theobeeus Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I am new to the wonders of quick change hence new to tying loops in my hooklinks as opposed to swivels Before I begin, please refrain from telling me to tie a horrible little wire loop on my rigs, lol I tried them and binned the lot, I could not get them onto the swivels without tearing my fingers to pieces, and they also made an absolute dog's dinner of my bags in trying to pull them through.. anyway.. I am concerned about simple loop knots using braid. I don't want to tie a double loop or buly knot as I like I said want a neat knot to pull through the bag My main concern is strength of knot and suitability to braid. The braid I am using is strong (20lb) As I was tightening my new batch of rigs they seemed ok, but one did go at the loop knot using my pullers quite hard. That happened to be the braid that is softest of all that I was using, I don't mean weakest, but supplest. I really don't want to pull the lot apart as I tied loads. Shall I glue them? Please put my mind at rest. alfmartin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grangemilky Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I've always used a simple overhand loop with braid. Very small knot, and in my experience very strong., never had one fail. figure of 8 loop is a tad stronger, but a little more bulky, but I've never seen the need. Simple loop knot shoupd be more than sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 ok great thanks, just realised have a bad spool of braid though... grrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanksalot Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_NsAZtMXT4 nealjt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grangemilky Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 ok great thanks, just realised have a bad spool of braid though... grrrr What braid is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 blanksalot: that knot is too bulky mate but thanks. besides I explained in my post that I was asking for piece of mind not to re-tie all the rigs yet again. I have tied loads and changed them and at this point my head is getting frazzled. I am not retying again, just wanted piece of mind like I said I used to test out all my knots until I broke my scales doing that I have spent a firtune and fishing has been doing my head in a bit to be honest with you so like I said: thanks grangemilky for letting me know that as an experiennced angler you use a simple overhand loop with braid the braid that I have just had snap on me fairly easily won't be revealed, sorry. It is fantastic stuff that I like and I don't want to negatively advertise nor do I positively do so as in free advertising lol , I have contacted the manufacturer and am sure it might be a rare blip, I am not even sure it wasn't due to me pulling much harder than I thought I was with pullers, so am sending a smaple to the manufacturer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanksalot Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 If you have a faulty batch are you not going to have to retie them anyway? I've been using the perfection loops for years, never had one slip and is actually smaller than a overhand knot, tie one and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 If you have a faulty batch are you not going to have to retie them anyway? I've been using the perfection loops for years, never had one slip and is actually smaller than a overhand knot, tie one and see. the new batch of braid is faulty, but I think it is just the top layers as it is God knows how old, anyway the big set of rigs was done with the old good batch I just tried to tie that perfection loop thing with thin 15lb braid and it nearly drove me bonkers with how fiddly it is maybe I am a bit ham fisted but I have just glued all my overhand loops as I have had enough of fishing for the moment and the world of knots is giving me a headache right now to be honest I would test knots but like I said I broke a set of scales doing that so I am just going to go out tommorow, not worry about it and chuck my glued overhands at em. I can't imagine too many issues with the 15 and 20lb braids I am using, didn't have any issues last time so am going to just carry on, and if I do have issues then go back to swivels and grinners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 stop press, lol I wasn't happy with em so I dismantled the lot and learnt the perfection loop like all new knots it was very fiddly at first but is actually not hard to tie The links seem a lot stronger now I think the first few yards of the dodgy braid spool were a bit weak as they were exposed in a shop for a long time, but with the new knot as opposed to the simple overhand loop it is now behaving Whatever the problem was, I now have 6 (all that I could manage before going mad, I have literally spent, including the previous evening, about 7 hours fretting over and tying rigs and I am finally happy with them I think it is important to have confidence in what you are doing in all facets of carping and it all starts with the one thing that you can really control and that is rigs They are unbelievably simple, but ever so beautifully tied, sneaky, and neat, just the way I like to fish. Thanks for the advice. nealjt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 stop press, lol I wasn't happy with em so I dismantled the lot and learnt the perfection loop like all new knots it was very fiddly at first but is actually not hard to tie The links seem a lot stronger now... I would have ended up doing the same thing. Would have moaned and grumbled, said 'I'm not retying them', then sat and brooded and retied them all. ...I think it is important to have confidence in what you are doing in all facets of carping and it all starts with the one thing that you can really control and that is rigs ... And that's the exact reason why I would have ended up retying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 anyway they are brilliant now. I love learning a superior new not that improves something secific and doesn't strangle material and create potential risks It makes you feel like you are advancing and that all the fretting is worth it in the end for the sake of clarity I now have my rigs right, therefore head right, and can stop buying endless knick knacks and fish with far more confidence and efficiency It is worth fretting as it means you are working things out for yourself Fishing is about developing your own style and being pioneering If you are worried about your rigs not working and tangling it is because they are doing just that I now have 4 brilliant methods of almost completely perfect tangle free rig presentation, all done through a lot of hard work researching, fretting, wasting money, etc. but things can be very enlightening if you have a game plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I've always used a simple overhand loop with braid. Very small knot, and in my experience very strong., never had one fail. figure of 8 loop is a tad stronger, but a little more bulky, but I've never seen the need. Simple loop knot shoupd be more than sufficient. I did a lot of testing last night mate Yes overhand loops are strong as you say, and were probably more than fine for the mass of rigs I ended up retying, but I did notice a few times, especially with the more supple braids I use, that they kind of strangle the line and break at the knot under a lot of pressure. This pressure was at shark fishing levels as I am a fairly big fella, but nevertheless the overhands were always the ones to go, I didn't try figure of eights which are supposedly a bit stronger than overs, just tried new perfection loops which were way stronger than simple overhand, also tested the good old grinner to swivel which was the same thing, stronger than the overhand loop I shall be using the overhand as a bait stop only from now on. Edited March 23, 2014 by theobeeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanksalot Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 stop press, lol I wasn't happy with em so I dismantled the lot and learnt the perfection loop like all new knots it was very fiddly at first but is actually not hard to tie The links seem a lot stronger now I think the first few yards of the dodgy braid spool were a bit weak as they were exposed in a shop for a long time, but with the new knot as opposed to the simple overhand loop it is now behaving Whatever the problem was, I now have 6 (all that I could manage before going mad, I have literally spent, including the previous evening, about 7 hours fretting over and tying rigs and I am finally happy with them I think it is important to have confidence in what you are doing in all facets of carping and it all starts with the one thing that you can really control and that is rigs They are unbelievably simple, but ever so beautifully tied, sneaky, and neat, just the way I like to fish. Thanks for the advice. Fair play for having a go, if you ever use fluro or even mono for a hooklength use that knot , you'll be amazed how much straighter it sits theobeeus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I like the perfection loop but have it on good authority that the figure of eight is stronger. The tests were done with mono though and not with braid. I use the perfection loop with a thick stiff filament, but revert to figure of eight when using mono or a light fluro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanksalot Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I like the perfection loop but have it on good authority that the figure of eight is stronger. The tests were done with mono though and not with braid. I use the perfection loop with a thick stiff filament, but revert to figure of eight when using mono or a light fluro. Nige, i think most knots are up to it, i just tried a 15lb coated braid with an overhand one end, perfection the other, neither knot gives, it always breaks on the straight, i did it with a rig and the hook straightened ! if you were giving it that much force i think you'd be pulling for a break anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I never glue knots, superglue will cause lines and materials to fracture. As for a good loop knot to use, try this: http://www.kryston.com/articles/ultimate-knots/ Non Slip loop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I am sticking to the perfection loops now having dismantled all the (lots of em too) superglued overhand loop rigs I tied up (this is with fairly light braid we are talking about) as they are small and neat unlike a figure of 8 I had an overhand loop go on me with one of the braids I use, and the perfection loops seem a lot stronger, so that will do me, thanks for all the replies but I think sometimes things get too confusing cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I am sticking to the perfection loops now having dismantled all the (lots of em too) superglued overhand loop rigs I tied up (this is with fairly light braid we are talking about) as they are small and neat unlike a figure of 8 I had an overhand loop go on me with one of the braids I use, and the perfection loops seem a lot stronger, so that will do me, thanks for all the replies but I think sometimes things get too confusing cheers I'll give you fair warning, superglued knots are very bad in fishing, and it is not just my view, especially with braids, as Dave Chilton makes this comment on the Kryston DVD, and his company sell a fishing glue. What happens is the knot can't move or flex, the glue then breaks, but as the glue breaks it tears the braided material. Unfortunately I have proved this by accident on t-shirts and jeans when I have 'splodged', and the clothes then rip on the glue spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I'll give you fair warning, superglued knots are very bad in fishing, and it is not just my view, especially with braids, as Dave Chilton makes this comment on the Kryston DVD, and his company sell a fishing glue. What happens is the knot can't move or flex, the glue then breaks, but as the glue breaks it tears the braided material. Unfortunately I have proved this by accident on t-shirts and jeans when I have 'splodged', and the clothes then rip on the glue spot Like I said I binned my glued rigs. Ha ha yes it does make me laugh that he says 'don't ever glue rigs', yet they sell a rig glue. For the record I am not one to believe everything some big shot company manager tells me anyway. Edited March 23, 2014 by theobeeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theobeeus Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 All materials have different knots they prefer, add in different breaking strains and surface textures, and you have a quagmire of confusion right there. Like I said earlier in my thread, I used to test knots until my digitals packed up doing so. The thing to do is test them using your arms. If they go easy, bin em. And like I said, again, perfection loops seemed a lot stronger than simple loops, so again thanks for the input, but the old bonce is sorted now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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