salokcinnodrog

I must add to the Tubing Debate. I think that what scares fish as has been mentioned is the tightness of the Line or tubing. I use Leadcore on 2 of my rods and Solar Tubing on 1. Strangely enough I have had 4 Carp from my Reservoir on Leadcore, compared to 1 on Tubing. Not very substantial odds I know, but of all the Bream I have caught as well I think only 2 have come on the Tubing Rod, compared to 50 odd on Leadcore. I have checked the tubing in the Margins, and it is the same colour as the weed and with a dash of Lead wire on the end it sinks flat to the bottom and can't be distinguished from the bottom. Leadcore also sinks straight to the bottom, but in the slightly siltier water at depth takes on the silt, so actually sinks into it. After retrieving it and going out to compare the 2 in the water neither could be seen against the bottom, but the tubing could be felt against the hand, yet not the Leadcore. In terms of rigs that give best indications for us Carp Anglers who have to sleep sometime, I think the Running Lead and Slack Line approach is by far the best option if possible. In Weed I know what the majority of Anglers say, that they need a Semi Fixed Lead, either on a Lead Clip or tied on, but I have had no problem with Running Leads. I have had no snagged fish, no lost leads and no problems playing fish through weed and also received instant indication at the buzzer. As Jemsue says though if the Fish are confident in your Bait, and the rig you are using is effective then you should not need the most complicated rig just beccause it is fashionable. Look at the damage the Bent Hook rig did to "Our" Fish. The rig was designed for particular feeding on a particular water, then got taken out of context and severely damaged many fish when it was used willy nilly. We have many things we can play around with on a standard rig, hair length, rig length, are just 2. With changing just those 2 things we could probably hook the majority of the Carp in the Waters we have today.

Nice price, glad I wasn't here this week, or I would have been bidding against you. lol:D If you get In Pursuit of The Largest, be careful, as there are some "dodgy" copies about, that have half a chapter repeated and 1 missed out altogether..

I freely admit that a lot of the time I do experiment with rigs to find out what works in any given situation, as Steve (ripslider) does. I know that with Paternoster that indication is far improved over most other types of Lead Fixings. I also know you have to be awake and aware sat next to your rods to use it. I'm currently working on a way to make extending hooklengths work on a particular lake that is Heavily Match Fished, where the Carp are very cute. Where the Method is treated with disdain and where heavy baiting is the kiss of death. Just to throw a spanner into the works again. The rig I have caught most of my fish on this season is.... Plain Basic Hair rigged and Freelined Mixer. lol:D Nick

Mono hooklength, knotless knotted to hook with a hair. Takes about 2 minutes to tie and is easy to use with either particles or boilies.

lol The Bolt Rig was originally fished Minus the Hair Rig I think. It predated it by a couple of years(?) As for the Hair Rig I thought it was Brenda Maddocks who supplied the original hair, but Patos could be right. The idea of the Bolt Rig as its name suggests was to make the Fish Panic and give proper runs. Unfortunately at the time, fishing had got very difficult as the fish would just sit and twitch the indicators (sound Familiar), so a New rig was required that would go back to Screaming Runs. :D

Bolt Rig: To Bolt, as in to run away in panic. Yes, somebody has tried a Bolt on the line as a weight, but for a slightly different reason. Tied on with light line, in weedy or snaggy waters, to prevent the losing of 'expensive' leads. ;)

I have checked my Leadcore Leaders on my Reservoir and got them to lie flat along the bottom of the Lake. That's checking on a 40 yard cast to the edge of the bay opposite. You really need to allow very slack lines to get this, although a downward slope does help hide it anyway. As for tubing I recently took the trouble to check my Solar Tubing in the Margins, with a piece of Leadwire on the end you could not distinguish it from the bottom and the Weed as it was lying so flat.

Tell you what, I'll stick to my Snakebite and Super Mantis. :D

Pva is useful for many reasons. It reduces tangles when used as a Bag or as a Stringer, it prevents weed from catching the hook. When used as a bag or stringer it does reduce distance, but unless you are fishing at your extreme range then I think the advantages far out weigh the disadvantges. You get FreeBait around your Hookbait, as you can with a Method Ball of Groundbait, You reduce tangles and you make your hookbait more attractive to Carp. I use PVA in some form or another nearly every cast, even with Floater Fishing.

I believe Rod Hutchinson originally described Stack Rigs as Greedy Pig rigs. One reason for there use is as an Anti Eject rig! Stack rigs can be fished in a number of different ways. They also prevent to a certain extent the hook sinking into the silt/weed, leaving the bait on the surface of the bottom of the lake. In Winter I often put 3 or 4 8mm baits on a hair, with a cork ball as the second bait from the top, just to provide a bit of lift. The Carp are often more comfortable feeding on small items in the winter and will often pick up plenty of mini Boilies when they'd only pick up 1 18mm Bait. I fish this on a Size8 hook The other way is to have 3/4 normal size boiled baits on the Hair with a pop-up bait providing the lift from the bottom, works well for Bigger fish if they are comfortably feeding on loads of bait. Hook size on this is normally a size6 or 4. It can also be fished with Particles, in fact many people do so without realising that they are fishing stack rigs. 1 popped up grain of Maize and a sinking piece is in fact a simple stack rig 'of sorts'. Adam, I often used to attach 2 boilies together with PVA or Spaghetti to keep the baits really close and get the Carp used to finding 2 baits together and then fish 2 on the Hair. Also they then can't twig which ones are attached to the hook. I think that makes sense.

I use Shrink Tubing on the majority of my rigs. I found that with it I can get well presented Line Aligners. As for types of Tubing I have used Carp-R-Us and Fox Tubing quite happily with No problems. I don't worry about the colour of the tubing. I just buy what is available in the Tackle Shop when I need to get some more. If you are fishing on the bottom can you see a piece of brown tubing in a weedbed, it doesn't look out of place, a green piece of tubing on a gravel or sandbar just looks like a long small stone on the Lakebed. Clear tubing has no difference to making it more invisible on the bottom of the Lake as far as I can see.

I must admit I have not noticed any damage on Carp that I have landed from Leadcore, although 1 common did have a couple of marks on it, and 2 missing scales. The damage wasn't fresh, and it had a previous hook mark in the mouth. I can't give a definitive answer on fish damage with Leadcore. I wonder is it down to playing them hard and then the sudden change of direction, in which case line with no tubing on could cause as much damage.

I've been using ESP Leadcore, never had a problem with the Lead pushing through the outer braid. When it comes to tubing vs Leadcore, I have been fishing Leadcore on 2 rods and Tubing on 1. I have swapped rods around onto the same areas so that each rod has a fair chance. On 1 Leadcore rod I have 60cms of Leadcore, on the other I have 120cms of Leadcore. The tubing rod is Korda Khaki tubing of 60cms. The 2 Leadcore rods I have had more takes than on the tubing rods, that includes Bream takes as well. On 1 water I have caught 1 Carp and 1 Bream on the tubing. On the Leadcore rigs, my takes have been roughly equal, and I have had 4 Carp and 12 Bream. Not conclusive I know, but I think that tubing does not lie as comfortably and flat across an uneven lake bed like Leadcore. Also there is the possibility of Reflection.

Just for the Record when I fished last night and had 2 carp and 1 bream all of the fish were hooked on a Slack Line Running rig. The first Carp didn't run, I don't think that on a 9inch hooklength it actually knew it was hooked until I struck on 3 bleeps of the Delkims. Incidentally I have my Clutches set very tight, so I can try to pull the Carp off balance. This Carp was hooked on a 9inch hooklink, line aligned and the hair was only about 24mm long, with an 18mm boilie, allowing just 6mm of travel. The rig material was Super Mantis and the Running Lead was 3 oz The 2nd Carp was hooked on a fluorocarbon hooklink of 9inches with a hook line aligned and a D-rig. The swivel end had a loop on it and the bait was an18mm boilie and half a Squid and Octopus 14mm pop-up on the hair loop to sit it nicely on the weed Carpet.. Again taken on a slack line and 3 oz Running Lead. Now in theory both these rigs are complicated. Both were fished over a previous Baited Patch that I think was just the smell remaining in the bottom until I topped it up with a couple of PVA bags of boilies and Pellets.

I use Kryston end Tackle for my Braids. Try one of their Super Braids, like the SuperMantis, SnakeBite or SnakeSkin. You can remove the outer coating to give you a supple inner that is very soft and supple. If you leave a length of the outer coating further up , you also have a fairly tangle free rig. Tie an loop Overhand knot in the end of the Braid and then attach your hook via the Knotless Knot. Attach to the swivel with either a Uni, Grinner or Palomar Knot. If you are not sure of your knots practice until you get it right.

Quote by Ripslider "It's like I said on the distant days of the top of page two. There are times when the heavy, short linked shock/bolt rig is a better way of fishing." Steve, while I agree with you on most of that I don't think that the Heavy Lead 'n' Short Link is a better way of Fishing. I agree with the Heavy part, but I think that Short Links with a Heavy lead result in a lot of Fish being lost, either due to Hookpulls in the fight or in the Fish being wary of the End Tackle. If the fish is lost in the fight on a short Hooklink, I think that the bounce with the Lead so close to the Carps mouth results in the hook being bounced out. I actually lost a Carp last night on a Short Link with a Heavy lead, the first time in ages I have dropped below 7inch hooklink. It is also the 1st Carp I have lost in about 3 years due to a hookpull. As for being awake having to strike with either a Fixed Paternoster or Running Lead again you are right. It is that having to strike with a proper Running Lead or Paternoster that put many Anglers off. I don't class as a Running Lead a lead that can run free but with a tight Line. By definition the lead is not able to run when the line is tight to the rod tip and reel. You are creating a Fixed Point in the Tackle. Please note I have corrected my Error in my Previous post, I missed out 2 important letter on my comment about Resistance

LOL :D I tried that on Thursday. 5kilos of pellets, followed by 4kilos of boilies with a Throwing stick. Think thats bad I only had 1 bream over 2 nights.

The original Hair Rig set-up consisted of a hooklink less than 0.6m (2ft) with a size 4 hook and a hair of 5-7.5cm (2-3in). It was designed to eliminate the sucking and blowing of baits , that occur even with free baits. What made the hair successful was that hard baits were used , the bait having to be taken to the back of the Carp's mouth to be crushed. There are 3 places that a hair can be attached to the hook and my theory of what happens. 1) From the eye, 2) Off the Bend, 3) Along the shank. A hair swinging from the eye of the hook will be fine when the hook and bait are blown out, but on sucking or picking up could actually hook outside the mouth or not entering at all. A hair attached to the bend of the hook will definitely be sucked in the right way, but when blown out the hook will be turned in the mouth, exiting bait and bend first, with little chance of the hookpoint catching. A hair attached to the shank of the hook I think ensures that the hook goes in the right way , bend first, and when ejected it will pivot round trying to force the hook out eye first, thus hooking in the Carps lip. Now in modern fishing the hair has become shorter to become the Ultimate Bolt/Anti Eject rig. The hair is normnally now around 1/2 to 1inch long. In addition the hooklength has now become shorter, now between 6-9inches long. The short hair, short link and tight line all contributing to the fish hooking itself when it tries to spit out the hook. However this short hooklink/short hair and tight line approach mean that the only indications of takes are those in which the Carp have hooked themselves. Sucking fish, I have watched and checked other research, suck from as much as 6inches away from the bait. Baits that are on a short hair will spring back as the hair reaches its full length. This suck is often powerful enough to register a twitch on the indicator. Now I agree with Steve that the best way of de-registering resistance is to minimise the lead attached directly to the line. (Work That one out). If you can change the hair length to something that the Carp are not expecting, maybe going back to the original concept of the hair in its confidence rig scenario with a paternoster, then you should have excellent indication, no resistance and extremely confused and more hooked Carp.

Erm... yes. Sorry I scanned it straight out of a book

I thnk the problem with the short rigs is that Carp aren't actually getting the bait to the back of their throat to crush it down. We are trying to hook them the second they pick up the bait, whereas with the longer rigs we could be getting more strikeable indications by allowing the Carp to actually get the bait right back. If the Carp are testing baits by rolling them around then the short hooklink is going to give less movement and at the same time give us that twitch/bleep that means 'you've been done'. The longer hooklength gives the bait freedom to move and then the Carp can move off with the hook unable to use the Lead as a resistance point. If we take this a little further, if you hook a Carp at the edge of the lips and have hookpulls on occasional fish then the hooklink or hair is probably too short. If we can get the bait to the back of the Carps throat we are giving ourselves more time to get a strikeable indication.

I'm going to try this Long hooklength out on a couple of waters. On one there are some very cute Carp, that are extremely rig shy, in very clear water, although the biggest in the lake is only about 14lb. The other is reliant on baits but quite cloudy. I'll try with and without the Superstiff to see what the Carp can/can't get away with on both waters. On the longer hooklength I'm still convinced that we may get better runs as the Carp won't understand what is happening, being used to pull for resistance at say 6inches. Just thinking that if it is possible to pin down loops, then Silkworm and Merlin may be good hooklengths in longer lengths, even BFA Deception which is exceptionally thin. I think that the majority of Carp are hooked when they pick up the Bait, then move far enough to straighten the hooklink. Now if the Danger Radius is 6-9inches then in that 6-9inches the Carp will move with extra caution so they can stop and shake the hook out if they get pricked. Tim Paisley wrote in To Catch A Carp when he went back to hooklinks of 45cm (15inch) he caught more bigger Carp. Another point he mentioned is that more Carp are lost on shorter hooklinks. The point is that the Carp are only lightly hooked around the edge of the lips, because the Bait is not taken far enough into the fishes mouth, due to this the hook can work out more easily during the fight. Now this long hooklink theory starts to be borne that if the Carp are inspecting and playing with the hookbait then a long hooklength gives them more to play with and you have given them less chance of identifying the hookbait from the freebies. It also means that the bait can be taken further back into the Carp's mouth giving a better strikeable indication. God this is getting too much, all this thinking. lol:confused: :D

I think that with most people fishing short hooklengths the Carp are being conditioned to feeling for the lead at ,say, 6inches. With a longer, softer hooklength the Carp are not feeling the Lead until they have moved a long way. Also a bait on a long hair and long hooklength will behave more naturally in the water if the Carp is sucking and blowing. My theory is simply that a Carp that has to move 2 foot with the bait to get to the next one. The Carp are picking up and are unable to use the Lead to free the hook from their mouth as I think they can with a short mono/fluorocarbon (stiff) hooklength. I also don't think that with a long supple braid hooklength the Carp will necessarily realise that there is a hook attached until it moves to the lead. Would this give us better indications? As for single baits or baits that are far apart I'm not 100%sure, I know what I'm thinking, but can't necessarily explain it. I was thinking I think that a long hooklength with a long hair can be picked up by both suckers and picking up Carp, whereas a short hooklength can only be picked up by Picking up Carp. In terms of your answer I don't think you've misssed the point, I'm playing with everyones answers to get my mind thinking over presentations for Fish. Like you I'm sure that at some point I've contradicted myself, but just want to see if the theory is as good as it seems to be in my head.

Confidence (Long) rigs I think are best when the Baits are further apart or even single baits. I mean if a fish has to move 2foot plus to get to the next Boilie(?) then a 23inch long hooklength will catch that fish out (in theory). Problem is as you stated, how can we get a Hooklength material that the fish can't detect? Fluorocarbon or mono because of their inherent stiffness will create resistance. Add into that a long hair maybe 2 inches long, going back to the original Lennie Middleton idea you have something that hardly anyone fishes. With the changing of the length of the hair you create some very unusual situations that the Carp can't work out. I.e. A long hooklength, changing the length of the Hair. If you consider that to crush and eat the bait then a Carp has to take it to its Pharyngeal teeth some 4inches into its mouth. Again after watching fish feed on PVA bags where its 1 mouthful of food then a short hooklength will work. The Carp is just getting a mouthful of food then, bang, in goes the hook into the lip. The majority of Anglers are all fishing hooklengths of 6-9 inches long and Fluorocarbon seems to be the fashion at the moment. Most anglers are using the hair so that the bait is resting against the shank. I'll try to be different, if everyone fishes Fluorcarbon hooklengths then I'll stick with my 10-12 inch braid lengths with a proper hair.

The same rig I use for all of my Fishing.

I know the Shockleader knot In the shock leader tie an Overhand knot, but don't pull it tight. Thread the mainline through the knot and then loop it round the shockleader a minimum of 6 times. Then back up through the loop. Hope this diagram comes out ok