adamkitson

Yup, not dropping the lead and using a lead that will play through the weed is one train of thought, another would be that dropping the lead means spending much more time playing the fish above the weed rather than through it, meaning nothing can or will get snagged up. Said before on the leaders thing, I only use leaders for heli fishing where I want to retain the lead as I feel with a lead on the end, no trace bead, and every likelyhood of it snapping at the knot this actually gives the fish a much better chance of only being left with the rig than many other setups. I'd fish a heli with no leader if using a lead drop system, but it's not my favourite setup. My thinking with cracking the PVA bag with drop off inline is to be able to fish a tubing based setup, fish a bolt rig, fish neatly in a bag, and drop all weight from the line on the strike so as to play the fish up in the water. If the weed makes it bottom to top in the summer I shall think again. I have had a lot of runs on heli setups. By "screaming runs" I mean full on explosive one toners. What I usually get is a tightening up, maybe a bit of drop back, I'm usually on the rod by then. Only a couple of occasions I've struck into this air, mostly I connect, and I have had my fair share of runs. On the indication thing, on a heli I fish a back lead with a tightish line between the lead and the back lead and a light bobbin. My thought on the take is that the leads remain in place and the line is moved by the rig giving indication almost immediately. It may help that I always set the top bead about a foot up, so it fishes more like a chod. As soon as the hook catches and the fish rises up it has the weight of the line like a clothes line creating tension but following the fish up and down in the water making it very hard to deal with. The fish trying to deal with it gives the "stop start" indication by which time I've hit it and set the hook. I am as confident as I possibly can be that the indication works very well. There is a swan or two on the lake I fish, and I get picked up by them regularly. As I can see them getting to the spot, and see them picking up the bait, and see the alarms at the same time I can honestly say that every pick up is registered on the alarms. I can't see how it would be conceivably possible for the lead to be moved from the hook without indication. Dragging from the bottom bead, bobbin pulls up. Dragging from the top bead, drop back. In fact if you think about it the heli setup is the most like a running rig, as the fish can move and give indication without moving the lead. Of course fishing this type of lead setup on a slack line would just be stupid!

That would be my thinking too. Another thing I've found to work in a tank test, once the bag is tied up, tie a couple of pva nuggets to the side of the bag you want up. Pretty well always lands well. My bags, with pop ups, doesn't really matter which way up they land cause as you say, the popup will work its way to the top.

Yup, totally agree that I would only want it to pop up by 1 - 1.5 cm. Anything higher and it'd look un-natural to me. Pretty much the eye of the hook would be near enough on the deck with the popup above. The idea is that it still looks like part of the pile of food from the bag but works its way to the top so is likely to be the first item taken every time. The popup requirement in my thinking is that I feel that a popup fished like this with an inline (drop off) is more likely to result in a hook up the first time it is taken, or at least give some indication. For me bag fishing is one hit. I don't want the rig done a few times while the fish eat the bag mix, leaving only the hook bait and a few crumbs for hours. Not really the right rig for that.

Don't think it would get the presentation I'm after unfortunately. Have experimented with pop ups just on a supple link and it just doesn't seem to get the effect. Sounds great for a bottom bait though!

Just my thoughts but I would swap your budget around. Personally I have a fox royale 1 man bivvy and it does the job well. They are about £150 new, leaving you a bigger budget for a decent bed chair. A more expensive bivvy likely won't change your session, but an uncomfortable night trying to get some kip on a budget bed could put you right off! I have an SS3 and I love it! £320 for a bedchair is a lot, but it's about as comfy as my bed at home!

Yeah that's how I'd fish a bottom bait in a bag. Just interested in popup ideas too. Can't hurt to have more weapons in the armoury!

Hmm, that's an interesting thought. A solid bag threaded onto a multi rig like a stick, Shall have to try that! Doesn't really help with this problem though. For some background, it is becoming very obvious that on the lake I'm fishing this year, dropping the lead is a good idea! It is shallow, and weedy. Not awful, but in a lake that's only 4/5 feet deep, a couple of feed of weed and it is beneficial to play fish up in the water! I usually fish helicopter with a leader, and a multi. That way I'm pretty sure I'm getting presentation in the low weed. As the weed gets deeper though I think a little added attraction will help them find it quicker, so, solid bag with a pop up and a drop off inline lead fished on tubing pretty much ticks all the boxes. I need something that will sit nicely on a clear patch, but will still fish if it ends up in the weed. Also the "bolt" element of this setup sits well with me. I've been fishing heli's for a while, and only had a couple of real screaming runs. I don't think I need to worry a lot about the hookbait being on top of the pile. I'm going to be using a bag mix of very small pellets, a bit of groundbait and boillie crumb. Shall probably bung some liquids in there too. The pop up will match the bag mix anyway unless I give a fluoro a try. I think it'll need to pop up maybe an inch or less. Pretty much just so it works its way to the top of the pile when the bag melts. Generally I always bung a pop up in there to use as a marker to aim the freebies at. Had the idea of pva threading this to the hookbait so it pulls it out of the bag mix and sits it back on top when it melts, but I think I prefer the idea of the popup just making its way tot he top of the mix.

For me the hooking mechanics of a multi are unrivalled. It sits like a choddy with less of a curve, but still a nice aggressive down facing hook, and if you ask me the softer material makes it harder for a fish to deal with. I will definitely have a try with pop ups on a supple braid. Would be nice and simple.

Surely that's a breach of the "no swearing" rules CM? I do occasionally use a version of a combi/stiff hinge rig by tying a 1 inch chod rig to a length of coated braid, pulling the knot tight strips a nice clean hinge, then putty on the knot. Usually for me a multi is more suitable though, and much simpler to tie.

Anyone got any good rig suggestions for pop ups in solid bags? I'm thinking a D rig with un-stripped N trap, an inch after the hook coated with the rest stripped and a weight/putty to hold it down. Or a small multi rig stripped completely after the hook loop. Just trying to think of ways to get a good pop up presentation, without the rig mis-shaping a lot in the bag. Simple hair rig with a pop up on and putty won't get the pop up presentation I want I don't think, and a stiff hooklink section could easily get bent when packing the bag. Any thoughts?

Yeah that's what I use them for. Solid bag. Nothing better for it IMO. Just you said you use them for everything. So do you always fish a solid bag in weed, chod and silt? Just interested. I wish I could get a bait to present properly on these bottoms with an inline lead.

Interesting. I love an inline pear, fished drop off, but I don't use it much as I would only trust presentation on a rock hard/gravel bottom. Do you use this setup even on a silty / choddy bottom? How do you deal with the lead plugging and dragging the rig in with it?

+1 from me for avoiding inline leads over clay. Takes very little for the lead to plug even if the bed is mostly soild. Inlines for me only in PVA bags or on solid gravel. I was fishing clay this week. Always testing rigs before chucking them out. I found that a fluoro hooklink on a lead clip worked fine. I was fishing a wafter on a d rig which was fairly well invisible. The whole hooklink would lie flat with the bait settling nicely with the bait sitting on top. Always kicked away from the lead, and I was confident of a good reset. Good idea if you ask me to make sure that a swivel link is available with fluoro, i.e. not fully covered by anti tangle/tubing, as for the hook to turn and hold with this material the turn comes from the swivel as it won't twist like a supple braid.

Looked into braid, probably stick with a mono and fluoro for now. Thanks for the tip though.

Hmm, hadnt considered braid. Never used it before. Research time! Cheers.

Just wondering if anyone had used these specific lines really, and if so what were there experiences. I know some that have great marketing and sound good on paper, but are generally disliked.

Oh and it's shallow. Without the security of depth to head for they are reputed to head off like trains, and the 4 I hooked certainly backed that up. Lost 40 yards to one that I lost on its first run.

It's weedy in places, snaggy in others, islands to get around and between. My spools loaded with 12lb mono and 15lb fluoro from a year on bare bottomed day tickets feels a little inadequate. I want the option to be able to pile on the pressure when/if required without worrying about even coming close line wise.

So after my first trip to my new sindi, couple of fish on the bank and learning about the place already, I've decided to up my main line strength. While I'm doing this I thought I may as well have a look around at some different lines, seen a couple I like the look of, wondering if anyone has used them and has any opinions or experiences. Lines are: Nash NXT D-cam mono Daiwa floorit super soft fluorocarbon They both come in 18lb which will be ideal, and aren't ridiculously expensive if they're any good. Thanks.

Yup, fully aware of the reason for the term "safe zone." I couldn't agree more. In my posts I have said that the only rig I use a leader of any kind on is a rotary rig, and I invariably use dark matter/safe zone for this mainly because of the relative lack of kinking possibility and the no trace bead. For all other lead setups I use tubing. I'm happy with lead clips. Caught two on them yesterday and the lead was gone on the take. That for me is ideal in most situations. I don't feel the need to always fish a running rig on tubing, but I know some do and fair play if that's their choice. I'm lucky that this is all I need. I'm not a big caster. I favour fishing up to 60 yards, not much past, as I have more confidence in my accuracy when baiting up at shorter ranges. So I have no need for a shock leader at all. I can comfortably put a 2-2.5 oz lead to the usual 30-40 yards risk free just on main line. Shock leader followed by leadcore followed by rig!?! That sounds like a teathered fish waiting to happen!

Anyway, if anything I've said on this or any other thread has come across as unconsidered or argumentative then I apologise, and assure you, it is unintentional. There are so many opinions, so many rules, so many options available. Some lakes have barbed hooks only, some barbless only. Some bean mats only, some cradles only. Some safe zone only, some no safe zone. Etc etc etc. I think it's fair to say that any conscientious carp angler considers the safety of their quarry when setting up in any fishing situation. There is inherent risk to the fish just by fishing for it. i guess what we've experienced personally is what shapes what we see as safe or not.

And So I've never fished a situation where I've needed a shock leader. Perhaps I should have specified that I meant shorter concealment leaders such as lead core/safe zone etc. Apart from that your saying exactly what I said back to me.

You could say the same about a 6" braided hooklink with a swivel on the end! Leadcore is in my opinion as safe as the user makes it. 10feet of anything apart from main line is frankly, ridiculous!

Yeah just from my own fishing, I use 1m leaders, they seem plenty long enough to me. Ahhh, is this where the "leadcore is lethal" argument comes from? People who use long lengths of the stuff? If so no wonder I've never really got it. Seems a bit of a small issue to be so hotly discussed, between leadcore or any other sinking leader, but yeah, if people are using 2m or more then I would probably have to readjust my thinking!

Yeah I'm not a fan of dropping the lead on a rotary rig with any kind of leader. Shall be playing around with the tubing approach, although it presents issues as well as solving them, and begs the question, what is the difference between leaving a fish with a meter of tungsten tubing, and leaving the fish with a meter long leader. I personally like the idea of a naked/on the line setup with a lead drop system, and a leader setup with a fixed lead. Always tubing for lead clips and safety lead drop setups with tubing for inlines. I'm out for a few nights later in the week, and can foresee myself using every one of those!