Fish finder pics

[...]

5 minutes ago, kevtaylor said:

I've been predator fishing with an expert, we're using 'Lowrance Active Target' and you can see what the fish is and roughly whether its a whacker or not - very exciting trust me!

I've got a bait boat with Raymarine Dragonfly Pro 5 and again with the size of the arches you can kinda see if a whacker or not and the bottom detail is next level, I can see individual weed strands on one side on the screen and colour coded bottom hardness on the other side - pretty epic tbh

That was the reply from Deeper I got this morning.... 

[carpepecheur]

I can assure you Highy, that you can never be certain what the reflections you see on the screen of an echo sounder represent. I spent a substantial part of my working life hunched over a very expensive echo sounder running exactly the same sounding lines year after year.

I can say that I have picked up many sharks on an echo sounder. Sharks do not have a swim bladder. How do I know they were sharks? … I could see them!

A good indication of a potential fish are the parabolic reflections (or fish arcs in marketing speak) you get as you move over a fish and the measured distance to it changes. The thickness of the line forming the arc can indicate the size of the fish.

You only get an echo from a change in density. The strength of the echo depends on how much the signal has been attenuated (absorbed) during its path, the degree of density change it reflects off, and the angle at which it strikes it.

It helps to understand the physics of sound. A low frequency (wide angle) will penetrate further than a high frequency (narrow beam). So a low frequency helps locate a solid bottom beneath silt whereas a high frequency will show weed better.

The science is very simple. Understanding the results is incredibly complicated. There is no substitute for experience but the Deeper software does a pretty good job at interpreting the results for the average layman.

I assumed your post was Deeper's reply but, having read it, I still can't get my head around CHIRP technology. 

[...]

6 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

I can assure you Highy, that you can never be certain what the reflections you see on the screen of an echo sounder represent. I spent a substantial part of my working life hunched over a very expensive echo sounder running exactly the same sounding lines year after year.

I can say that I have picked up many sharks on an echo sounder. Sharks do not have a swim bladder. How do I know they were sharks? … I could see them!

A good indication of a potential fish are the parabolic reflections (or fish arcs in marketing speak) you get as you move over a fish and the measured distance to it changes. The thickness of the line forming the arc can indicate the size of the fish.

You only get an echo from a change in density. The strength of the echo depends on how much the signal has been attenuated (absorbed) during its path, the degree of density change it reflects off, and the angle at which it strikes it.

It helps to understand the physics of sound. A low frequency (wide angle) will penetrate further than a high frequency (narrow beam). So a low frequency helps locate a solid bottom beneath silt whereas a high frequency will show weed better.

The science is very simple. Understanding the results is incredibly complicated. There is no substitute for experience but the Deeper software does a pretty good job at interpreting the results for the average layman.

I assumed your post was Deeper's reply but, having read it, I still can't get my head around CHIRP technology. 

All this about Tech inside a tennis ball size gadget.... Yes it was Deeper reply. 

[carpepecheur]

1 hour ago, Highy said:

All this about Tech inside a tennis ball size gadget.... 

In my day, the equipment needed to do everything the Deeper does now, cost several tens of thousands of pounds and weighed around 200 kilos. For me, the Deeper is a miracle in a tennis ball.

The biggest omission is not to be able to put in a tide height. This means that if your water level changes between sessions, as it does on the big reservoirs near here, you can't match up surveys done at different times of the year. 

[kevtaylor]

5 hours ago, Highy said:

That was the reply from Deeper I got this morning.... 

I've gotta get one, we've used my mates on a deep pit but didn't find any fish of note but worked perfectly showing weed, depth and bottom variation.  We also hung it over the side of the boat whilst predator fishing - brilliant having the fish shapes and ding noise when a shoul passes under - so exciting, but I think you can change that to the arches you see on other systems and that  can show if a fish is big or not more accurately apparently- I no nothing just starting out so could be getting mixed up.

This is a poor photo taken off the screen of a Lowrence system, not sure which but I love the detail of the wreck we were fishing and in some pics you could clearly see the Zander- what a day, loved it.  Will try to get better pics next time.

 

 

[kevtaylor]

This is the Raymarine Dragonfly 5 Pro bait boat screen.

A the back end of a plateau on Mallard, Bluebell.

Left screen, the more red at the surface the harder the ground, left screen shows weed etc.

It will show more but I'm learning.

 

[kevtaylor]

Last one - and the worst pic, but what an amazing shoul of prey fish I found in a corner of Bluebell Lake, in both opposite corners actually - the other shoul was about 20ft round - top to bottom, this much smaller about 8ft round.

 

[salokcinnodrog]

12 hours ago, carpepecheur said:

In my day, the equipment needed to do everything the Deeper does now, cost several tens of thousands of pounds and weighed around 200 kilos. For me, the Deeper is a miracle in a tennis ball.

The biggest omission is not to be able to put in a tide height. This means that if your water level changes between sessions, as it does on the big reservoirs near here, you can't match up surveys done at different times of the year. 

With all the posts on this thread, I'm glad I split it away from the Tackle and Equipment thread it was on.

 

 

I found the difference in water depth was easy enough from the bank WITHOUT a fish finder, in fact probably easier, as mapping by hand (if anyone ever saw my Earith map @elmoputney  ) and with a marker float you have bankside references or aiming points, whereas with the Deeper you would still have to reference it in note form. 

The high and low water points can be quite off putting. I think Earith lost a metre of water depth, and Alton was 3 or 4metres, and you could gain an extra 10metres of bank as the water dropped, however some features that produced fish in full reservoir times, could also produce in low water times, yet some were totally above water when the water was low. 

A feature that produced fish when it was 8ft deep, (marker float counting hence in feet) still produced when it was 20ft deep.

 

I mention cross references in note form, on the Deeper can you put in GPS positions or does it have to be additional notes?

Obviously reason I ask is that sea going boats do have regular fishing marks that captains use and fish regularly, and they would have to be GPS.

 

 

[carpepecheur]

54 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I found the difference in water depth was easy enough from the bank WITHOUT a fish finder, in fact probably easier, as mapping by hand (if anyone ever saw my Earith map @elmoputney  ) and with a marker float you have bankside references or aiming points, whereas with the Deeper you would still have to reference it in note form. 

 

The way I use a Deeper is to search for a mark, towing it behind a bait boat. When I am over the mark, I drop a self levelling marker float from the bait hopper plus some bait at the same time.

 

I think we should call these devices echo sounders. "Fish finder" is a misleading marketing description.

Edited April 26, 2022 by carpepecheur

[...]

10 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

The way I use a Deeper is to search for a mark, towing it behind a bait boat. When I am over the mark, I drop a self levelling marker float from the bait hopper plus some bait at the same time.

 

I think we should call these devices echo sounders. "Fish finder" is a misleading marketing description.

I dont necessary use for fish, try to find spots, holes,bumps etc.... If fish are there/near then a bonus.

Like at weekend, if I didn't use the Deeper, I wouldn't of known about how much weed was in that place without it, I did also drag a lead through, it did help to find smaller weedy areas. 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

With all the posts on this thread, I'm glad I split it away from the Tackle and Equipment thread it was on.

 

 

I found the difference in water depth was easy enough from the bank WITHOUT a fish finder, in fact probably easier, as mapping by hand (if anyone ever saw my Earith map @elmoputney  ) and with a marker float you have bankside references or aiming points, whereas with the Deeper you would still have to reference it in note form. 

The high and low water points can be quite off putting. I think Earith lost a metre of water depth, and Alton was 3 or 4metres, and you could gain an extra 10metres of bank as the water dropped, however some features that produced fish in full reservoir times, could also produce in low water times, yet some were totally above water when the water was low. 

A feature that produced fish when it was 8ft deep, (marker float counting hence in feet) still produced when it was 20ft deep.

 

I mention cross references in note form, on the Deeper can you put in GPS positions or does it have to be additional notes?

Obviously reason I ask is that sea going boats do have regular fishing marks that captains use and fish regularly, and they would have to be GPS.

 

 

You still have the same bankside references with a deeper though, to me it is basically like a marker float only one that tells you a little more info 

Sadly I doubt your map would still be accurate, the pads and weed has changed a lot of previously great features, 

I tend to use my deeper as and when I need to find a spot,a rarely even look at the maps I've made, tbh I have used a bare marker lead and a deeper on Virginia both have a place because I don't think either tell you the complete story 

[salokcinnodrog]

21 hours ago, elmoputney said:

You still have the same bankside references with a deeper though, to me it is basically like a marker float only one that tells you a little more info 

Sadly I doubt your map would still be accurate, the pads and weed has changed a lot of previously great features, 

I tend to use my deeper as and when I need to find a spot,a rarely even look at the maps I've made, tbh I have used a bare marker lead and a deeper on Virginia both have a place because I don't think either tell you the complete story 

Oh definitely, waters change over time.

Wind and wave erosion can turn islands into sub surface plateaus. Weed beds move, enlarge or shrink.

I agree that neither marker float and lead or deeper tells you everything. If anything, only getting in the water can tell you more, and that can be fraught with risks.

Neither an echo sounder nor marker float can tell you that the depression in the silt is or was a feeding spot, nor that the gravel patch has actually got a layer of silt on it and is currently being left alone, or the carp have cleared the gravel by feeding heavily on it.

Something with leading around is that certain weed does not clog, drag  or hold up the lead, it can actually feel clear during the day.  Yet other types of weed as soon as you attempt to drag back you feel them and even pull some in on the lead itself.

The Deeper will or may only show weed, not what type. 

The two may need to be used in conjunction if allowed on the venue, but if Echo Sounders are banned then the marker float and lead is still going to give you very useful information that potentially Deeper can't.