Rig mechanics

[smufter]

Thanks for that geezer. Just ordered a couple of packs of the taska ones.... perfect!!

[smufter]

Public apology mate..... I must have dreamt it. I've just done a massive search myself convinced that I'd bought them.... On searching I noticed Thinking Anglers do a version, bit bulky and not cheap... Failing that, most of the standard bait screws look easy enough to open up to accommodate a micro swivel...... Sorry Smuft, my heads been all over the place this week.

No problem BC. Taska do what I wanted, courtesy of a link from Cyborx earlier. Have just ordered a couple of packs.

[smufter]

Just seen the link....  

I ordered two packs 'cos they are difficult to track down.

Seem perfect for what I want although the screw might be a little long at 18mm.

I can take a pair of wire cutters to those though.

   

[smufter]

I saw those, but they had discontinued them.... where did you get them from ?

I didn't get them in the end....    

 

Package arrived yesterday, opened it up and they had sent me two packs of standard bait screws, of which I have loads already!!

I contacted them to say they had made a mistake, they apologised and refunded me immediately, but confirmed that they don't actually have the swiveled version in stock.

Back to the drawing board.

   

[smufter]

Just to add (as it was too late to edit).

Found another ebay seller with them in stock (apparently) so ordered a pack from him together with a pack of the thinking anglers ones as well.

All these 4 quids here and there don't half add up at the end of the month.....

   

[smufter]

If not just open a bulk standard bait screw and insert a small swivel and pinch it back together. I can only assume that there wasn't much call for them.

Certainly going to give that a try. It's not like there is going to be any strain on the bait screw as it's only to hold the bait in place.

I have some lovely little size 20 swivels which would work a treat.

Why do I think that those thinking angler ones leaves the bait looking like it's sucking a dummy???!!!! lol!

   

[smufter]

BTW Smuft, looked back at my purchase history, it was bait screws with a single ring and some double ring swivels that I'd bought... And not what you were after

No problem mate.

While all these little bits and pieces add up cost wise, it's helping me out in a way.

My daughter Liddy is always "borrowing" bits and pieces off of me, and her boyfriend Tom has just started up carp fishing.

I have bought them both new rig wallets for Christmas, which have small click boxes in them for odds and ends.

I've loaded them both up with various swivels, connectors, bait stops, some pre-tied rigs, baiting needles, hooks, forceps etc. all the little "nick nacks" that you find you need during a session.

Should be much nicer than just being given an empty rig wallet on Christmas morning!!

  

[smufter]

 It's all those little bits and pieces that can be a pain to sort out 

It's certainly a pain trying to get them back off my daughter

[cyborx]

I didn't get them in the end....    

 

Package arrived yesterday, opened it up and they had sent me two packs of standard bait screws, of which I have loads already!!

I contacted them to say they had made a mistake, they apologised and refunded me immediately, but confirmed that they don't actually have the swiveled version in stock.

Back to the drawing board.

   

 

sorry bud :oops:

[smufter]

Wasn't your fault geezer!! No need to apologise

 

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[smufter]

They do look like dummies... Mr carp has been known to be hooked on the odd plastic bait, you never know it might add attraction.

Well they arrived this morning and to be honest. they look like they are going to be perfect for what I want them for,

The "dummy" part isn't as big as it looks in the pictures, and they sure have plenty of swivel.

Might just order a couple more packs because they will be ideal for bottom baits, wafters and pop ups.

[crusian]

I was told at my local tackle shop that the small Carp were so damn quick when they sucked in and spat out the bait that a longer hair meant the bait stayed their mouth's longer and therefore gave you more chance of hooking them .

However , the bigger Carp took a slower , more measured approach to eating bait .

 

Well that's what I was told anyway  .

[cyborx]

I was told at my local tackle shop that the small Carp were so damn quick when they sucked in and spat out the bait that a longer hair meant the bait stayed their mouth's longer and therefore gave you more chance of hooking them .

However , the bigger Carp took a slower , more measured approach to eating bait .

 

Well that's what I was told anyway .

Now THATS what is confusing me, you see that if the bait is in and out that fast the hook on a long hair wont even go into the mouth so therefore a short hair would work better yet the advice is to do the exact opposite?? Confused much.

Wasn't your fault geezer!! No need to apologise

 

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

damn this tapatalk

[xpl0rer]

I need the screw swivels! Can someone message mr a link to them please! Thanks in advance

 

X

 

Sent from my HUAWEI G6-L11 using Tapatalk

[smufter]

I bought these...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351875651210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

And these....

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231736317239?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

The first ones would be better if you are going into hard pop ups.

[salokcinnodrog]

I was told at my local tackle shop that the small Carp were so damn quick when they sucked in and spat out the bait that a longer hair meant the bait stayed their mouth's longer and therefore gave you more chance of hooking them .

However , the bigger Carp took a slower , more measured approach to eating bait .

 

Well that's what I was told anyway  .

  

Now THATS what is confusing me, you see that if the bait is in and out that fast the hook on a long hair wont even go into the mouth so therefore a short hair would work better yet the advice is to do the exact opposite?? Confused much.

 

damn this tapatalk

The hair length needs to be considered relevant to the size of the fish.

A 20lb carp has approximately 4inches to the back of the throat I guess, a 10lb fish probably half that.

 

Rod Hutchinson actually measured it for the invention of the extending hair rig he invented with a 28lb fish.

[gagnaccarp]

when i get some time to myself this Christmas  im going to look at some ideas regarding mechanics , a way of deflecting the hook into the carps mouth before ejecting , 

[cyborx]

  

The hair length needs to be considered relevant to the size of the fish.

A 20lb carp has approximately 4inches to the back of the throat I guess, a 10lb fish probably half that.

 

Rod Hutchinson actually measured it for the invention of the extending hair rig he invented with a 28lb fish.

 

Nick, i get the theory, i really do BUT!!

in practice it has got to let you down, say you are at a lake with mixed stock, say mostly lower doubles 8 - 15lb with a smattering of clunkers up to 30lb.

now, you are targeting the larger carp but would welcome any scaley item on the hook so you start off with your hair at 2", you then get a couple of hours of beeps so assuming you are getting dropped by the smaller stock and gagging for some action you drop the hair down to 1".

straight away then you get a screaming take and eventually net a corker of a mid 20 but the hook is way at the back of the mouth.

 

now according to the hair length theory posited by yourself, that should never happen!!

 

 

A short hair won't allow the bait the freedom to be sucked in, so the hook doesn't even go into the mouth.

If the hair is long enough the hook will follow it into the mouth, then with that hook following the carp 'realises' a foreign object is attached or the bait has something with it it shouldn't, so attempts to blow that foreign object out, giving the chance for the hook to pr ick into the lip.

The hair needs to be long enough for the hook to be taken in in the first place.

 

yet it has and does quite often so what the hell am i missing here?

if this were so then the D rig, german, and all others that utilise ultra short hair or other mechanics would just not work and everyone would be on long hairs up to 4" long??

god help me

[cyborx]

Nicks right to a degree but it seriously depends on the day, the short hair works one day, but the next, no contact runs, longer hair hits the mark, cant explain why, but thats how it is.

 

so i would say just use three rods with different rigs and see what works then??

[gagnaccarp]

Chod rig. ..... I did for a while use a multi rig pulled tight to create a stiff angle from the eye, like a safe bent hook rig, about ten years ago. It worked ok, albeit on a fairly heavily stocked venue where the fish were competing....... What confuses me as that most people assume the fish is trying to eject the bait.... surely it wants the bait and is trying to eject the non food items in this case rig bits. It's what a carp does all day long with gravel,weed,leaves etc...... I've had better results and good hook holds by adding a small weight to the out side of the bend of the hook, which pulls it down before it is ejected. It would be nice to hear about some of your rig experiments if you get the chance Gagna..

yep ! if i drunkenly stumble on anything this Christmas , besides the dog then i will post it up !

[crusian]

so i would say just use three rods with different rigs and see what works then??

 

Hello Cyborx

 

Well I've been having this problem of short hair or long hair all season , so I've changed to Pop Up Rigs ! .

So now all I have to do is position the boilie tight to the " shoulder " of the hook   , umm no I'm still having problems with missed bites and losing fish  .

[cyborx]

Hello Cyborx

 

Well I've been having this problem of short hair or long hair all season , so I've changed to Pop Up Rigs ! .

So now all I have to do is position the boilie tight to the " shoulder " of the hook , umm no I'm still having problems with missed bites and losing fish .

Love it [emoji12]

 

damn this tapatalk

[salokcinnodrog]

How and what the fish are feeding over can change hair length requirements, and you may not even know what they are feeding on.

You may be fishing over a previous anglers bait, be it particles, or groundbait, spod mix or boilies, or even fish troughing on bloodworm.

 

Say your long hair rig is giving you bleeps which you can't hit, so your answer is to shorten it, and the result is a mid 20.

It is quite possible that you are fishing over particles or groundbait, which is being sucked back, and in this case the hook is not following because the hair is too long for how the fish are feeding, maybe the hookbait is able to be blown out or even the hook is too heavy for the bait to be sucked in.

By shortening it over particles or broken down pellets, or even mushy boilies where fish are feeding confidently, the carp are not so wary of every bait.

 

As CM says, fish feed differently almost every day.

On some days they truffle and trough over any bait, ripping the bottom up, not inspecting anything, on others they inspect absolutely everything.

What type of lake and lakebed can also have some effect; you imagine that your bait is perfectly presented over a firm lakebed, sand, clay or gravel, and on such lakebed a longer hair is more easily utilised, if it's properly presented, whereas on a silty or weedy lakebed the carp aren't inspecting everything, and a shorter hair is or may be more effective.

 

Now it gets really confusing, almost everyone straightens the hair out, as they do with most of the hooklink as well, either by dragging back, or by using a piece of dissolving foam to keep the hair tangle free from the hook. In fact you may want the bait tight to the hook on the cast and touchdown to the lakebed, but able to extend afterwards, so you want the hair PVA'd or the nugget holding it to the back of the hook, and the bait close to the shank.

If it is already extended, then on 'suck', the bait can't be drawn to the carps mouth, and as it twitches, you get a bleep or two as a short bit of line is pulled through the lead clip.

By the hair and bait being tight, not extended and able to be sucked in, you create some confidence.

 

 

Nicks right to a degree but it seriously depends on the day, the short hair works one day, but the next, no contact runs, longer hair hits the mark, cant explain why, but thats how it is.

  

Nick, i get the theory, i really do BUT!!

in practice it has got to let you down, say you are at a lake with mixed stock, say mostly lower doubles 8 - 15lb with a smattering of clunkers up to 30lb.

now, you are targeting the larger carp but would welcome any scaley item on the hook so you start off with your hair at 2", you then get a couple of hours of beeps so assuming you are getting dropped by the smaller stock and gagging for some action you drop the hair down to 1".

straight away then you get a screaming take and eventually net a corker of a mid 20 but the hook is way at the back of the mouth.

 

now according to the hair length theory posited by yourself, that should never happen!!

 

 

A short hair won't allow the bait the freedom to be sucked in, so the hook doesn't even go into the mouth.

If the hair is long enough the hook will follow it into the mouth, then with that hook following the carp 'realises' a foreign object is attached or the bait has something with it it shouldn't, so attempts to blow that foreign object out, giving the chance for the hook to pr ick into the lip.

The hair needs to be long enough for the hook to be taken in in the first place.

 

yet it has and does quite often so what the hell am i missing here?

if this were so then the D rig, german, and all others that utilise ultra short hair or other mechanics would just not work and everyone would be on long hairs up to 4" long??

god help me