androoooo

Doug...don't you have something like 15 different hook links? I'd be overwhelmed!

Doug.....will you have the hydrolink with you at horseshoe? I've been tempted to buy it but want to see what it's like first.

Btw it's also a good Pike water I the winter. I know they have new owners who have done a lot of work and made it safer. I haven't seen it since the changes but will pop and visit at some point to see what difference they've made but by all accounts they seem positive from what I've heard.

It's always been a carp/coarse fishery with good fish in. I've only coarse fished it and did a stint of work experience and help working for boyer leisure who owned it working with Tristan the baliff at the time. That was some 17 years a go. The lake is split up and has loads of bays and areas. It's a fair old walk round but I would think spending time to find them in that kind of water will play a significant part. You also have Thorney Weir on your door step and parts of the Colne round there due to flooding hold good carp. It's a shame I moved to Shropshire as the waters near Ruilsip where I'm from have some cracking fish in them.

Tim agree with you but one of the advantages with fishing a stiff material straight through is I don't feel the need to add any form of pva to prevent tangles. It's one of the rare instances I don't on the basis that I don't want the hook link to have any element of food on it. I'll also feed quite heavily around it with particle and pellet with the hard hook bait. Finding they preoccupy themselves on the soft items and soon give up on the hard hook bait. I've been told adding shell to the boilies can help as, when the krays begin to whittle it down the sound travels through water and can attract the carp to feeding activity. How true this is I don't know but the bait company I was using last year advised it and tweaked the mix accordingly.

Will certainly be interested to see what you decide to go with. I do fish a water that is infested with crays and it does mean sacrificing aspects that I like in a rig. I'm a big fan of combis usually with a short supple braid section tied to a soft fluoro. I like the rigidity of the fluoro with more natural movement near the hook. If I'm fishing for a length of time on the bottom I.e. without constant re-casting I'll tie a straight through mono or more typically soft fluoro hook link. I want to prevent the crays from tangling braid and the rig to present even after interference. So some form of rigidity is required so that it resets, it does mean doing away with the natural movement near the hook. I tend to top with plastic corn and will cut a groove to better bury the boilie stop to prevent it being pulled out. This usually means adding some weight to the hooklink so if the boilie is removed your fishing a popup instead but avoid putty preferring split shot as the crays seem to like the putty. Most of the time though I'll avoid boilies and fish a tiger with the boilie stop buried inside. I'll just tie simple knotless knot style. Nothing fancy but then none of my rigs are overcomplicated. Having thought about my rigs, the only other one I use is the multirig and I would consider this and may try it with the d section pulled tight and a supple hair attached to the rig ring and a small break in the coating to allow the movement I like, whilst retaining the all important rigidness and resetting properties I would want. Next time I'm out on the water, I'll be trying this.

I've used rigs similar, with a size 11 swivel. Used to put a pop up on by pushing onto the swivel. I've stopped using it in favour or rig rings. I found if you didn't tie it off the popup would come off and it was a pain to tie. I'd put a loop through the swivel with bait floss, fold over a latching needle and pull the push up onto the swivel then tie a stop to prevent the popup coming off. Most presentations you'd use to tie something to rig ring will work but haven't found it more effective than a rig ring.

Wayne, you're probably not that far from Stanwick lakes. An hour or so? Here's a little write up on swan which is one of the easier waters on the lake. http://www.carp.com/topic/19668-stanwick-lakes-swan/

I didn't use the marker, just the adjustable zig float to get depth. But if it's only 6 ft wouldn't bother. My only fish came on a 3ft length straight off the lead. I went with Reedy from here and despite the fish being in the upper layers, he had better success on the bottom.

Tim....I used the exact set up as blanksalot over the last two days. Only suffered one tangle, I only had the one fish and that came on a zig straight of the lead. But most fishing was done with the adjustables with the fish cruising through the swim in 10ft of water. Couldn't seem to buy a bite. Tried different depths and with nothing happening tried spodding over the top, twice landing on my zig and catching on the spod.

I fish a water with them in and the general advice I can give is. Fish stiff hook links - they'll leave braid tangled with their activity. Corkballs soaked in neat flavours as pop ups. Artificial baits Tigers Anything hard that they can't whittle down works. If you want to fish a soft bait tip with an artificial corn and add a shot to your hook link, so if they remove the soft bait the pop up corn doesnt start fishing 8 inch up in the water or however long your hook link is. Don't use lead putty they love it. I'm happy to fish over pellet and particle with the above. Yes it brings them in but their activity I think can bring the fish in. If you hook one and it's a signal cray which I'm guessing they are. Take the tail off and fish with it, can be very effective.

Fishbits I certainly wasn't being in a hump about it. If it came across that way then I apologise. Like you say a lot of people will use it without thinking. From your posts I certainly wouldn't think that of you. So wondered why you would call it a cop out if you're thinking about when and where to use it? The first post the guy admitted bhe hadn't used it because of the associations it had with people using it for every situation and admitting it had been an error. So again with this is mind if it works when used correctly why is it a cop out rig? I'd read about your problem on another thread and tried to point you to that thread to have a read thinking it would help with your present problem of losing fish being bumped by the lead.

http://www.carp.com/topic/16148-chods-fixed-or-running/ a little in this thread from Jemsue5 I remembered reading some time a go.

Fishbits not sure why you'd call it a cop out? It's an effective rig. The very first post in this thread should give you an idea that it's not a cop out. I'm only just beginning to use them, used one for the first time the other week to cast at showing fish. It might not have been the best rig but I could be confident it presented ok in amongst the weed. I'm pretty sure a few have mentioned this before and advice has been to use as light a lead as you can get away with. I'm sure I've also heard of people tying a weak link to attach the lead with the bottom bead being stopped by the swivel and bead. So you have some distance between lead and hook link.

Like I say mate, certainly not trying to knock you for wanting to go after them but the lakes are more difficult to fish. I will say throwing yourself in at the deep end can speed up your learning but there are a few who post on here who are relatively new and have struggled to catch and that gets disheartening. I coarse fished for 20+years before changing just under two years a go and trying to offer advice based on experience. By all means challenge yourself but maybe find a local club with some decent waters with a good head of carp and fish a place like cromwell every so often to challenge yourself and find out what areas of your fishing need improvement.

Scotty...sure you'll get loads. I know Cromwell is in that area and has a good head of decent fish. I have to admire your enthusiasm if you've just changed from general coarse to focus on carp. Most big fish waters can be difficult to fish, with lots of weed and fewer fish but those in there are bigger. I did the same after about 10 months of making the change and found myself way out of my depth. I'd personally suggest finding a lake with a good head of fish and getting used to your new gear and gain confidence in your rigs and approach. It will probably benefit you more longer term than jumping on a lake with big fish to begin. Handling fish of that size safely comes with practise so getting a few mid-high doubles first will help.

Tim just an inline float and running lead as per blankalots picture. The manufacturers have complicated it to make more money from it and the complexity probably makes it more prone to tangles. No need to fill with water as that's just for casting weight when surface fishing. Keep it simple, feather the cast and just make sure the float pops up. If the float doesn't pop up then you have a tangle.

Tim they are a little different from my experience. You don't fill them with water and ideally you want some kind of colour on the top so that you can see the float when it lands. A pike float does the job, a surface controller may if you can make it out at distance. I set mine up with the below. Running lead threaded on first. Line threaded through float and secured to swivel. Attach zig link, be sure to know the length of your hook link. Cast out. Tighten down, then let the bail arm off and let the float come to the surface. Tighten til the float is just going under hence needing to be able to see it. Reel in how ever many feet your hook link is. If it's four then from when the float goes under you need to take in four foot and the zig is on the surface. Then take in however much more you want to get the zig to the right height. Hope that helps.

It's not meant to be, it's just a general observation on life. We're all affected at a unconcious level by them music, colour etc all create a physiological response. To imagine anything different for animals would be wrong. For predators like pike it's quite often movement and vibrations. For carp the chemical change may stimulate a more primal urge to feed based on survival. When food is fresh and in abundance they may be more cautious. If it's that change in the makeup of the bait you're looking for then it would be done much better in lake water? I think most animals eating is driven by scarcity or abundance. It's why pre-baiting works and can be more effective when you stop feeding a day or two before, or creating competition by keep trickling in bait. A lot of whats been mentioned as examples of washed out baits working could be interpreted as scarcity. Now on different waters that scarcity or abundance may be created by other things. Naturals, anglers baits, stocking levels, angling pressure week days vs weekends, bait breakdown. If they have a lot of food, they may not be as opportunistic so the best way may be to think of little traps that are different to what's going on. A single in the margin almost like a discarded bait. These may be fed on more readily as they've generally always represented safe food. Now if that baits at the optimal point I guess it may be more attractive but as long as I knew fish patrolled that spot and maybe there were signs of feeding I'd be just as happy with a fresh one. One thing I do notice is that people tend to blame rigs and baits quite a bit for a lack of results. It tends to be easily remedied by buying the latest must have ingredient or rig item. It's easy for us to control as we can buy it. I'm not knocking people who understand bait and take the time to gain a deep knwoeldge but people who look at it as a quick fix rather than to work at understanding where fish visit or looking for signs of fish before setting up, I will accept the decision can be influenced by available swims. We can't control the fish all we can do is fish where they are, or likely to pass on their patrols.

I have done mooseman and seen your comments on this very subject. I still feel location is more fundamental than bait in catching and that's where my focus on my fishing is at the moment. the idea of a chemical change though makes more sense to me than texture or colour as to why fish may be more inclined to take a washed out bait but then it's not about it being washed out it's about it being more attractive. Whether we realise it or not everything we and animals perceive is through frequencies. Light, sound etc are all frequencies. Carp will have the same as well but will be more attuned to frequencies given of by their food. All living things emit a frequency and a change in chemical reaction means a change in the signals a bait is throwing off.

Nick in your last paragraph you mention the bugs and bacteria and breakdown of the bait. It's an interesting point as if that was the case then simply washing out in a pure water may not change the activeness of the bait. So if you were to employ it, would the best water be lake water to stimulate that breakdown? Which may actually make the bait more attractive from the natural breakdown? Is it this that may be mistaken for the effect of washed out baits? If it has the potential to make a bait more attractive with the breakdown then it's certainly worth a consideration to not replace the boilie as often.

I've also heard on the venue with them in, that if the matchmen catch one by accident they kill it and throw it in the swim. For some reason they say it puts the others off. Not sure how true it is but they say it works.

Frogy I don't know the lake but of there are crays I wouldn't worry about them to much. Plenty of ways to overcome them. One fishery near me has loads in and I can get round it. A few ideas below. Fish a tiger nut over particle, whilst you'll get them trying to get the bait they soon give up as it's too hard. Corkball popups soaked in flavour. Maize fished over particle, whilst soft they'll pick up other items first or at least seem to. If fishing anything soft recast every few hours and I've found tipping with plastic corn and placing a shot on the hook link just in case they remove the boilie means that you at least your fishing if they remove the boilie. Don't use the lead putty, they love the stuff. Use a stiff hook link like fluorocarbon. Braid they'll tangle like crazy. You can always try zigs or surface fishing as well.

Nick like you say washed out baits may only work in certain circumstance. Trying to pinpoint when and where would drive a person insane. I think to often we link a change in bait or rig to a capture and draw the wrong conclusions. For people who can spend the time testing/fishing a water over a prolonged period they may find they can. Only for the theory to blow later. I still think the biggest change anyone can makr is location. Most good anglers I hear will say location is 90% of catching the fish. So any improvement in location is worth more than a tweak to a bait or rig. If you have a bait you know fish eat and a rig that presents ok and you know how to adapt it to what's on the bottom then the biggest single change most can make is where they are fishing.

I would also tend to agree with Liam. Not because it 'could' be a factor but lots of things can affect whether feed fish and trip up. Stephen mentions fishing Monday/Tuesday after a weekend. Bites may dry up over the weekend due to pressure not the bait being used and they feel happier feeding when there is less bank side commotion. It could be big beds put them off for a while. Who really knows there are a lot of factors at play. If it's trying to capitalise on weekend syndrome you might have more success roaming looking for signs of feeding fish and putting a single bait, stringer or stick to them. Walk round on the weekend and see whether you can see where big beds are going out so you know where they may be feeding. Maybe fish a washed out bait against a new one to see whether there is a difference if you really want to test it. There are no wonder rigs or bait and the only thing you can guarantee is that you can't catch what's not in front of you. Maybe even more so if you've washed out a lot of the attractants.