adamkitson

Yeah I'm not a fan of dropping the lead on a rotary rig with any kind of leader. Shall be playing around with the tubing approach, although it presents issues as well as solving them, and begs the question, what is the difference between leaving a fish with a meter of tungsten tubing, and leaving the fish with a meter long leader. I personally like the idea of a naked/on the line setup with a lead drop system, and a leader setup with a fixed lead. Always tubing for lead clips and safety lead drop setups with tubing for inlines. I'm out for a few nights later in the week, and can foresee myself using every one of those!

Yup, all of the above. Also naked has its place, fished over weed with a critically balanced weighted chod rig with nothing on the line to weigh the pop up down. Super slack line of course otherwise it'd just pull into the weed. However if the wind is blowing debris around the lake and it's being fished over "chod" rather than weed then a bit more weight to hold it down in the form of a weighted leader or tubing allows you to stay a little more in touch with it, even back lead under the tip and fish semi-slack, with the pop up sunk by the tubing/leader rather than any weight on the hooklink. Naked is much more likely to be blown around by line drag and water movement than with some weight.

Thanks Chillfactor!

Hmm, yeah. Didn't think about not being able to use the no trace beads, which are great IMO. a sticky bead on tubing would just leave them with tubing instead of the leader. Ok, probably best solution would be heli's and standard chods on safe zone/dark matter leaders with no trace beads and no heli safe system, and naked chods on heli safe, again with no trace beads. I really wish some other manufacturers would produce some of this stuff. Sounding like a right "friend of Danny" but the no trace beads are genius, and if you have to use a leader and don't want to use leadcore (which is allowed on my waters) the safe zone/dark matter range are hard to top.

Hmm, have just had a thought, I guess a heli safe system would be preferable if fishing a rotary rig without a leader, i.e a naked chod, something on tubing, or otherwise a rotary system where the main line is tied off below the hooklink. A crack off or break during a fight is much more likely to be at the knot, so it makes little difference if the lead is still there or not, and dropping the lead would help in getting the fish up and out of the weed and onto the bank. I am personally trying to remove leaders from my fishing as much as possible. I already don't use them for inline lead setups, or lead clips, but still do for rotary setups. Does anyone fish helicopter rigs or non-naked chod rigs on just tubing rather than a leader? If that would work I'd be able to bung all the leaders.

Yeah well, without a first hand review I would never have considered spending almost £250 on a pair of fishing sunglasses, but having received them, safe to say, I will never buy anything else again! Build quality, materials, comfort, clarity, polarising effect, look, actually better than I expected! Glad I went for the real tree frames with green lenses, proper carpy. Top product, glad I got them.

Cheers for that Nick! I bought the Costa Del mar's today from angling direct. Easter 10% off took the sting out a little. Very pricey for sunglasses, but they'll get loads of use. I could never get on with plastic lenses tbh. Always had an issue with depth perception. Haven't worn cheap plastic lenses since I tried to take a step that was a foot closer than I thought it was and went down a flight of concrete steps. Ended up in a puddle of red mess at the bottom! All my other sunnies are rayban or Oakley. Not cause I have to have brands, just that the lenses don't distort things for me. I have one pair of plastics for cycling, as glass is just a no no for that, and they are as good as I can get. I tried many pairs to find some that didn't distort my vision. No good for fishing though. I have some wychwood plastic polarised ones which are acceptable for me at best, but they are rubish at glare reduction compared to some I've borrowed or been handed when I can't see a fish or feature. The quality glass lenses in the costa's will be fine, and reviews online and recommendation from yonny, I'm expecting as good as it gets for seeing through the surface. I'd only have spent it on beer otherwise!

Also maybe he was lucky! (If that's the right word) Lead in the glasses, blind in an eye. Lead straight in the eye, maybe dead!

Fair play what an awful thing to happen. I fully feel for the guy! I've only had to pull for a break a few times, and if I do I ALWAYS walk away from the lake with my back to the water with the rod pointing backwards under my arm and as low as possible. A lead in the back of the head could kill, yes, but I still figure the chances are better than getting it in the face or, you know, anywhere else!

10% Easter discount from angling direct seems as good an excuse as any! Bought the Costa Del mar black fins, real tree frames, 580G lenses in green. Proper stalky looking! I will be out for a walk around the lake as soon as they arrive, and shall report back. (If it ever stops raining that is!)

With a recommendation like that it would be rude not too! Found a pair online. Real tree Camo frames, 580G lenses. Yeah, little pricey those! In the basket waiting for pay day. Cheers.

Perhaps I was a little pedantic.

Looking for a new pair of polarised sunglasses as they will be a key bit of kit on the lake I'll be fishing this year and my current ones aren't too much cop. After some recommendations please guys. Don't care how much. Don't care too much what they look like. Just looking for superb performance for cutting through the glare and seeing what's going on under the surface. Thanks.

So a HSR then? Not a chod rig.

No the fish only gets its face smashed in if there is slack between the bottom of the hooklink and the lead, which if the bottom bead is used correctly there won't be. Point of fact I never use chod rigs, as for my money there are better ways of presenting a pop up in any situation than a chod rig, so my lead is always at least 6 inches from the hook anyway. The heli safe stopping the fish getting its face bashed in assumes firstly that there will be slack between the hook and the lead while playing the fish, which there shouldn't be, and assumes that the lead will snag up on something during the fight, which It shouldn't. If the line snaps the leader will sink under its own weight, but the heavier end will sink first/further. If that is a lead then the end the fish can escape from will trail up allowing the fish to escape. If there is no lead then the longest length of leadcore will sink. Given that during the fight this will invariably be the end that the mainline was attached to there is a much higher chance of this end snagging up. The fish cannot get past what is left of the heli safe system so will be totally teathered. I agree that a safe rig is one that allows a fish to be landed, but not with a total lack of consideration for what happens if it goes wrong. A good safe rig will take both into account, which this doesn't.

I fish helis a lot. In my opinion the lead release system for heli setups is the most dangerous item of tackle in recent years, dressed up as a safety system. It is only useful in helping to get rid of the lead while playing the fish, but as some have said, if the rig slips down to the lead when the line to the hook is tight the lead is unlikely to snag up anyway and won't give the fish a black eye! In the event of a crack off or a line break, the best situation if you ask me is that the lead snags up leaving the fish to swim away from it, off the leader, and only left with the rig to deal with. If the lead is gone the line/leader could well snag up as it's likely the long side, and the fish would be totally tethered as what's left of the lead release system would stop the fish freeing itself. This is one of the few items of tackle available that even when used correctly is still dangerous if you ask me. There are very few items of tackle available that are dangerous by design, although very many ways of setting them up that are dangerous, including leadcore, lead clips, leaders, even swivels and quick release clips! All of which are perfectly good useable items of tackle. All of which can create a death rig if used incorrectly.

Saying what everyone has said, but, if it's working why change it. That said, and in the vein of answering your actual question, I use a multi-rig every time I use a pop up, and that will either be on a helicopter rig or a lead clip depending on the lake bed. If I'm not 100% sure it's a hard base, it's a helicopter. If I'm aiming at a small spot and may miss, it's a helicopter! If it's silty, weedy, choddy, it's a helicopter. I find the dark matter leaders with the no trace bead system very good. It's the only setup I use a leader for rather than tubing. Needs must. Rig foam, hmm, yes. I love the fact that it sits bolt upright until it melts off then drifts down, and I like a target for baiting too when it floats up, but with a multi rig I find sometimes the foam causes a tangle. Not with a bottom bait rig though, strange. Anyway I feel that as the lead sinks the rig slips up to the top bead anyway, so it'll be well clear of the deck when the lead plugs and therefore sink nicely into position. Good enough for me. Personally I find a flying back lead, and often a normal back lead under the tip, fished with a light bobbin and a fairly tight mono mainline gives a nice sensitive and well on the deck presentation and bite indication. I'm not so keen on flourocarbon and slacks with a helicopter. "Drop backs" when the fish pulls the lead out of the silt are key to knowing you've had a take and getting on the rod quickly.

Hahaha! Yeah if I could train carp like dogs I'd never blank!

As an ex professional dog trainer I will say this: If you were to list out the majority of points of advice in this thread and action them you would possibly ruin your dog for life. If that is a little over dramatic based on the situation it is only because of her breed. A sensitive collie, you definitely would, a lab maybe a little more bomb proof. None of it is wrong as such, just to generic to be given without context. Eg, someone mentioned a clicker. Well you need a very good command of what it is, what it does and why it works for it to work. The amount of people I see using a clicker as a recall command, or to make their dog sit etc etc makes me cringe! I could write you pages of advice and info on dog training, how dogs learn, how various techniques will work/not work and why, but without seeing and working with you and the dog all I would be doing is telling you how to dog train, not how to train your dog, and get the best from her and correct the issues you are having. My advice would be to find a good behaviouralist and invest in one or two sessions with them. Considering you'll be living with your dog for 14 years, and a good trainer will give you real relevant ways to correct your specific issues in one or two hours it would be a good investment. Where are you based? I know trainers up and down the country. If you happen to be local to me I'll do it myself for free. Love your dog, enjoy her, and take advice from those that know, not those that think they know. One or two well trained dogs does not a dog trainer make. Sorry if this post sounds harsh. I don't mean to sound arrogant, Just I know what it takes to get good at this stuff, and it is something that people often take too lightly. The wrong advice can be damaging and you have to live with the consequences. That being said, nealjt's last post is a good one. A behaviour that doesn't get the desired response will change or disappear. apart from the compressed air bit though, which is used as an unconditioned positive punisher, and a correct gauge of reaction and understanding should be gone through before using it. Can be good, can be useless, can be bad. Depends.

Depends on what you want from the rig, and what lead system you'll be fishing it with. A lead clip system with an anti tangle sleeve and tubing over the swivel and something like 12lb flourocarbon mainline or even a semi-stiff coated braid will sit and reset just fine. If you're fishing it on a heli lead or something with more in-tubed swivels or loose movable points you may want a stiff coated braid or a thicker flourocarbon hooklink material to guarantee the boom will kick out straight on the cast and after a pick up. I would be thinking "what do I want the rig to do in the water, and what will make it do this or not do this" rather than just "what material is commonly used." Also, use a different rig altogether if you want the same effect but the conditions aren't right for it. A variation that has a similar effect that I use a lot is a multi rig made from soft coated braid with the entire single strand section stripped and a small loop for the hook. The double coated section acts as a chod rig, and the rest acts as a supple boom link that will still kick out if a lead isn't dragging it down but will lay over anything. This on a heli lead system will fish over pretty much anything. On a hard bottom I'd want a stiffer boom and a lead clip. Depends.

I've used PVA mesh bags on a hinged rig easily enough before. Just thread the braided section of the rig back through the mesh bag like you would with a stick on a basic rig, take it to the end of the braid and hook the chod type bit of the rig into the mesh at the top of the bag. Pretty much the same theory. Not much difference from fishing a pop up on a supple hook link in a solid PVA bag, except that my way can be fished over soft ground on a helicopter style rig, the lead burries into the bed leaving a pop up over a pile of chops. Guarantees no tangles and good presentation pretty much as well.

well I meant PVA on one rod and choddy on the other, but coming up with a way of combining them could be a goldmine!

Ah thanks guys! That vid is good. Was thinking PVA and chod to start with. I'll be getting there reasonably late on Friday so I won't have time to do a lot of feature finding. Shall probably chuck a solid bag and a chod out with a few freebies for the first night and go from there. Pop ups do ok then? Lob worms would be a new one for me! Happy to give it a bash though!

As per the majority of "this or that" rig questions it really depends on what you want to achieve. Personally I try and keep metal work to a minimum on my rigs and tie the hook link material straight to whatever the lead system requires. If it's a chod or helicopter setup, then straight to the ring swivel that will slide on the leader, if I'm fishing a lead clip or an inline then straight onto the swivel that will fit in the clip or lead sleeve. If I'm going to have to keep taking the hook length off for sticks, or new rigs etc then I'll use a rig ring and a small quick change something or other. Any metal work slides into the lead, the clip, an anti tangle tube, or gets covered with rig tubing. Nice and neat. I think exposed swivels in rigs are a big cause of tangles. They don't keep the rig separate from the mainline on the cast enough for my liking. What kind of rig are you thinking of?

Off to fish Merrington for Friday and Saturday night next weekend. First time on this venue, even though it's close to me, I've never fished it before. Anyone on here fish there regularly? Any tips/info? What's the lake bed? Is it weedy? How about depth? Got brutalised repeatedly by swans on another lake this weekend, so I've vowed never to fish less than 4ft if there are swans on the lake! Thanks. Adam.