead and mainline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 I found a picture of the Beach Beads that I used to use. Please note that you MUST NOT glue them together, despite the instructions. They are designed for Sea Fishing, where the use of glue may not be as big a hazard, but for carp fishing and any helicopters, DO NOT glue them. http://www.coxandrawle.com/products/accessories/beach-beads I'm not so sure about a helicopter being the easiest to lose the lead if the mainline snaps, it has to be possible for the rig to be ejected. On the occasions that I have had a snap-off on Brackens pool where the fish made it to snags, or on occasion I have overcast into a tree and the mainline snapped, I have always found that the mainline snapped at the knot between mainline and the hooklink swivel. The knot is the weakest part of the equation, and that first knot (should you be using a leader), is always the place it has snapped for me. Since I use a free running lead, I know that the fish is not trailing anymore than the rig should it get picked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nealjt Posted September 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 Thanks for the link Nick, good point re breaking at knots, my breakages occur as you mentioned and I don't think I've ever had a line snap with a fish on. My worry is mostly about a fish picking up a bait after a snap off. At the moment my mind is contemplating the idea of a home made clay weight that would weaken enough in the water after say 2 days that if snagged it would easily break away from the line. But then I do go back to a lenfhtbof mainline connected to a rig that tangles on something. Ideally I want to find something that can connect a lead on the end of the line, keep enough pressure to ensure a landed fish but that after day 24 hours could release the lead from the mainline so if a fish has the rig, lead and line connected it would then easily loose the lead, main line comes away from the rig at lead end and voila carp left with only a rig..... Any ideas anyone....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandki Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 i've always been a big fan of running leads as they are, imo, the most sensitive, indication wise and in the event of a breakage the lead is free to discharge. the only problem i have is when using them around snaggy areas or thick weed, when it would be an advantage to dump the lead. until recently the only effective way of doing this was by incorporating a rotten bottom, which can be a bit hit and miss and fiddly to tie, especially if your using pva tape/string in the damp. never been a fan of lead clips as i think the fish use the weight of the lead to discharge the hook. the only real positive with a lead clip is the ease with which the lead can be dumped. then i found something that is really cleaver.. using a modified lead clip that works like a running lead and in the event of a breakage, the only thing left behind is the hooklink. take a look at this link... be ready to be impressed. once you use one you will never use a normal lead clip again. sorry, tried to find the vid of the lead clip system, this is of the inline system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandki Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 http://www.thefriendlyfisherman.co.uk/section17668/product25367/PB-PRODUCTS-HIT--RUN-X-SAFE-LEAD-CLIP-x.html not the vid but all info on the lead clip system. hope it helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 i've always been a big fan of running leads as they are, imo, the most sensitive, indication wise and in the event of a breakage the lead is free to discharge. the only problem i have is when using them around snaggy areas or thick weed, when it would be an advantage to dump the lead. until recently the only effective way of doing this was by incorporating a rotten bottom, which can be a bit hit and miss and fiddly to tie, especially if your using pva tape/string in the damp. never been a fan of lead clips as i think the fish use the weight of the lead to discharge the hook. the only real positive with a lead clip is the ease with which the lead can be dumped. then i found something that is really cleaver.. using a modified lead clip that works like a running lead and in the event of a breakage, the only thing left behind is the hooklink. take a look at this link... be ready to be impressed. once you use one you will never use a normal lead clip again. sorry, tried to find the vid of the lead clip system, this is of the inline system. Try using a paper clip to attach the lead to with a running lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 http://www.thefriendlyfisherman.co.uk/section17668/product25367/PB-PRODUCTS-HIT--RUN-X-SAFE-LEAD-CLIP-x.html not the vid but all info on the lead clip system. hope it helps in theory this is a good way to dump the leader when using a leadclip. but in reality it increases the snagging points...mainline/leader knot has to pass through the tail rubber( which works fine testing it at home using our hands) but a bit of weed round the knot or small twig wrapped in the line, now the fish has a big loop to drag around and find a snag and if using leadcore,then just a kink may be enough to jammed at the tail rubber its not as safe as its made out to be. the youtube vid a few years back when i first see this was a perfect example of how you need hands to make it part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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