paul80 Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hi guy Been reading a bit about the use of leaders, both the lead Core type and the newer safe type sold by Korda etc. Is there a safe way to make a leader that is easy for the fish to eject it after a main line breakage. I know with the Helicopter variety the hook link will easily fall off if the main line breaks but what about the running lead type. Obviously they can be made to easily eject the weight but whets to stop the fish swimming about with a yard of leader attached until it can eject the hook. Thanks for any help with this Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Paul, Is this any use? https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598 I don't want to really get into the whole debate again as I have posted so much about it in the past, but any thread that makes anglers consider what they are doing and fish welfare is always a worthwhile thread. My thoughts are that in most cases there is absolutely no need for a leader unless you are using it for absolute distance casting, and if there are any weed or snags, then bin it, use a safe mainline straight through, and accept that you can't fish as far out. I did start a thread last week about line visibility, so I have a funny feeling that much of what is purported to be true in reducing the visibility of end tackle may actually be a bit of a myth (https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=51785 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticmrfox Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Paul, Is this any use? https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598 I don't want to really get into the whole debate again as I have posted so much about it in the past, but any thread that makes anglers consider what they are doing and fish welfare is always a worthwhile thread. My thoughts are that in most cases there is absolutely no need for a leader unless you are using it for absolute distance casting, and if there are any weed or snags, then bin it, use a safe mainline straight through, and accept that you can't fish as far out. I did start a thread last week about line visibility, so I have a funny feeling that much of what is purported to be true in reducing the visibility of end tackle may actually be a bit of a myth (https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=51785 Nick, I value your help and advice on here above many others, as from reading through many of your posts you always have valid points to your discussions as well as doing plenty of research and tests to find facts to back them up... recently I have been drawn towards the leadcore leader for its pinning properties,. however for many reasons I'd prefer to keep away from it, one being that I like my hooklink to be the weaker link than the mainline so if in the event of a lost fish, it'll only be trailing maximum of 18" of line and no lead (all though I do use running rigs mostly and semi fixed rigs using tulip beads when method feeding etc so they're safe regardless of where the line breaks.) I would like my hooklink, line and rig to be as inconspicuous as possible and yet pinned to the bottom as well as possible to stop spooking fish, so I'm guessing that a flurocarbon hooklink would be best? would I benefit from using a flurocarbon leader for the duration my line would trail through the baited area to help keep it as hidden as possible, or benifit more from having a flourocarbon mainline all the way through to reduce the number of knots in my line? how would be best to pin this to the bottom whilst remaining safe? as bits of putty up the line at intervals would prevent the lead coming free wouldn't it? the world of leaders is new to me as I tend to fish nylon mainline through to a nylon hook link, and all though I have had results on this, I'm hoping to target bigger fish through the winter and into next spring and want to do everything I can to aid in hooking the more cautious lumps. so my question to someone who is of far greater experience than myself is, do you have any advice on how I can create an inconspicuous, strong rig that will pin nicely to the bottom yet remain safe? are there any mainline and/or hooklink materials you have found better than most for this you could advise me on? I am asking because I have recently been fishing with whatever I've had knocking around in my dads old tackle box, but I am hoping to join a syndicate next season, and will be getting a new tacklebox and filling it all with new tackle, and as I've been out of the loop so to speak for a fair while what is on the market now is quite daunting and confusing and the mags don't really portray anything safe, and are mainly one large, continuous advert!! I'm asking you because I know you value fish safety above all else and have tried and tested many items out there, and the main reason is you are unbiased! Sorry if this is a long post I'm just a bit lost with it all and thought you the best person I know of to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul80 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Thanks for the link salokcinnodrog, looks like I will be saving myself some money then. I actually already use Fluro for my hook lengths and main line, so think I will be sticking to it, but was just wondering as so many of the “TV” fishermen use leaders of some sort that I was starting to think there was more to it than I could see. Glad to see now that there is not. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorsey Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thanks for the link salokcinnodrog, looks like I will be saving myself some money then. I actually already use Fluro for my hook lengths and main line, so think I will be sticking to it, but was just wondering as so many of the “TV” fishermen use leaders of some sort that I was starting to think there was more to it than I could see. Glad to see now that there is not. Thanks Try to always bear in mind that most [if not all] of the "TV" fishermen are paid to write that they use all of their sponsor's tackle ................ even if they don't actually use it. It doesn't take too long to tie up some terminal rigs with leaders, clips, swivels, tubing etc etc, for the camera, when what is actually being fished with bears absolutely no resemblance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Paul, Is this any use? https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32598 I don't want to really get into the whole debate again as I have posted so much about it in the past, but any thread that makes anglers consider what they are doing and fish welfare is always a worthwhile thread. My thoughts are that in most cases there is absolutely no need for a leader unless you are using it for absolute distance casting, and if there are any weed or snags, then bin it, use a safe mainline straight through, and accept that you can't fish as far out. I did start a thread last week about line visibility, so I have a funny feeling that much of what is purported to be true in reducing the visibility of end tackle may actually be a bit of a myth (https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=51785 Nick, I value your help and advice on here above many others, as from reading through many of your posts you always have valid points to your discussions as well as doing plenty of research and tests to find facts to back them up... recently I have been drawn towards the leadcore leader for its pinning properties,. however for many reasons I'd prefer to keep away from it, one being that I like my hooklink to be the weaker link than the mainline so if in the event of a lost fish, it'll only be trailing maximum of 18" of line and no lead (all though I do use running rigs mostly and semi fixed rigs using tulip beads when method feeding etc so they're safe regardless of where the line breaks.) I would like my hooklink, line and rig to be as inconspicuous as possible and yet pinned to the bottom as well as possible to stop spooking fish, so I'm guessing that a flurocarbon hooklink would be best? would I benefit from using a flurocarbon leader for the duration my line would trail through the baited area to help keep it as hidden as possible, or benifit more from having a flourocarbon mainline all the way through to reduce the number of knots in my line? how would be best to pin this to the bottom whilst remaining safe? as bits of putty up the line at intervals would prevent the lead coming free wouldn't it? the world of leaders is new to me as I tend to fish nylon mainline through to a nylon hook link, and all though I have had results on this, I'm hoping to target bigger fish through the winter and into next spring and want to do everything I can to aid in hooking the more cautious lumps. so my question to someone who is of far greater experience than myself is, do you have any advice on how I can create an inconspicuous, strong rig that will pin nicely to the bottom yet remain safe? are there any mainline and/or hooklink materials you have found better than most for this you could advise me on? I am asking because I have recently been fishing with whatever I've had knocking around in my dads old tackle box, but I am hoping to join a syndicate next season, and will be getting a new tacklebox and filling it all with new tackle, and as I've been out of the loop so to speak for a fair while what is on the market now is quite daunting and confusing and the mags don't really portray anything safe, and are mainly one large, continuous advert!! I'm asking you because I know you value fish safety above all else and have tried and tested many items out there, and the main reason is you are unbiased! Sorry if this is a long post I'm just a bit lost with it all and thought you the best person I know of to ask No Problem. A few of my tied rigs are in this thread and are basically the white background pictures https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22185 All of the rigs I have tied in this thread have actually been used for fishing, and all have caught. When it comes to mainline, I use Daiwa Sensor Mono or P-Line Floroclear when I can get hold of it (available in USA and I have had to import it), and fish straight through. I have been using Anti-Tangle tubing over the last 30-45cms of mainline to prevent tangles and provide a bit of protection from snags and gravel, accepting that I will lose a bit of sensitivity with running leads and slack lines. Since I'm not 100% sure on whether the tubing is visible or not, looped or coiled up or not I have been adding a bit of weight to it. (My views on that have changed over time) To keep it down I use a small mouse dropping piece of putty, and shape it so that the putty allows the run ring to slide over it easily. This Running set up is pictured straight on my rods as I was retying rigs after replacing the Mainline. Running Rig with tubing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman24 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thought u said to joe that tubing was pointless and doesnt work which your using in ur rig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 no leader is carp safe really, in the event of a snap/crack off or whatever you want to call it the carp will be trailing hooklink plus leader, be it leadcore, fluro, fused plastic leaders. There all gonna be tethered to the carp, if you dont need to use them dont but if you do then do, thats just my take on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy1994 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 i do believe (other than helicopter set-ups of course) there a couple of products that make leadcore safer gardner multi clips being one, great little idea have used them with leadcore trim the tail rubber back and make the splice as small as possible and can't see why it wont work also i read in a mag a crafty way of fishing a inline safely with core' you put the first loop over the hard insert slide your hooklink down the other end and pull the other loop throught the lead slide a trimmed tail rubber down and job done! keep the leader short and the splice small again and there is another potential way of fishing leadcore safely! used this one for marginal fishing with and inline lead and works a treat. although i accept both ways are open to dispute some of the more experienced anglers will be able to expand more, quite happily fish mono straight through and use core' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefulcarping Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thought u said to joe that tubing was pointless and doesnt work which your using in ur rig He said its pointless as in the sense of that mainline is incredibly well hidden, on this thread Nick states he uses it for anti tangle purposes and not to camouflage his mainline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thought u said to joe that tubing was pointless and doesnt work which your using in ur rig Read it carefully, and so as to make my point clear, I have boldened my reason for using it: I have been using Anti-Tangle tubing over the last 30-45cms of mainline to prevent tangles and provide a bit of protection from snags and gravel, accepting that I will lose a bit of sensitivity with running leads and slack lines. i do believe (other than helicopter set-ups of course) there a couple of products that make leadcore safer gardner multi clips being one, great little idea have used them with leadcore trim the tail rubber back and make the splice as small as possible and can't see why it wont work also i read in a mag a crafty way of fishing a inline safely with core' you put the first loop over the hard insert slide your hooklink down the other end and pull the other loop throught the lead slide a trimmed tail rubber down and job done! keep the leader short and the splice small again and there is another potential way of fishing leadcore safely! used this one for marginal fishing with and inline lead and works a treat. although i accept both ways are open to dispute some of the more experienced anglers will be able to expand more, quite happily fish mono straight through and use core' No leadcore is safe, especially when you fish it with inline or pendant set-ups. The leadcore in those type of set-ups will ALWAYS trail behind the hooklink, there is NO WAY that the leadcore can be ejected. It is enough weight to hold a hook in and it only takes as little as 15cms, or 6inches, to be able to snag up on a branch, twig or weedbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy1994 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 fair enough nick, like i say both set-ups are open to criticism seemed like a good idea though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calixte19 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 All of us at one stage started somewhere in our carp fishing lives, and I think that it is sometimes easy to forget that there are beginners coming to the sport all of the time. Recently we have seen many people starting Carp fishing who have not had an apprenticeship from catching skimmers as a child under a father’s watchful eye to later, migrating to carp or another specimen species. This leads beginners to wonder “ where do I start ?” and often they start by pouring through the magazines for the latest wizz bang rig that uses £8 of swivels and tubing and then they end up blanking. They blank not through lack of enthusiasm but because they didn’t have the confidence to realize that simple is most likely better. Some of the rigs you see in the magazines have been designed for really specialized applications that 99% of us will never see. The cynic in me also suspects that they are to sell magazines and tackle . Carp fishing is all about confidence, confidence in your bait, tackle and rigs, in this article I want to cover some really basic rigs that I wish that I had known when I started carping some 24 years ago ( though with a 10 year break). A lot of what you will see here might have been covered by other anglers but I want to boil the rigs down to the very essence of what they need to be. Once you have gotten experience with these rigs feel free to move onto other more complicated rigs as if you have the basics right then you can’t go too far wrong. The rigs / methods I will be covering will catch you carp from almost any water from weedy to weedless, from close range to distance. They are: Basic mono rig Hybrid rig Basic running ledger rig ( plus lead core version) Bolt rig ( plus with lead core ) Inline lead ( also on lead core) I know that this is not an exhaustive list but if you are starting carp fishing and want to know where to start this is a good place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorsey Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 A running ledger, bolt rig or in-line lead should never be used with lead-core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 A running ledger, bolt rig or in-line lead should never be used with lead-core. I have accepted this thought with my fishing, yet I can't understand why Tackle Manufacturers still insist on selling set-ups like this when it is such a potential risk? It must be a case of money making over fish care and to heck with what anglers think. Unfortunately it means that many anglers are NOT fishing safely, or think that because it is available from shops it has to be safe... As I've said before, in my mind the only need for a leader is to fish at maximum distance, when giving it the biggun, a shockleader for casting. In that thought, the rig in the event of a break-off, or lost fish the only thing that should be trailing is the rig that can be ejected. If there are any snags, then a trailing leader becomes a risk, as does a lead that cannot be released, by a jammed up, overtightened tail rubber on a lead clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Well done nick bumping this thread . A little reminder never hurts ... Whatever happened to moorsey ? Miss his input . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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