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We used to place baits by boat at Taverham Mills, and as @yonny says it can look totally different to how it feels. You could cast a marker float and lead out and get absolutely no feeling as the lilies would stop the float rising, yet look at the area from the boat and they were very thin and safe to fish to. The line would cut through them playing a fish. Other spots (as on the syndicate now) I have the float rise up, yet it is thick with weed. It's wading out that has shown how thick it is and a big bundle of weed can be down to a small root system. My marker float is normally used with a 3½ or 4oz lead. Today I waded out after casting out the marker rod, and I was showing 2½-3feet, yet I was up to my chest.

Torrix all day.

It was to land a fish, not place a bait!

??????????? Brain doesn't compute! How can you be so against bait boats but go out in a boat? I have never fished a lake that allows boats but I can see how they can advance your knowledge of a lake either by prodding or using a scope.

I am leaning towards the torrix, they are a little more expensive (not much).

That's a Cracker!

So i am looking for some new rods. Looking at 2nd hand. Looking at the following. What would be your choice? Harrison torrix Harrison cerbera Free spirit e class Century FG

The other side

Jack taking it all in ❤️

This can work against you too though. I remember fishing an area a long time ago now and getting plenty of bites. But when I saw the area from the boat it looked nothing like it felt with a lead. In fact to look at I wondered how the heck I was getting bites from there due to the weed! Had I seen it before I fished it, I'd have not bothered, and not caught all those carp!

The fish do quite often come away from the islands where they spend most of their time and come in close, mainly early morning. You do get a lot of bubbling and I frequently chase the bubbles around but can't ever remember hooking one! I'm sure on reflection that the 3.5oz lead wasn't helping and a lighter one would improve the presentation. The bailiffs also frequently chuck out a load of pellets if a swim isn't being fished and that tends to land in the bowl area which was the deepest for silt. Good advice but luckily my sonar was spot on with the depth and there weren't any surprises. I am a pretty good swimmer and also I didn't find any trace of any weed. I learn't more about the lake in 5 minutes than I could have done for casting around or plumbing for hours on end and even then it would have given a false impression of what was really there. I used to know a top barbel angler years ago and on his first trip to a new stretch, he would "walk" the river to build up a better understanding of where the fish were likely to be.

🙄 😂

I don't know if you have read Carp Now and Then and Hutchy's Golden Years? He was a 'beast' of a caster as he had spent time sea fishing from the beach. I think your is saying exactly as I do in that in the case of the shorter rods, stiffer is being used to make up for length.

Cheers for all your help gents I have only ever used 12ft rods (currently 2.75lb TC). I like to be able to feel the fish even if they are not huge I will stick to the 12ft as that's my comfort zone. But was not ruling out 10ft in case this was the next "game changer". Most of the century/free spirit rods I see for sale are in the 3.25-3.5lb TC space. For me a little excessive for my fishing. Yes if I go to France I may need a higher TC, why 3lb are being considered. Maybe I will wait until I find some in 2.75 or 3lb TC.

That moment of realisation that this was nearly half a century ago and I'm an old git!😭

Tbf if you're going to catch a stocky you couldn't ask for a better one mate. Fantastic looking carp 👏

It wasn't that long ago (early 80s) that 10ft was pretty standard. It was Rod H that pioneered the 12ft carp rod by fitting a 2ft parallel butt onto some 10's. It was done solely to get distance on the likes of Savay. In the simplest terms, longer/stiffer is better for distance. If you can afford to have multiple sets of rods I think it's nice to have a shorter set for the right water. If you have just one set, you'd be mad to go shorter that 12 (imo).

When you're rig is buried it doesn't necessarily mean you have no chance of a bite. A lot depends on the type of silt. Carp have evolved to harvest the goodies in the silt so I wouldn't worry too much about being buried, unless it has a covering of that dead/dying silk weed type stuff (it can mask your hook as it gets kicked up during feeding). There is nothing more frustrating that having fish fizzing away all over you but you can't keep your rig clean enough to get a take. If you can find a spot clear of that horrible silky stuff, silt is about as forgiving as you can get in terms of tactics. You can chuck almost anything in it and get a bite. Made me chuckle 😅

Very much. Word of advice, never wade in without a wading pole; it can help you keep your balance as well as bottom prodding. The silt on my current lake is probably up to welly boot height, and then water up to my waist, so pretty similar, although the stream bed you can add a bit more to the depth. There are also feeding holes which can put you chest deep, and I have been known to occasionally go fractionally over the top of my chest waders, hence the advice on a solid wading pole. The honest answer is the carp feed in the silt. I have found massive bloodworm in the deepest thickest silt, along with massive swan mussels, bigger than my hands. I still use run rings and standard rig set-ups, hooklinks around 20-30centimetres in an attempt to put the bait at the level the fish are feeding at. Lead size I normally stick with 2.5-3oz, but use flattened leads to hopefully reduce sinking in too far, but even dropping a lead in the margins can see it disappear. Funnily enough, in May I cast out a 3oz lead, PVA stringer and snowman bait and I am positive that crashed quite deep into the silt. I had a take within a couple of minutes, and I think that the lead had sunk so far, complete with run ring it jammed as the buzzer was bleeping (Delkims vibration).

I have a feeling that higher test curve rods are needed in shorter rods as the 'standard' lower test curves won't cast as far; using weight instead of length to create the same casting force, just a theory mind, but seems right in my head. Then we have the 'Korda' theory, that they needed higher test curves even in 12ft rods to make up for lack of skill/practice to get distance. I've said it many times in the past that with 2¼lb North Western and Armalites I could get over 100metres, but I spent many hours across the field practicing. Even my 2.75lb SP's I could get over 120metres. My normal casting distance on the syndicate is no more than 40metres, and my 12ft 2.75lb Enduro and Sceptre rods do that and more, to 100metres easily. That's funny, that is quite literally all I do use shorter rods for, along with jungle stalking. Even my clearwater floater fishing rod is 11ft. @crusian if you can get the carp feeding right under the rod tip on floaters, a freelined dog biscuit, or lump of crust just touching the surface on the centre pin is great fun.

A bite at 03:30 on the final night, full moon night but a small stockie NOT a massive common, good to be catching. Just a single night next week, so will have to fit in where I can, could be a useful reccy of other areas.

Just got back from a weekend on a water I thought I knew pretty well. I caught a 21-9 fully scaled mirror and 13-2 common on a water that is fished 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in the warmer months so almost catching is a bonus. I've got a newish bait boat (sorry Yonny!) and it's got all the bells and whistles, GPS and sonar. The lake is at least 2 foot down as you can see the tide line on all the islands. I was getting a pretty steady 3 to 3.2 foot after the marginal shelf and sent the boat out to an island. Unfortunately I must have got a bit too close and managed to ground it! Over a grands worth of tech beached 50 yards away and I couldn't get it back to deeper water. Nothing else for it, roped in the bloke in the swim next door to help and then stripped down to my under crackers and waded in. The marginal shelf was clear and then I hit the silt, probably up to my knee. It was so thick, I was having to breast stroke to get through it. Luckily the sonar was spot on and the water didn't go above my belly button. There was a clearish channel between 2 islands where the silt was a lot less but there are also some aeration pumps nearby which probably helped to keep it clear. Luckily I have always tended to fish close to the islands and just at the bottom of the marginal shelf so I was probably fishing the best areas anyway. I wasn't expecting the silt to be anywhere near that thick and the sonar was only showing a clear bottom. After I got it back, I got out the marker rod and cast out a heavy lead and dragged it through the area I had just waded through and although it did feel like silt, I would have guessed it at a couple of inches at most. My local water is brick hard at the inlet end where I do most of my fishing and so a 3.5 oz lead is my weapon of choice and that's all I had in my bag. I normally fish a helicopter rig rather than a lead clip which is fortunate but now wonder how many times I've been buried with no chance of a bite. Just dug out a load of 1oz leads and probably won't use back leads on there again despite liking the fact that there isn't any line cutting through the swim. I try fluorocarbon on my reels every couple of years and then pretty soon realise why I hate it as a main line! Many years ago I did a compromise and fished a 30 foot leader of 20lb fluorocarbon but hated the way the knot clattered through the rings when bringing a fish to the net and gave it up as a bad job. Anyone else had experiences with silt?

Thanks for the response gents. I don't particularly want a 10ft rod and as an oldie is not a size I have ever used before. The reason I asked was I am seeing an increasing number for sale, maybe others are not getting used to them. Most of the 12ft rods I am seeing for sale 2nd hand are 3.5 or 3.25 TC. I usually go for a 2.75 and maybe push to a 3lb TC. This is mainly because I have this feeling a 3.25 or 3.5lb TC rods are a bit overkill for me. My fishing is not often on large venues where I need to cast 60-70 yards. And fish are generally up to about 30lb. Am I wrong in thinking 3.25 or 3.5lb TC is too high for mid size venues where you are only really needing to cast 30-40 yards on average. I fancy a set of Free Spirit rods (I have a 9ft stalking rod that is great). Possibly e class in 12ft.

With age, unfortunatly comes cynicism, suspect @salokcinnodrog, is probably right. @BackInTheGame, why do you actually feel you need the shorter rods? oh and the rest of the stealh stuff that is probably associated with them too? In perspective, I still have a 9 foot Wychwood extractor, I used it at a small Dorset lake years ago for margin fishing with a centre pin, probably the most enjoyable carp fishing I have had for years, but on everyday carp fishing I do now, just not an option and can't see the point really? 👍