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Don't think I would ever have a complete cut off point muft , it's more about what I think would be the best chance of catching these showing fish & I lean towards zigs these days . Nige worked for a fish at horseshoe & worked out it was a short zig needed just above the weed , so it's just about finding that perfect depth sometimes .

Some of the lakes round my way change significantly from Spring into Summer with thick weed seemingly sprouting from nowhere. So even if you find a feature with a gismo, and even if you bait it regularly, you will most probably still have to cast a lead out to find the clear spot when you turn up to fish...…. Just couldn't use a fish finder myself, one lad was told in no uncertain terms what everyone thought when he started wazzing out a deeper pro in between swims that were being fished on a club lake I fished..... However, I watched a lad slaughter the same lake, during the Spring after mapping it out with a deeper pro during the Winter when no one was fishing..... Each to their own, but I don't think these kind of shortcuts will improve your fishing, you may even become reliant on them long term. I probably sound like an old fart, but, the spirit of angling for me, is watching, feeling , learning and eventually working it out for yourself with any clues you find along the way..... If you find a water that you love being at, then there's no rush imo.

Those quiet shows where they just poke their heads out to the gills are the ones you're looking for imo buddy. That is more often than not feeding fish. Obviously fizzing etc tells you everything you need to know too. That said, I'll not ignore the big boshes either. I think the really big leaps right out of the water are just them 'playing' for lack of a better word. It still tells you where the carp are though.

I let the fish tell me what to do. If I come across feeding fish I'll chuck a lead at them. If I get a drop i.e. if it's presentable I'll chuck a hookbait out, simple as that. Just a couple of chucks will tell you roughly the depth and type of bottom (soft/hard, clear/weedy) etc. That is all you need to know if the carp are feeding there. Depth I'm not particularly bothered about, if the carp are having it there then who cares? If I see concentrated/prolonged activity i.e. clear evidence that something special is out there I'll have a really good mark up at the end of the session (for future reference). If it's a silt bed I'd look for seams between the softer/harder areas. If it's gravel I'd look for the edges. If it's weed I'll find the most presentable. If I locate anything at all that seems different from the rest of the lake during a session it'll be noted. Different normally means good. I would never fish a spot I'd found through marker work without seeing fish activity. The best spot in the world is no good if there's no fish feeding on it.

Just get yourself a spod rod mate, most markers are to soft and will never reach where your fishing. Think about what you've got to get out there, heavy lead and marker float. I use a spod for both and just wrap a white piece of insulation tape around the butt section a foot up from the bail arm.

Get the spod rod first buddy. It can double up as a marker. Or just use your carp rods to mark up.

The honest answer is I have never used a fish finder, well with the exception of my own eyes. I have seen Guddler, an old member on here, using a finder attached to his radio control boat at Suffolk Water Park use one to work out the lakebed. That is he got the features mapped out for him on the screen, brilliant, could save a lot of time if you are not marker float and lead orientated. However, it does not tell you where the fish will come in to feed, or even the exact feeding spots😉 I have also had the pleasure of being able to go out in a boat to find features and map a lake, rowing over fish, watching their (occasional non) reaction, even lowering baits in from the boat. For years, pike anglers have been using fish finders on boats, discovering large shapes, fish in midwater, and it can give an idea where the fish are, although a pike resting midwater, it can take a lot of bait finding what it wants, or even watching it ignore everything. Your eyes can tell you so much, from slight swirls, to shows like rolling, coloured water, or even real jumping. Technology is brilliant, but the Mark l eyeball is more brillianter😖😉😅🐟

3 weeks to go, and I'm off to France with my daughter Lydia. We've booked a double swim, and I'm really looking forward to it. Never been to the venue (Genesis) before but have been advised that the swim we are in is a "large" double, with plenty of water in front of us. I have also been given advice to which parts of the swim are "holding spots" so will give Lydia the first option to fish those areas. We're going to have a little competition between ourselves, but ultimately we are there to help each other out..... I'll net for her, she'll net for me and we'll look out for each others rods. I won't be helping her other than that though, she has been fishing long enough to know what she is doing, and I can leave her to get on with it. The main aim of the holiday is to relax, and for Lydia to hopefully beat her pb, which currently stands at 22lb. Looking at the quality and size of the fish over there, she should do that. I'd like to beat mine, but if I don't I'm not too fussed. My only "concern" is that she loves to spend her time on social media, even when we're fishing. She is constantly posting on FB or texting her friends, which annoys me immensely. I'm going to get my own back on her by pitching my bivvy close enough to hers so that my snoring will drive her mad.......😉