Considering New Rods

[TnCarper]

I've been thinking of upgrading my rods, but my budget is very limited, so I've found a few inexpensive rods that I'm asking if somebody can give me a opinion on. All are 12' 3Ib test curves I'm considering.

They are:

Nash KNX Colt

Prologic C1

Fox EOS

And the Daiwa Mad Dragon, which I think is the Daiwa Black Widow, but rebranded for the American market for some reason.

Thanks in advance.☺

[salokcinnodrog]

The big question is what rods do you currently have?

 

In UK the prices are around £40 for each of them, and the Mad Dragon are around in $ 60.

 

While you say upgrade, that is the reason for my question as these are essentially entry level rods, as your first rods, not necessarily an upgrade. I would also personally be avoiding Nash!

 

In America you actually have one of the best blank building companies, who also manufacture and supply some of the best rod guides in the World, (that even Shimano, Fox, Daiwa and others are now using), in Pac-Bay.

You could create and custom build your own rod with their equipment for roughly double what you would pay in UK for the rods you have mentioned.

Don't tell anyone, but the big name IM7 carbon blank is a Pac Bay blank, and now used by various companies for their mid range rods.  UK around £130

[TnCarper]

The rods I currently have are two 12ft 2.75tc NGT Carp Max rods, basically the cheapest of the cheap. They do a decent job, but they are a bit on the heavy side, and thick too. Also, they can't really cast that far, maybe to 125-150ft, which is fine in most instances by far, but there may be times I need to go further. Thats one reason I'm also thinking of a 3Ib test curve, to possibly get more distance if I need it, while not having too stiff of a rod that it increases hook pulls and possible mouth damage to the fish.

[smufter]

 

On 27/03/2018 at 09:17, TnCarper said:

And the Daiwa Mad Dragon, which I think is the Daiwa Black Widow, but rebranded for the American market for some reason.

Just checking the specs on the Mad Dragons and the KNX Colts and I see they are a carbon/fibreglass composite blank, whereas the Black Widows are carbon. There won't be a lot of difference, maybe just a few grams but if you tried the two side by side I can almost guarantee you'd find the Widows a better casting tool.

Prologic are a very underated manufacturer, their rods tend to get good reviews over here. 

My money would be going into the Fox's personally. But watching the video for them they look a bit "tippy" to me, so for distance I'd be tempted to go for the 13ft 3.5 model. That will give you the distance you need and it doesn't look like they are pokers.

But what do I know......

 

 

[kevtaylor]

On 27/03/2018 at 18:54, salokcinnodrog said:

In America you actually have one of the best blank building companies, who also manufacture and supply some of the best rod guides in the World, (that even Shimano, Fox, Daiwa and others are now using), in Pac-Bay.

I bought an American 9ft lightweight sea spinning rod, said to be great!

I snapped it on the cast - clean break so a manufacturing fault, happy days! 

Edited March 29, 2018 by kevtaylor

[B.C.]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 09:17, TnCarper said:

I've been thinking of upgrading my rods, but my budget is very limited, so I've found a few inexpensive rods that I'm asking if somebody can give me a opinion on. All are 12' 3Ib test curves I'm considering.

They are:

Nash KNX Colt

Prologic C1

Fox EOS

And the Daiwa Mad Dragon, which I think is the Daiwa Black Widow, but rebranded for the American market for some reason.

Thanks in advance.☺

For the budget you mentioned, the Wychwood 101 or 201  range are worth a look. A friend has some 3.25 tc, for a couple of seasons and they do the job. Atm, over here , you can pick them up for around £40 with Duplon handles, slightly more for cork handles....(101's). The 201's come in a bit dearer at approx. £50

I can't vouch for any that you listed in the OP.... But I've used budget Fox in the past and found them to be ok too.....

[B.C.]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 03:24, TnCarper said:

125-150ft,

50 yards?..... Are you sure it's just the rods that are letting you down on distance?  Sounds quite a short distance imo.  Could also be spool size, type of mainline, or the sort of weight and shape you are trying to cast.....

.... Just a thought, and a few things that you could tweak to gain a bit more distance....

All the best 

[buzzbomb]

What B.C. said.  I found that every time I tweaked my gear, (filling the spool almost to the rim, wetting the spool of line before casting, switching from #15 to #12) I gained a little distance and using a 3oz lead could usually hit my spot at around 100 yds.  Buying a 3 lb rod or 2 didn't really buy me any more distance (neither did a 13' rod), but my casting with bags or stringers is so pitiful I wanted to try them anyway.

[Obsessed]

2 hours ago, B.C. said:

50 yards?..... Are you sure it's just the rods that are letting you down on distance?  Sounds quite a short distance imo.  Could also be spool size, type of mainline, or the sort of weight and shape you are trying to cast.....

.... Just a thought, and a few things that you could tweak to gain a bit more distance....

All the best 

I had those rods at one time, used them once and bought new rods immediately. For a newer angler, 50 yards sounds about right for keeping it accurate. You definitely can cast them further, but the rod is not stable enough to keep it very accurate.

[B.C.]

11 minutes ago, Obsessed said:

I had those rods at one time, used them once and bought new rods immediately.

Yeah, it's often a false economy buying the cheapest... Obviously budget comes into it for all of us. But an upgrade, should be exactly that. Save the pennies for batter rods if you can. Otherwise you are just buying like for like in most cases imo.

Welcome to the forum.

[David_gravesend]

4 hours ago, B.C. said:

For the budget you mentioned, the Wychwood 101 or 201  range are worth a look. A friend has some 3.25 tc, for a couple of seasons and they do the job. Atm, over here , you can pick them up for around £40 with Duplon handles, slightly more for cork handles....(101's). The 201's come in a bit dearer at approx. £50

I can't vouch for any that you listed in the OP.... But I've used budget Fox in the past and found them to be ok too.....

I have a pair of cork handled 101s, 50 quid each at the time on a water where I needed something with a bit of a backbone. They are fantastic for the money, highly recommended. It really is amazing how much did you can now get for your money in the 50-100 bracket 

[B.C.]

1 hour ago, David_gravesend said:

It really is amazing how much did you can now get for your money in the 50-100 bracket 

Compared to yester year I'd have agree. And for most of us they are adequate,,,, Every now and then, you just need that little bit of extra "something" in any kit. And I think that's where the kit in the upper price brackets earns it's keep.... Slowly getting round to upgrading my kit.... The Cotswold Aquarious Pond Creeper looks the biz,( not a rod, but a carryall) all British too, it's on the wish list..... More like dreaming list 

[TnCarper]

19 hours ago, B.C. said:

50 yards?..... Are you sure it's just the rods that are letting you down on distance?  Sounds quite a short distance imo.  Could also be spool size, type of mainline, or the sort of weight and shape you are trying to cast.....

.... Just a thought, and a few things that you could tweak to gain a bit more distance....

All the best 

The reels I have on them are Nash BP-6s, which are nice reels, but I certainly should have got a bit bigger reels, and I do like baitrunners better. The line is Gardner Hydrotuff in 15Ib, which is a good line for my case, as there are gravel and rocks galore in some places in my nearby reservoirs, and that style of line stands up to them a bit better. The leads I use tend to be both inline and swiveled pears, 1.5oz for running rigs, and 3oz for bolt rigs. Also use a varity of method feeders from less than a ounce, to 3oz.

17 hours ago, Obsessed said:

I had those rods at one time, used them once and bought new rods immediately. For a newer angler, 50 yards sounds about right for keeping it accurate. You definitely can cast them further, but the rod is not stable enough to keep it very accurate.

While I admit I'm not the best and most accurate caster in the world, I certainly get the impression they aren't the most accurate rods in the world. They are also thick, clunky, and heavy compared to a carbon rod. I actually had NGT's entry level carbon rods before I got the even cheaper glass ones, and they were good....until one shattered when I was making a cast with a mere 1.5oz lead and small pva stick....🙁

[B.C.]

4 hours ago, TnCarper said:

The reels I have on them are Nash BP-6s, which are nice reels, but I certainly should have got a bit bigger reels, and I do like baitrunners better. The line is Gardner Hydrotuff in 15Ib, which is a good line for my case, as there are gravel and rocks galore in some places in my nearby reservoirs, and that style of line stands up to them a bit better. The leads I use tend to be both inline and swiveled pears, 1.5oz for running rigs, and 3oz for bolt rigs. Also use a varity of method feeders from less than a ounce, to 3oz.

TBH  Tn, I'm up there with the worlds worst casters compared to most. Think it's years spent on small waters where 40 to 50 yards is enough.... And the kit I was using was geared up for this kind of fishing and with my bad casting technique, I struggled to hit 80yds, with a rig attached..... I had Shimano XTC 5500 reels and some old Fox Aquos rods that had softened up over time and had a 35mm Butt ring, great for playing fish on, but not great for casting too far.... I then went on to purchase some Shimano Tribal Velocity 3.25tc, with a 50mm butt ring and a larger 16mm tip ring, they were not expensive , around £50 at the time...And even with the small reels, the difference in distance was noticeable with the larger ring set, gained 20 odd yards without much effort.... Also switched to using a helicopter set up,with a 3oz zip lead which is designed with distance in mind. I was getting more distance with the Shimano rods, but went through a run of blank sessions, which in hind sight, could of been down to the heli set up affecting the sort of bite indication I was used to, I should of hit more of the single bleeps I was getting.... The run of blanks, got me all superstitious (madness I know).. So ditched the rods for some discounted Sonik S6, pretty much identical, same ring set and tc, got hold of some larger reels and can hit 100-120 yds now, purely down to a change of kit, my technique still sucks...... The next step for me is to improve my technique and then start going through some different mainlines, hopefully with some advice on the forum, having learned that most of the fish coming out on one of my water's are getting caught at 150yds. And only by a couple of guys that can hit that range. The fish have yet to really start moving around and are showing around a snaggy island at about 170 yrds..... A clear indicator, that having a long chuck in your armoury, is a definite edge over most anglers in certain situations..... Something I'll be working on this year.

[TnCarper]

35mm is what the butt rig on my rods looks to be...maybe less.  Also, one of the rods is a bit softer and less powerful then the other, and often get mixed up between the two, which is a pain sometimes.

Being accurate with my cast is something I really need to work on. I was decent with the much shorter, often 7ft rods I fish for other species with, but have a bit more trouble with the longer rods.

[B.C.]

I found my older softer rods to me more accurate, perhaps it's just because I used them for so long that I got to know them better. I could hit an area the size of a car bonnet at 70 yrds clipped up, between snags or overhangs no problem. I also think this was because I wasn't really putting my back into it, so it was a more controlled cast....... In trying to improve on distance, at this stage, I'm a bit less controlled, so accuracy suffers a little so far.. There's a lot to be gained from technique, and plenty of YT vids outlining feet and arm positioning, bit like a golf swing (not that I play golf), but if the ball hits the sweet spot on the club it goes further with less effort. The sweet spot in terms of casting, would be getting the feet and arm positioning correct and releasing the line/lead at the correct angle. Once that is mastered, then a bit more brute force can be added, after that, the fine tuning comes down to kit imo., ie lead size, mainline etc and possibly using a shock leader.

[salokcinnodrog]

12 hours ago, B.C. said:

I found my older softer rods to me more accurate, perhaps it's just because I used them for so long that I got to know them better. I could hit an area the size of a car bonnet at 70 yrds clipped up, between snags or overhangs no problem. I also think this was because I wasn't really putting my back into it, so it was a more controlled cast....... In trying to improve on distance, at this stage, I'm a bit less controlled, so accuracy suffers a little so far.. There's a lot to be gained from technique, and plenty of YT vids outlining feet and arm positioning, bit like a golf swing (not that I play golf), but if the ball hits the sweet spot on the club it goes further with less effort. The sweet spot in terms of casting, would be getting the feet and arm positioning correct and releasing the line/lead at the correct angle. Once that is mastered, then a bit more brute force can be added, after that, the fine tuning comes down to kit imo., ie lead size, mainline etc and possibly using a shock leader.

I got to the stage on a 100metre chuck I could hit that car bonnet with a stringer with my 2.75lb NG's, 40mm butt rings. It has taken me a lot longer to get used to the same with the 3.25 The Ones, and I can feel I am putting more effort into the cast with them, it just is not so controlled.

On one swim, my favoured spot was underneath a gap on an overhanging tree, a cast you really do not want to mess up!

 

On 30 March 2018 at 09:19, TnCarper said:

The reels I have on them are Nash BP-6s, which are nice reels, but I certainly should have got a bit bigger reels, and I do like baitrunners better. The line is Gardner Hydrotuff in 15Ib, which is a good line for my case, as there are gravel and rocks galore in some places in my nearby reservoirs, and that style of line stands up to them a bit better. The leads I use tend to be both inline and swiveled pears, 1.5oz for running rigs, and 3oz for bolt rigs. Also use a varity of method feeders from less than a ounce, to 3oz.

While I admit I'm not the best and most accurate caster in the world, I certainly get the impression they aren't the most accurate rods in the world. They are also thick, clunky, and heavy compared to a carbon rod. I actually had NGT's entry level carbon rods before I got the even cheaper glass ones, and they were good....until one shattered when I was making a cast with a mere 1.5oz lead and small pva stick....🙁

Not being funny, but I honestly think you could do with better reels as well. For such a supposedly 'Big Pit' reel, the line capacity of 270yards of 0.28mm diameter line is to put it bluntly pants. Even a Shimano DL 10000 size baitrunner holds more. (90yards is I reckon top cast with 0.35mm line on one of them).

 

You could improve distance with for example, because I use them, Shimano Beastmaster 7000's which are not mega bucks.

 

Put the bigger reels on a better rod, a few days feeling the two together and practising would not go amiss. Its likely your accuracy and distance would improve.

[B.C.]

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

On one swim, my favoured spot was underneath a gap on an overhanging tree, a cast you really do not want to mess up!

I had a far bank spot at 65 yard between two sets of gnarly old tree roots, dead clean bottom where I'd been baiting, caught quite a few from there, about 10 years ago now, until one of the green eyed members decided to cut himself a swim on that bank, right on top of the spot, taking out some of the roots in the process...... Needles to say, he messed it up for both of us. I could hit the 4ft gap with ease on the lighter rods at that range, but could only get 80yds max with that set up...... Haven't fine tuned any real tight spots on my new water, so it's open water casts to baited areas about 10mtrs squared up to 100yrds or so. There are plenty of snaggy coves like the one I described above, at shorter range, just haven't been able to get in those swims yet. The lighter set up will probably get a run out , when I do get in there. Until I get a better feel for the beefier set up, which is getting there slowly. Unless I get over there with an almost empty lake side (not likely for a few weeks).. Then it's just the one cast per rod atm on short sessions.... Need a 48hr over really to give them a good blast about, and get a proper feel.

[buzzbomb]

TnCarper don't spread it around, but to get an extra 20' - 25' just get a bottle of White-Out correction fluid and a very fine brush and paint a tiny DF on your rod down where the test curve is.

[TnCarper]

4 hours ago, buzzbomb said:

TnCarper don't spread it around, but to get an extra 20' - 25' just get a bottle of White-Out correction fluid and a very fine brush and paint a tiny DF on your rod down where the test curve is.

Would that DF happen to pretain to a certain Mr Fairbrass? One whose company has swivels that cost nearly as much as one of the rods do?

[buzzbomb]

22 hours ago, TnCarper said:

Would that DF happen to pretain to a certain Mr Fairbrass? One whose company has swivels that cost nearly as much as one of the rods do?

It was a cheap shot, he started out casting leads and driving around from lake to lake selling them (as I understand) and coinciding with a boom in UK carping made a business out of it.